GUILTY FL - Steven & Michelle Andrews, both 28, murdered, Fort Myers, 27 Dec 2005

[Etta996]

Wow, Details. You said everything I wanted to say and expressed my sentiments the way I wish I had been able to do!:clap: No excuses, no excuses, no reasons, no reasons, no reasons EVER for Cold-Blooded Pre-Meditated MURDER.

 

[docwho3]

There is no reason, other than self defense to ever murder anyone! Affairs happen all the time, doubly so in boyfriend-girlfriend relationships. No excuse to murder, and not even partial responsibility on the cheater (IMHO) for causing the murder. . .

While it is true there is no valid reason to commit murder and therefor murder is an unreasonable act, it is also true that if one chooses to ignore the possibility that under the influence of passion someone may act unreasonably then one is being foolish and taking unnecessary risks. It is not true that you can have your cake and eat it too. You either take risks or you don't.

Sometimes people walk out into a street full of moving cars without worrying about getting hit. After all it is the motorist's responsibility to stop and not run over someone, and mostly people do manage to stop or swerve around pedestrians but there are those few times when a motorist does not stop or swerve and a pedestrian gets run over. Legally it is the driver's fault for not stopping to avoid an accident as a pedestrian has right of way. No excuse, no valid reason for hitting the pedestrian.

In life you either take risks or you don't but if you take risks and choose to trust to others ability to always do the right thing you may well be disappointed.

There is no excuse for someone murdering anyone, no excuse at all. Lock them up or do the death penalty with no arguments from me. But if we know that people may sometimes do a murder in certain types of situations and we choose to take the risks then we are being foolish even if it does not excuse the killer for committing a murder.

 

[Etta996]

docwho3,

IA that Steve and Kellie were foolish. But calling their behaviour foolish and saying that one or both of them "caused" Fred to murder them, made Fred so emotionally upset that he had no "choice" (as some people seem to believe), etc, etc is beyond belief to me.

Also, it's a little tricky when you start labelling people's moral behaviours in regards to how much that behaviour contributed to a crime perpetrated upon them.... According to whose standards? Yours? Mine? Pat Robertson's?

At any rate, I don't think you're taking the stance that this murder that FRED comitted is somehow someone else's fault, right? So I really don't think I disagree with your post.

 

[docwho3]

docwho3,

IA that Steve and Kellie were foolish. But calling their behaviour foolish and saying that one or both of them "caused" Fred to murder them, made Fred so emotionally upset that he had no "choice" (as some people seem to believe), etc, etc is beyond belief to me.

Also, it's a little tricky when you start labelling people's moral behaviours in regards to how much that behaviour contributed to a crime perpetrated upon them.... According to whose standards? Yours? Mine? Pat Robertson's?

At any rate, I don't think you're taking the stance that this murder that FRED comitted is somehow someone else's fault, right? So I really don't think I disagree with your post.

You are right in believing I am not saying Freds crime was someone elses fault. I appreciate your kind response.

 

[tezi]

Kellie may not have gone over there and killed that couple but she is partly responsible. She might not have been married but she was in a commited relationship with Fred. They had a child together and they had lived together for over 6 years. Fred still had no right to go over there and kill 2 people,I hope he has to pay for what he did. Kellie is guilty of instigating this situation.

Amen and pass the spuds! Both her and Steve should have kept their pants zipped. However, I feel Kellie may have added fuel to the fire by hinting around to Fred that she was sleeping with Steve. He may have also read some of those e-mails. I could only imagine what would happen to me if I were e-mailing another man and my husband found out about it. He respects my privacy, but if he felt threatened by someone I met online, you can bet your boots he would be reading my e-mail. And I think he would be entirely justified to do so. Kellie and Fred had a "commited" relationship because they had a child together and they were living together. To me, that just about the same as marriage. I feel sorry for the two kids that got stuck in the middle of this situation. Don't people think about what end result their actions have on the kids?

 

[Details]

Also, it's a little tricky when you start labelling people's moral behaviours in regards to how much that behaviour contributed to a crime perpetrated upon them.... According to whose standards? Yours? Mine? Pat Robertson's?

Precisely.

Ever see that episode of the Simpsons where Ned Flanders gets fed up with being the moral one in the town, and moves to an idylic cutely proper town? He ends up having to leave because they consider a mustache to be a bad thing, and he realizes he doesn't want to give them that much control over him.

There's always someone out there who will consider your behavior immoral and wrong, or irresponsible and thus you contributed to the crime. No matter what it is. For some people it's going out to a bar at night and drinking late; for some people it's that you work outside the house if you are a woman - so sexual harassment or worse on the job is just what you signed up for. There's always an if only, but unless you directly contributed to the murder (gave him a gun, paid for the killing, knew about it beforehand and didn't warn anyone), to me, you may have done something wrong, you may be a lousy person, but you don't have any responsibility for what happened.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Look, the fact of the matter is that people wouldn't murder other people if not for _ _ _ _ _ _ _. Its called a motive. Are most of them stupid? Yes. Unfortunately, crimes of passion, as this one may appear to be, are as old as time itself. Is there plenty of blame to go around? Yes. Is that going to make anything better or make any sense? No. We can go round and round about it, but we're still going to get down to senseless murder and another kid whose got to grow up screwed up in the head because adults put their own needs before the child's.

 

[IdahoMom]

There's always an if only, but unless you directly contributed to the murder (gave him a gun, paid for the killing, knew about it beforehand and didn't warn anyone), to me, you may have done something wrong, you may be a lousy person, but you don't have any responsibility for what happened.

:truce: :truce: :truce: :truce: :truce:


I think Kellie contributed to Fred's fury and I think she's a lousy person.

We're all going to disagree about that...so why not just let everyone say how they feel about her part in it and let it be? I don't think I'll change your mind or Etta's mind, and I'm sure you'll not change mine or other's here.

That said, FRED committed the crimes and he should absolutely do the time- get the death penalty, actually!! I do think law enforcement should carefully look into whether Kellie had any prior knowledge (threats, etc), and if she tried to cover up for Fred at all. Did she help him get rid of the gun, etc.?

I really like you as a poster, Details, but we don't have to agree on everything! :blowkiss: Have a great day!

 

[tezi]

That said, FRED committed the crimes and he should absolutely do the time- get the death penalty, actually!! I do think law enforcement should carefully look into whether Kellie had any prior knowledge (threats, etc), and if she tried to cover up for Fred at all. Did she help him get rid of the gun, etc.?

I most definetely think Kellie needs to be looked at as a possible accessory before or after the fact. I think she knew what Fred was going to do. JMO

 

[Details]

I think Kellie contributed to Fred's fury and I think she's a lousy person.

We're all going to disagree about that...so why not just let everyone say how they feel about her part in it and let it be? I don't think I'll change your mind or Etta's mind, and I'm sure you'll not change mine or other's here.

That said, FRED committed the crimes and he should absolutely do the time- get the death penalty, actually!! I do think law enforcement should carefully look into whether Kellie had any prior knowledge (threats, etc), and if she tried to cover up for Fred at all. Did she help him get rid of the gun, etc.?

I really like you as a poster, Details, but we don't have to agree on everything! :blowkiss: Have a great day!

See, now, I think I completely agree with you on this. I'm sure she made Fred mad, and we've got plenty to say she's a lousy person. And definitely look into if she committed any crimes related to the murders. That's just where I stop.

 

[cathieq]

Personally, I think everyone should just quit having sex...period. It's overrated anyway.

 

[less0305]

Personally, I think everyone should just quit having sex...period. It's overrated anyway.

I have to disagree.....I want more sex!!!! :crazy:

 

[Mabel]

I have to disagree.....I want more sex!!!! :crazy:

You can't have more, less.

 

[MistyGirl]

WOW, WOW, WOW - I have been out of the coutnry and away for few weeks & I come back to check this thread cause I have been following and hopi gto get some discussion going on it and there seemed not be much interest and I come back and she all these new pages to thread and have listend to all the tapes.

Could some one tell me where the emails between Steve & Kellie are at I did not see those but I read several comments about them from psoters here. Thanks in advance!

 

[less0305]

You can't have more, less.

That's me....an oxymoron - emphasis on the moron!!!!!!! :woohoo:

 

[less0305]

WOW, WOW, WOW - I have been out of the coutnry and away for few weeks & I come back to check this thread cause I have been following and hopi gto get some discussion going on it and there seemed not be much interest and I come back and she all these new pages to thread and have listend to all the tapes.

Could some one tell me where the emails between Steve & Kellie are at I did not see those but I read several comments about them from psoters here. Thanks in advance!

Misty, follow this link and then scroll down mid to bottom of the page and you'll see how you can download and link to lots of info, including the emails.

http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=5985&z=3&p

happy reading - it will take you a while to read it all.

less

 

[MistyGirl]

Misty, follow this link and then scroll down mid to bottom of the page and you'll see how you can download and link to lots of info, including the emails.

http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=5985&z=3&p

happy reading - it will take you a while to read it all.

less

Thanks for the link - I just finally finished read & listening to everything. This is a very, very, sad case. I by no means am excusing what Fred did at all....but I also hold Kellie & Steve responsible for their part in this whole terrible tradgey. I am sorry but if it were not for their actions & choices the out come would not have been the same.

Maybe Steve had his reason for not being happy in his marriage but how he went about things was terrible. My heart breaks for Michelle and what she must have been feeling those last few weeks as she was trying to hold on to her marraige & family.

I also don't buy for one second that Kellie & Fred did not have some discussion about Steve. I jsut don't see Fred suspecting soemthing was going on and with out confronting Kellie....I can't imagine that he maybe thought somethign was going on figured out were Steve lived and went and killed him. You can bet he Kellie had a discussion of some sort about what was going on.

I was also very suprised at Steve mom's comments during her interview with Police it was very clear that she didn't like Michelle at all and was only tolerating her.

I keep thinking about poor Michelle wasking up to the sound of gun shot and seeing her husband shot & this man in her room......the fear and helplessness she must have felt. It sounds like she put up on hell of a fight, so sad that this mother lost her life & her son lost his mother.

I know Steve is a victim too.....but he is a victim of his own actions & choices and it is sad when any human being losses their life but some azre easier to swallow then others.

 

[CrimeHater]

Poor Michelle.... I wonder what her last thoughts were. She may not have even had time to recognize who Fred was. Depending on if he told her, or how it all ended. She may have thought it was a burgular!

 

[RiverRat]

"Here are other developments presented by Linda Kokora during her interview on Dec. 27:

• During her high school years, Michelle's behavior was so erratic that Linda Kokora asked if her father had ever molested her. Michelle said no. Linda and Dan Kokora went to tough-love classes to find out how to help their daughter.

• Part of the schism between the Andrews family and the Kokora family happened because Steven Andrews' mother "tells this story to a psychologist, and she thought Danny did something to our daughter."

• Her son-in-law "won her heart" from the first time she met him.

• Before Steve Andrews and her daughter were married, Linda Kokora believed she needed to tell his parents "I feel like we're giving Steve a broken doll with Michelle."

She believed Michelle's past, which included an abusive relationship in her teens and an eating disorder, could create problems.

• The week before Christmas, Michelle was trying to patch her marriage. "Christmas Day, Michelle was doing everything this week possible to gain him back. Doing all the right things a wife should do — making the dinners, doing whatever he asked her to do."

• Linda Kokora spoke to her son-in-law Dec. 26 about his marriage.

"I don't know what's true or what isn't any more," she remembers him telling her. "My perfect life. Am I going to be 40 down the road and think if I should have done something else?"

Linda Kokora interpreted that as him "going with this other woman opposed to our daughter."

• Linda Kokora asked Steve on Dec. 26 to get counseling and try to save the marriage.

• Kokora's last conversation in person with her daughter was at Michelle's home.

"One day it was good, up, and the other day it was down," she remembers Michelle telling her about her marriage.

They sat on the stairs talking.

"You know, mom — she looked at Luke (the couple's child) playing with his toys — she said, 'You know whatever happens Luke and I will be OK.' And I said, 'Michelle you'll have to plan for that. Whatever takes place.' "

 

[lostfaith]

Here is the link to Riverrats article

http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060322/NEWS01/603220425/1075


Michelle's parents are brutally honest. I feel so bad for them.