FL - Somer Thompson, 7, Orange Park, 19 Oct 2009 #33

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Thank you Dr. Fessel for finding that video. I knew it was out there, and the grainy, jumpy shots are just what I remembered. The only difference is that when DT is making the statement on this video, they are showing a picture of Somer. In the video I saw, DT was emerging into the crowd and saying, "this has been a hard day", or something like that, followed by the now infamous statement about the viewing.

It is so hard, so hard when we having nothing to go on except analyzing statements here and there by various persons, trying to piece together the meaning of things. One of the reasons, IMO is the high-visibility of DT from the beginning, the emotional impact of the community's involvement, the early ruling out of RSO's, and the sheriff's refusal to release any details of whether she had been sexually assaulted. This all leads to the "everyone is a suspect except (the sheriff)" theory. Then you have to consider every possible scenario, including possible complicity by someone close to Somer. What other choice is there, unless you make an assumption based on your observation that the involvement of a family member is "unthinkable" - and we know, sadly, that this is often not the case.

The fact is that, for whatever reason - to keep Somer's memory alive, etc. - DT has put herself out there so strongly has left strong impressions (good OR bad) on people. The only other cases I can recall where a parent has been so visible for so long is when they were suspected (Ramsey, Anthony, etc.), whereas, in Somer's case we have LE standing by the side of the mother and many interviews with various news anchors who are clearly sympathetic to DT.

We have mom going through all of the stages of grief, self defense and self-blame, etc. We have her describing her beautiful, vibrant daughter and then saying she is not going to be allowed to see the little one's body. These things leave strong emotional impacts on people. We have people who think she is a hero and people who think she is a fake. We have the multiple fund-raisers, people going back and forth about the appropriateness of this or that - we have LE interviews where the sheriff praises mom and practically says she could be the next John Walsh. PLEASE SEE LINK my post #309.

The search for Somer’s killer has been every bit as intense as the search for the young girl, which ended when CCSO deputies Robert Dews and Gary Winterstein discovered her body in a Georgia landfill.

Somer’s mother, Diena, met the two men for the first time on Wednesday, along with Sgt. Matt Williams, who was with them as their supervisor when the discovery was made.

Beseler said watching his deputies hug Somer’s mother marked the first time he has lost his composure on the job. “It was the most emotional moment I’ve had throughout this process,” he said. “I even broke down during that meeting.”

Such emotions haven’t been rare in the Orange Park and surrounding communities, which have rallied behind the Thompson family by placing signs on business marquis, holding fund-raisers, forming support groups, and attending candlelight vigils. More than 1,000 people attended Somer’s viewing and memorial service on separate days.

Beseler said the outpouring has been invaluable to the Thompson family, and that it wouldn’t surprise him to see Diena become a voice for the welfare and safety of children everywhere.

“I can see her turning tragedy into a mission,” the sheriff said. “She’ll become quite an advocate.”


IMO these remarks were totally unnecessary in an open murder investigation. What purpose did they serve?

IMO only: For such a "tight" investigation where evidence and COD are not disclosed, possible types of suspects are not even speculated on, there has been WAY too much publicity of the wrong kind. People giving opinions here and there - especially law enforcement - is sloppy and unprofessional. Information of significance is not forthcoming (allegedly so as not to compromise the investigation) but everyone's feelings are played out like a soap opera, until an attorney appears and the case goes off the radar.

On several threads pages and pages back, several people asked why the sheriff has not formally cleared DT and/or any other family members in the investigation. I think he should do so.
MOO only.

Please excuse/forgive the length of this post. TIA
 
It was good, insightful post, chickP as most of yours are. I want to say that I agree with you about the viewing of Somers body. I have no doubt that her body could have been made presentable enough for viewing.. ST has told me repeatedly that NO ONE kept him from or told him not to view her body. It just wasnt recommended. I think it was the family's choice, not something forced on them by LE. I also dont think the Sheriff or other detectives would have lent their support to DT in the manner that they have if she were a suspect. No one has been publicly cleared, but I do think LE knows who is cleared in their investigation, whether they make it known to the public or not. Of course, these are just my opinions. Keep sleuthing..I learn alot from your posts and I appreciate it. TIA.
 
I think you could be right on.. maybe he didnt rape her, maybe he just advanced and she fought and he killed her and dumped her. Then I think why didnt the dogs track her there then. Her scent would have led them and it had to be someone she knew in a car or the hounds would have found her.
I flip and I flop without COD.

I think you could be right. I still don't quite understand why LE thinks releasing the COD would hamper or impede the investigation. Many, many times, COD is released in cases where there is no named POI. Why does LE think it's so important not to release this information? I, personally, cannot see it damaging the integrity of the case. JMO
 
Sure is quiet. Guess everyone is sleeping in today. I tried that, but didn't work too well.

It's 18* here this morning. We're not used to such cold temps here in SE Texas. Brrrr....
 
I think you could be right. I still don't quite understand why LE thinks releasing the COD would hamper or impede the investigation. Many, many times, COD is released in cases where there is no named POI. Why does LE think it's so important not to release this information? I, personally, cannot see it damaging the integrity of the case. JMO

ITA I think the purpose would be if they had a suspect and the person slipped and said the correct COD, realistically how many causes of death would there really be and someone could say, "well that's what I heard at the coffee shop."

I think releasing whether or not she was sexually assaulted could actually be helpful, if they are still looking for tips. Many people could have preconceived opinions on whether she was of course. If someone is suspicious of a person, they may or may not report a person based on what they think they know if she was or was not. Sorry, if my wording is confusing, but I hope you get the idea anyway.
 
It was good, insightful post, chickP as most of yours are. I want to say that I agree with you about the viewing of Somers body. I have no doubt that her body could have been made presentable enough for viewing.. ST has told me repeatedly that NO ONE kept him from or told him not to view her body. It just wasnt recommended. I think it was the family's choice, not something forced on them by LE. I also dont think the Sheriff or other detectives would have lent their support to DT in the manner that they have if she were a suspect. No one has been publicly cleared, but I do think LE knows who is cleared in their investigation, whether they make it known to the public or not. Of course, these are just my opinions. Keep sleuthing..I learn alot from your posts and I appreciate it. TIA.

BBM

I don't know sad. I don't think DT was involved, but it seems like a logical step for them to take if they were suspicious of a family member. Putting themselves as close to the suspect as possible by showing support, whether sincere or not, could be a tactic they would use. I am speaking in general here, not specifically about DT.
 
BBM

I don't know sad. I don't think DT was involved, but it seems like a logical step for them to take if they were suspicious of a family member. Putting themselves as close to the suspect as possible by showing support, whether sincere or not, could be a tactic they would use. I am speaking in general here, not specifically about DT.

Very good point!

Also on sheriff calling DT and ST when the official ID came in... DT asked the sheriff to call her as soon as he knew. I dont think we can read this as his being aloof to her because of guilt. I think he just did as he was asked to do and called immediately instead of driving to her.
 
I think some of the hinkiness of this case comes from the fact the Governor got involved in it. I have a feeling he left orders and strong suggestions to his fellow politicians and LE when he left town.
 
It was good, insightful post, chickP as most of yours are. I want to say that I agree with you about the viewing of Somers body. I have no doubt that her body could have been made presentable enough for viewing.. ST has told me repeatedly that NO ONE kept him from or told him not to view her body. It just wasnt recommended. I think it was the family's choice, not something forced on them by LE. I also dont think the Sheriff or other detectives would have lent their support to DT in the manner that they have if she were a suspect. No one has been publicly cleared, but I do think LE knows who is cleared in their investigation, whether they make it known to the public or not. Of course, these are just my opinions. Keep sleuthing..I learn alot from your posts and I appreciate it. TIA.

Thanks for your reply, your comments and compliments (undeserved, I am just a nosy person and like to look deeply into things, lol). I think, like you, it is possible that it was recommended to DT - by someone - that she not view the body. In fact I would be positive this was true if I had not talked to FD (funeral director). He leaned very strongly on his experience of viewing for closure and insisted that with the modern techniques available that practically the only persons who would not be fit for viewing were those who had been dead for several days and decomposed. And even then, he said, it is possible to dress them and make them at least able to be seen.

I must stress again that he stated LE routinely recommends the viewing - and of course all of them (LE and FD's) are well trained in preparing family and supporting them in this process. Needless to say, if FD's are experienced in preparing bodies to be suitable for viewing, suitable is suitable...it could be they just didn't want family to see their child dead, period.

But based on what he has told me, it would seem to be out of the ordinary for the non-viewing by either DT or ST. MOO

Sad, if it was the "family's choice" as you say, then why are we discussing this subject here...? More than one person has gotten the impression that DT was angry (I think on that video, it was even inferred) that she "wouldn't be allowed" - even though those were not her exact words. I don't think this is just a matter of us micro-scrutinizing anyone. I repeat what I have said - the high visibility and lack of evidence - general silence of LE - leave us no choice but glean what we can from these types of incidents. Was this just another case of "drama"?

You mention that in your opinion LE would not be so supportive of DT if she were a suspect. I will repeat that from what I've seen, its highly unusual for a LEA to show or speak of support for a parent or family member in an unsolved child murder. Without targeting DT specifically, statistics show that a very high percentage of child murders are at the hands of parents or significant others (interfamilial or extrafamilial homicide) and NOBODY HAS BEEN RULED OUT AS A SUSPECT BY LE.

So back to my last statement: Why have they not publicly cleared anyone in the family? And, if the perp is an outsider, why, in their few media updates, are they no longer stressing that there is a child-killer on the loose?

JMO, MOO etc., I think these are suitable questions. If anyone here disagrees, I'd love to hear your replies. If I have offended anyone, it is not intentional. Thanks. :angel:
 
Very good point!

Also on sheriff calling DT and ST when the official ID came in... DT asked the sheriff to call her as soon as he knew. I dont think we can read this as his being aloof to her because of guilt. I think he just did as he was asked to do and called immediately instead of driving to her.

Yes, you're right (based on what I have been researching, not MOO): A while back I posted a video of a former NYPD detective who said that in his personal experience, empathy was the crucial thing. He said if he had to cry during an interview, he would. But I am concerned about the PUBLIC support given to DT by LE. It is unprecedented, IMO unless some poster (Dr. F are you there?) can play "devil's advocate" and provide me with some examples of where this has been done before? I would be more than happy to listen and learn!
 
I was just re-reading this to refresh my own memory.

It states that the next-of-kin must sign to allow release of body.

The paragraph I have highlighted says that the next of kin can be told the COD. Therefore, I must assume that LE has prohibited release of this information, even to Somer's next of kin.

Can I find out of the cause of death?
Yes, in the majority of cases. You can call our office the following day in the late afternoon for the results of the autopsy. Occasionally, we are unable to record a definitive cause of death immediately following our examination. Frequently it is necessary to perform microscopic, chemical or toxicology tests in order to arrive at the exact cause of death. The death certificate for these cases will be listed as "pending" and may take six to eight weeks or longer to complete. If the "death certificate" is pending, a letter will be sent to the next of kin indicating this and a follow-up letter will be issued when the cause of death has been determined. Our office will then complete an amendment to the death certificate.

Please note: it says that occasionally they are unable to RECORD due to pending results, but it does not say they are unable to RELEASE.

Further clarification: LE said they had the COD but were not releasing any information. This was not a case of pending due to tests. In the interview with her attorney present, DT said, (related to did have any information about the investigation): "No, nothing. I don't even know how Somer died."
 
ITA I think the purpose would be if they had a suspect and the person slipped and said the correct COD, realistically how many causes of death would there really be and someone could say, "well that's what I heard at the coffee shop."

I think releasing whether or not she was sexually assaulted could actually be helpful, if they are still looking for tips. Many people could have preconceived opinions on whether she was of course. If someone is suspicious of a person, they may or may not report a person based on what they think they know if she was or was not. Sorry, if my wording is confusing, but I hope you get the idea anyway.

So far, all of my sleuthing has supported release of COD. I have not found one example (even in lengthy legal protocols) of ME not allowing next of kin to obtain the results of autopsy. I have waded through many counties and am focusing on Florida. Not one example of COD prohibited. So this case, at the very least, is not in the norm.

We're not looking at public release of information, we are looking at release of information to next of kin. Who have not been formally released as suspect(s) in open homicide investigation.
 
Thanks for your reply, your comments and compliments (undeserved, I am just a nosy person and like to look deeply into things, lol). I think, like you, it is possible that it was recommended to DT - by someone - that she not view the body. In fact I would be positive this was true if I had not talked to FD (funeral director). He leaned very strongly on his experience of viewing for closure and insisted that with the modern techniques available that practically the only persons who would not be fit for viewing were those who had been dead for several days and decomposed. And even then, he said, it is possible to dress them and make them at least able to be seen.

I must stress again that he stated LE routinely recommends the viewing - and of course all of them (LE and FD's) are well trained in preparing family and supporting them in this process. Needless to say, if FD's are experienced in preparing bodies to be suitable for viewing, suitable is suitable...it could be they just didn't want family to see their child dead, period.

But based on what he has told me, it would seem to be out of the ordinary for the non-viewing by either DT or ST. MOO

Sad, if it was the "family's choice" as you say, then why are we discussing this subject here...? More than one person has gotten the impression that DT was angry (I think on that video, it was even inferred) that she "wouldn't be allowed" - even though those were not her exact words. I don't think this is just a matter of us micro-scrutinizing anyone. I repeat what I have said - the high visibility and lack of evidence - general silence of LE - leave us no choice but glean what we can from these types of incidents. Was this just another case of "drama"?

You mention that in your opinion LE would not be so supportive of DT if she were a suspect. I will repeat that from what I've seen, its highly unusual for a LEA to show or speak of support for a parent or family member in an unsolved child murder. Without targeting DT specifically, statistics show that a very high percentage of child murders are at the hands of parents or significant others (interfamilial or extrafamilial homicide) and NOBODY HAS BEEN RULED OUT AS A SUSPECT BY LE.

So back to my last statement: Why have they not publicly cleared anyone in the family? And, if the perp is an outsider, why, in their few media updates, are they no longer stressing that there is a child-killer on the loose?

JMO, MOO etc., I think these are suitable questions. If anyone here disagrees, I'd love to hear your replies. If I have offended anyone, it is not intentional. Thanks. :angel:

My friend's child was kidnapped years ago. LE cleared them publicly almost immediately and were very close with them. It was obvious that LE had respect for the family. And there was zero fundraisers for themselves. Only for the reward. The child was never found.
 
Here is a video explaining the garbage search, they talk about it at about the 2:50 mark.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYfm9fsXUkQ&feature=related[/ame]
 
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