FL - Somer Thompson, 7, Orange Park, 19 Oct 2009 #31

[Kimberlyd125]

I see what you are saying, and I personally would be OK with my tax dollars being spent for this. I'm just saying that I don't blame the school system for Somer's death. The only one who could have prevented it for sure is the KILLER, not the school. If Somer roamed the neighborhood after school, she would have done that after she got off the bus too had she been bused to her front door.

Chances might have been taken and poor choices made by letting those kids take care of themselves and roam the neighborhood, but the KILLER is the one who could have prevented it with absolute 100% certainty. We don't know yet who that person is and we may never know, but I don't think the school not providing a ride for Somer caused her death in any way. JMO

ITA with this. The killer killed Somer, the school system didn't.
The fact is, we don't know now or will we ever know if a bus ride would have made a difference. But, I think a bus should be provided. JMO

 

[trigger]

It has disappeared off the face of the earth......I say she must know something......I don't think she was sitting there next to the sheriff for no reason at all....there were many neighbors and friends....why her? what could she know??

I think it was on NG...But NG website wasn't working for me on my computer..I think its a conspiracy...LOL..Oh i'll look at her transcripts later.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Thanks for your kind and intelligent answer.
I'll go by reason of common sense. (1) Somer had a history of running off, documented by witnesses who reported it; (2) Somer had one or more fights with child(ren) either in class, at school, on the way home (various reports); (3) Somer was teased a lot (reported by mom); (4) Somer's sister chastised her regarding her fight(s); (5) there was no documented evidence of adult(s) being at home when the children arrived; (7) it is highly likely that Somer's family, friends and teachers knew about these things and one or more may have intervened, talked to the child about not running away; (8) if she was fighting more than a few times at school, she would have been called to the principal's office and/or a note written home and/or conference called with parent. Somer may have had 1-1 guidance or tutoring or even been put in in-school suspension for her fighting. That would account for some of the confusing information about just when she left school grounds, if she was held over.

SO although we do not have access to Somer's school records, the situation and school protocol point to the distinct probability that that the child could have been helped. This makes the rumor unsubstantiated, but HIGHLY likely that after school care would have been suggested.

Finally, since DT and others have stated that neighbors were counted on to "watch" the kids (was that on the walk home or when they arrived there), it is likely that DT was comfortable with that arrangement and may have turned down after school care.

?? LIKELY???

you have stated many times here that DT "turned down" after school care as if that was a fact...and I personally thought well maybe she didn't like the terms of the after school care...like some of those programs want them there every day, same time and it seems her schedule/routines were..."flexible" or variable?

but now...you say this was just your "common sense"?? and it was simply "likely"?? "may have turned down"??

sorry but I prefer facts stated as facts and rumors as rumors...I feel this whole thread is very confused

another point : THE MUST BE "16" STATEMENTS>...they only must be 16 to WORK in childcare facility/business....that is far different from the FACTUAL post that someone else posted regarding the actual law here in Florida regarding kids walking home alone/being home alone etc

 

[Noway]

I think the age 16 might have been as daycare personnel. Now I don't remember.

I did just find something that for screening purposes, children 12 and older are considered personnel.

Went to this link
http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/childcare/laws.shtml


And on page 8 of this link
http://ccrain.fl-dcf.org/(X(1))/documents/1/29.pdf#nameddest=402.26

Child care personnel ...

... For purposes of screening, the term includes any member, over the age of 12 years, of a child care facility operator's family, or person, over the age of 12 years, residing with a child care facility operator if the child care facility is located in or adjacent to the home of the operator or if the family member of, or person residing with, the child care facility operator has any direct contact with the children in the facility during its hours of operation.

But IIRC, it was something from the Florida statutes about being 16 ...

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Yes, I worked in childcare for many years as a preschool teacher. Here in Louisiana, you can work in a daycare setting at 16 but must have an adult in the room/area with you at all times. Most high school kids would work as an aide. There was always an adult there.

Also, I believe the minimum age of 16 in daycare is also due to child labor laws. Must be 16 to work IIRC.

But, as far as babysitting, FL has no min age as far as I can find.

 

[eyes4crime]

This information was posted on another thread by our mod...hope it helps!!!!!!

This is what Tricia (WS owner) says about posting rumors:

"If you are a local and you have heard a rumor that is not ridiculous post it clearly as a rumor.

"I won't check if you say you are a local. This is different than saying you know the family.

"If this doesn't work out because people start relying on rumors or repeating rumors as fact we will change it back [to no rumors allowed at all]."

And, as always, if you pick up a fact or a rumor from a media source, you must include a link to it.

Thanks,

Hoppy
mod
__________________
Away from computer May 16-29, 2009.

 

[Noway]

(6) Babysitting.
(a) Babysitters shall be at least sixteen years of age or older and shall be screened by securing a Florida Department of Law Enforcement name check, a child abuse and neglect records check through the Statewide Automated Child Welfare Information System , and a local criminal check.

...

(e) Babysitting by sixteen to eighteen year olds will not include more than three children.

http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/publications/fsp/fsdr/65C-13.pdf

More at link

ETA: Just thinking that if AB's babysitter was 16-18, she could not have watched the three Thompson children and AB's daughter, KB.

 

[sorrell skye]

BBM

From what I read at the following link, AT watching her younger siblings at home is not illegal in Florida.

Some states have a bright line definition which specify in age (e.g. 12 years old) when it is legal to leave children alone. The majority of states, including Florida, do not establish a specific age.

sbm

Kimberly - I'm quoting a portion of your post, but want you to know in advance that I'm not disagreeing with your post in any way with what I'm about to say. Your post just fueled some thought for me - thank you! I appreciate your commentary, and everyone else's, because you & everyone here challenges me to see things from another perspective. Not to mention I get sick & tired of my own ragged, worn-out thoughts sometimes!

Yes, it's true that many states don't have a law on the books regarding the legal age for children to be home unsupervised. Personally, I'm glad. Competent parents should be free to make their own decisions regarding their own children. As far as I'm concerned, we have enough laws, both state & federal, that dictate how we conduct our lives.

But I would like to raise the question to everyone:

Should responsible citizens look to the State to make all their decisions for them? If the State (for whatever reason) doesn't impose its guidelines on individuals & parents as to how to conduct themselves (regarding any matter, including the supervision of children or anything else), then are we to assume that any or all behavior that falls outside the purview of established law is responsible behavior? And if there is no law allowing or forbidding certain behavior, then are we to blame the State for our own misguided choices because lawmakers failed to impose upon us their idea of how we should conduct ourselves?

When did we relinquish our rights (as citizens) to the State to make all our choices for us? I know I haven't - and never will - regardless of whether or not there is a law telling me right from wrong, legal or illegal, responsible or irresponsible.

I make my own decisions - both for myself & for my children when they were of the age that required me to make decisions for them, until they could learn to make their own decisions. I am responsible for the consequences of my own decisions, regardless of laws or the lack thereof.

With freedom (i.e. absence of laws restricting behavior & choices) comes the burden of responsibility to make the right choices, both in our personal self-interests & in the interests of others, for the good of all.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

(6) Babysitting.
(a) Babysitters shall be at least sixteen years of age or older and shall be screened by securing a Florida Department of Law Enforcement name check, a child abuse and neglect records check through the Statewide Automated Child Welfare Information System , and a local criminal check.

http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/publications/fsp/fsdr/65C-13.pdf

More at link

Looks like that is for licensed child care providers.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

sbm

Kimberly - I'm quoting a portion of your post, but want you to know in advance that I'm not disagreeing with your post in any way with what I'm about to say. Your post just fueled some thought for me - thank you! I appreciate your commentary, and everyone else's, because you & everyone here challenges me to see things from another perspective. Not to mention I get sick & tired of my own ragged, worn-out thoughts sometimes!

Yes, it's true that many states don't have a law on the books regarding the legal age for children to be home unsupervised. Personally, I'm glad. Competent parents should be free to make their own decisions regarding their own children. As far as I'm concerned, we have enough laws, both state & federal, that dictate how we conduct our lives.

But I would like to raise the question to everyone:

Should responsible citizens look to the State to make all their decisions for them? If the State (for whatever reason) doesn't impose its guidelines on individuals & parents as to how to conduct themselves (regarding any matter, including the supervision of children or anything else), then are we to assume that any or all behavior that falls outside the purview of established law is responsible behavior? And if there is no law allowing or forbidding certain behavior, then are we to blame the State for our own misguided choices because lawmakers failed to impose upon us their idea of how we should conduct ourselves?

When did we relinquish our rights (as citizens) to the State to make all our choices for us? I know I haven't - and never will - regardless of whether or not there is a law telling me right from wrong, legal or illegal, responsible or irresponsible.

I make my own decisions - both for myself & for my children when they were of the age that required me to make decisions for them, until they could learn to make their own decisions. I am responsible for the consequences of my own decisions, regardless of laws or the lack thereof.

With freedom (i.e. absence of laws restricting behavior & choices) comes the burden of responsibility to make the right choices, both in our personal self-interests & in the interests of others, for the good of all.

ITA - my post was in reponse to a post that said the legal age was 16. Just trying to find it and found that there was no legal age. I was trying to dispell a rumor. lol
But, I do agree with what you are saying.

 

[Noway]

Looks like that is for licensed child care providers.

I didn't know if FL distinguished between daycare providers and babysitters. They use both terms.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Noway, I'm gonna go back and read it again. I found they use both terms too. BRB

ETA: I've looked over/skimmed the first 21 pages and it does appear this document applies to licensed home based types of daycares. Will continue to skim.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Noway:

It appears the document from that link does apply to licensed home daycares. So, if I lived in Florida and open a daycare out of my home, I would have to comply with the terms of this document. And, all workers would have to be 16 or older. (the document seems to refer to workers as babysitters in several sections)

 

[Noway]

Where is all this leading us in Somer's case? I'm lost.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

We were discussing if it was legal for AT to watch her siblings IIRC.

 

[New1]

This information was posted on another thread by our mod...hope it helps!!!!!!

This is what Tricia (WS owner) says about posting rumors:

"If you are a local and you have heard a rumor that is not ridiculous post it clearly as a rumor.

"I won't check if you say you are a local. This is different than saying you know the family.

"If this doesn't work out because people start relying on rumors or repeating rumors as fact we will change it back [to no rumors allowed at all]."

And, as always, if you pick up a fact or a rumor from a media source, you must include a link to it.

Thanks,

Hoppy
mod
__________________
Away from computer May 16-29, 2009.

I think the one who posted about DT being offered after school care IS a local, and she has posted some rumors and clearly stated that they were rumors when she posted them. However, she has said that she KNOWS for a fact that DT was offered free after school care and declined it. You all have a choice of whether to believe her or not. I also have that same choice, and I DO believe her.

 

[Noway]

We were discussing if it was legal for AT to watch her siblings IIRC.

If it was okay that AT babysit her siblings, then does it negate the theory that Diena made up that SP was there to babysit so that she wouldn't be in trouble for the kids being home without an adult?

Assuming there were no other legal stipulations regarding the kids. I don't know if there would be something in the custody agreement ...

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The issue here IMO is not whether you believe her or not. The issue is that this rumor has been repeated over and over by not only Sad (who has said she will not tell how she knows, which is her right and I totally respect that), but now it's being stated as fact from other posters.

That's how things get so confused IMO. After a rumor is stated as fact over and over, members and guests start thinking it is a fact and that changes things a good bit on certain issues. IMO

So, I think there is nothing wrong with stating the information, just state it is rumor when you refer to it. YKWIM.

 

[Noway]

Not easy finding the answer to this as a parent. (I'm looking in Montana so that I could maybe find the compatible law for FL.) Did find this online.

Most states do not regulate the age that a teen must be to be allowed to baby-sit. Illinois and Maryland do have rules that govern babysitting, and other states have considered or are considering similar legislation. In addition, if the teen will be babysitting for you for more than 20 hours a week on a regular basis, minimum wage and other employment laws may kick in.

http://www.thelaboroflove.com/articles/what-is-the-legal-age-a-teen-can-start-babysitting/

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I agree NOway, very confusing.