Found Deceased FL - Tammy Alexander, 16, Brooksville, 8 Nov 1979

[Abigail]

It was "Eddie's Drive In".

And here are a bunch of other elements/thoughts/questions:

Lloyd (who was considerably older) & Barbara had to be in the process of retiring at the time Tammy Jo Alexander left. It seems that they sold Eddie's and moved to Lakeland within days/weeks of her leaving. Was Tammy Jo Alexander going to move with them? Was she distressed by the move? A 16 year old girl being uprooted... seems like it could have been a big deal... enough so that she rebelled(?) and left. I'm not even sure that the Lakeland house to which they moved would have had room for her(?). I believe it's been demolished now.

Assuming she was attending Hernando High School in November 1979, what did the school say or do when Tammy Jo Alexander stopped attending? What did the school do with her belongings - if any - that would have been left there (assume they had lockers)?

South Sumter High School is in a different county than Brooksville and Eddie's.

Where was Marvin Alexander through all of this?

Was the missing person report only filed with the sheriff... or was the Brooksville PD involved?

Who was at the family gathering for Tammy Jo Alexander's 16th birthday? And where was it held?

Sharon (step-sister) was ~20 in Nov '79, right? Clearly old enough to know what was going on.

Regarding the jacket - IIRC, the Jenkins' had some familiarity/friends/involvement with motor sports. And though daytime highs in early Nov '79 didn't call for a jacket, if Tammy Jo Alexander left at night she certainly may have grabbed a light jacket as nighttime lows were in the mid 50s - which probably seems rather chilly to a Floridian.

I got more, but I'll stop for now.

This is great info -- very helpful -- please share more!! I'm from the Lakeland area, and I remember car racing being extremely popular back then. The Daytona 500 of course, but local races. There as (still is, I think) a track over by Polk City, etc.

 

[HP@82]

It was "Eddie's Drive In".

And here are a bunch of other elements/thoughts/questions:

Lloyd (who was considerably older) & Barbara had to be in the process of retiring at the time Tammy Jo Alexander left. It seems that they sold Eddie's and moved to Lakeland within days/weeks of her leaving. Was Tammy Jo Alexander going to move with them? Was she distressed by the move? A 16 year old girl being uprooted... seems like it could have been a big deal... enough so that she rebelled(?) and left. I'm not even sure that the Lakeland house to which they moved would have had room for her(?). I believe it's been demolished now.

Assuming she was attending Hernando High School in November 1979, what did the school say or do when Tammy Jo Alexander stopped attending? What did the school do with her belongings - if any - that would have been left there (assume they had lockers)?

South Sumter High School is in a different county than Brooksville and Eddie's.

Where was Marvin Alexander through all of this?

Was the missing person report only filed with the sheriff... or was the Brooksville PD involved?

Who was at the family gathering for Tammy Jo Alexander's 16th birthday? And where was it held?

Sharon (step-sister) was ~20 in Nov '79, right? Clearly old enough to know what was going on.

Regarding the jacket - IIRC, the Jenkins' had some familiarity/friends/involvement with motor sports. And though daytime highs in early Nov '79 didn't call for a jacket, if Tammy Jo Alexander left at night she certainly may have grabbed a light jacket as nighttime lows were in the mid 50s - which probably seems rather chilly to a Floridian.

I got more, but I'll stop for now.

Re: Boston- I remember reading that it was part of the "Cali story" that she was trying to get a ride to Boston, BUT the ONLY person who remembers seeing Tammy that night was the waitress at the diner. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: High school. Did Tammy attend 9th grade at South Sumter and 10th grade at Hernando? Or did she complete 9th (or part of it) and 10th at Hernando?

Re: 79-80 yearbook photos. Are they available? Someone said they saw them. AFAIK, the widely publicized one with Tammy in pink is from 78-79 schoolyear.

Wow!

I only know about Hernando High, and I believe they went back and looked in the yearbooks and she is only in the one book as to the year, I am not sure. As for what the school said about her going missing… They weren’t like they are now. Think about how many people that graduated in the 90’s are the first people in their families to graduate high school. Those are things we really don’t know. Pam didn’t live with them, she was married with child yet still a child herself. Yes, Lloyd is/was MUCH older than Barbara. I am not sure about those details, and it's probably not a great idea to guess. Though, I look and look! However, Tammy ran away in the past... As to why, it probably wasn't due to any move. Though I am sure that didn't help if it was a known plan. This wasn’t her first time running. I've always been told that Marvin Alexander was not involved in Tammy's life after she was a toddler (but I don’t know), so I don't have much information on him at all. Just like I don't know Sharon, when Tammy started running away, my mother's mother would not let my mom around Tammy much (wouldn't want her to get any ideas maybe, I don't know). My mom was like 11 months older than Tammy, so she would have been 16 turning 17 during all this, and she remembers so much, but then doubts so much the more she reads. Life was stressful, we say things are bad now… No we just know more now. Children have a voice, sometimes too much of one. Lord knows mine trained me to have a mouth… I use it  These girls didn’t! However, again it's hard to give too much info when, we're asked not to. I know that this site is amazing, I mean look at what you know that I don't... So though I would love to tell all, it's not my own personal knowledge, and I don't ever want to steer anyone in the wrong direction.

As far as a MP report to Hernando Sheriff or Brooksville Police, as far as I know "they were told" it was to Hernando Sheriff... We only defend what we are told. Because I truly feel that she did file a report. I don't know much about Tammy and Pam's mom... Only stuff that I cannot really share, not my place, not the place, and this is an investigation. Plus all things I share, I have to make clear are recollections of others, as I was born November 1982.

Please know… I want to help, but I also don’t want to hinder. I just keep looking and taking notes. In hopes that I too get a chance to talk to the LE about this, so I can give me thoughts. They may lead nowhere, but we won’t know until we know. I don’t think that we got this sad gift 35 years later for nothing, so I pray that something is clear and drops in their laps to give them a clear answer!

 

[Abigail]

Yes, I would say it is likely that the jacket belonged to her killer. It was reported in the Tampa Bay Times that Tammy was last seen by her family on 03-Nov-1979 (i.e., the day after her 16th birthday), according to authorities.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...micide-identified-as-brooksville-girl/2215169

If that is true, then there wouldn't have been enough time to travel to California, and back through the Sierra Nevadas and the Rocky Mountains to New York (as was also indicated by the other types of pollen found in addition to the Australian Pine pollen). She probably traveled directly from Florida to New York, and if pollen analysis was correct, the person wearing the jacket while traveling from California to New York would probably not have been Tammy.

By the way, it wasn't ever clear whether the pollen was in just the jacket, or whether it was in any of her other items of clothing.

The California trip was earlier -- in May 1979. Tammy and her friend hitched rides with truckers out there, then the friend's mother paid for their tickets to fly home.

The pollen from Australian pines probably came from Florida -- Australian pines are common in the Brooksville area and throughout south Florida.

 

[CarlK90245]

The California trip was earlier -- in May 1979. Tammy and her friend hitched rides with truckers out there, then the friend's mother paid for their tickets to fly home.

The pollen from Australian pines probably came from Florida -- Australian pines are common in the Brooksville area and throughout south Florida.

I realize that, but on the March 79 trip (Laurel told me the postcard was dated March 15, 1979 - not May), she didn't return through the Sierra Nevadas and Rocky Mountains. They rode with truckers back from California to either Phoenix or Tucson, and flew back to Florida from there.

The other findings of the pollen analysis, in addition to the Australian Pine pollen, they found pollen from oak, birch, and spruce, which they said was likely to have come from the Sierra Nevada mountains, and the Rocky Mountains.

I don't think that Oak, Birch, and Spruce grow along the I-10 route from Florida to California.

 

[Abigail]

I realize that, but on the March 79 trip (Laurel told me the postcard was dated March 15, 1979 - not May), she didn't return through the Sierra Nevadas and Rocky Mountains. They rode with truckers back from California to either Phoenix or Tucson, and flew back to Florida from there.

The other findings of the pollen analysis, in addition to the Australian Pine pollen, they found pollen from oak, birch, and spruce, which they said was likely to have come from the Sierra Nevada mountains, and the Rocky Mountains.

I don't think that Oak, Birch, and Spruce grow along the I-10 route from Florida to California.

Thanks for the correction on March for the California trip -- not sure why I was thinking May.

Did they say what kind of oak? Brooksville is replete with water oaks and live oaks (live oaks more around the older homes and out in the pastures) -- my in-laws retired there and had a yard full of water oaks. And their patio would be covered with oak pollen in the Spring. It would be all over everything.

Certainly no birches or spruces in Brooksville though. But those are common in the northeast. I suppose there might be different varieties that might be found in the western mountains but not in New York?

 

[CarlK90245]

I don't know how they pinned it down to the Sierra Nevadas and Rocky Mountains. There are certainly Oaks, Spruces, and Birches in other parts of the country. But somehow, they came up with that route, and they even said that San Diego County was the most likely origin. I spent about two or three weeks going through every available late 1970's yearbook in Classmates.com for schools in San Diego County. I was thinking of continuing on to Orange County. It's a good thing i didn't. LOL

Thanks for the correction on March for the California trip -- not sure why I was thinking May.

Did they say what kind of oak? Brooksville is replete with water oaks and live oaks (live oaks more around the older homes and out in the pastures) -- my in-laws retired there and had a yard full of water oaks. And their patio would be covered with oak pollen in the Spring. It would be all over everything.

Certainly no birches or spruces in Brooksville though. But those are common in the northeast. I suppose there might be different varieties that might be found in the western mountains but not in New York?

 

[Abigail]

Well, San Diego county would work with the March California trip, if she took I-10. But I suppose any pollen would have been washed out of her clothes by then, if she even wore the same ones to New York. Of course, if the red & black jacket was hers, she might have worn that to California and just never washed it after she got back.

I found this link (I'm sure you already found it and discussed it at length on the Caledonia Jane Doe site -- I'm still working my way through all those postings -- still only about 1/3 of the way along) http://projects.nfstc.org/trace/2009/presentations/3-bryant-palynology1.pdf
Beginning at slide 34, it discusses the pollen in TJA's case. Slide #40 says that the marker pollen grains came lint in her pants pocket and the inside lining of her coat. It doesn't specify what kind of oak or spruce or birch. There would be the occasional spruce around Lima, NY -- where she probably stopped to eat. And there's oaks along there on Main street (20/5) and maybe a birch or two (they're up here, just not too common). But, there's tons of maples all around there in Lima -- many more maples than oaks, birch or spruce. I wonder why no maple pollen showed up? Or were they just concentrating on the pollen that wasn't in the area where her body was found?

So, apparently, based on these slides -- they had her in San Diego because of the Australian pine (which was actually introduced in Florida long before California, and is common in the beach areas), and then in the western mountains because of the oak, birch and spruce. But we now know that she likely picked up the Australian pine pollen at home, and probably the oak at home, and maybe the birch and spruce on the way up to New York.

It would REALLY help to know if that were her own jacket. If it wasn't, it could have been given her by anyone. I kinda doubt the killer would have given it to her though. And left it behind.

 

[CarlK90245]

Well, San Diego county would work with the March California trip, if she took I-10.

Laurel said that they went to Los Angeles, and were not even there for more than an hour. They turned right around and headed back, and got stuck in Arizona before she called home to book a flight back.

 

[four4rock]

Abigail & Carl, All this pollen count stuff is far from any area of expertise I have. However, having lived in Western New York State - Amherst - my entire life (50+ years), I know that birch trees of various varieties are not really that uncommon. I have one - that was sourced locally - on my front lawn right now. There's one diagonally across the street from me; one a few houses away. I grew up in the area and my parents had a birch. They were even more common in the 60s & 70s... until some kind of bug/disease got some. They are now returning. In fact, the following link from 2003 comments about high pollen counts including birch in Rochester. [ http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/index.cfm?id=307 ]. I believe that river birch is the most common... particularly along the Genesee river and Ellicott Creek. I see quite a few white paper bark birch trees around as well. Some things to consider.

I struggle with the thought that someone that has the presence of mind - presumably after taking someone's life - to be concerned about pocket contents would leave "their" jacket.

 

[Abigail]

Abigail & Carl, All this pollen count stuff is far from any area of expertise I have. However, having lived in Western New York State - Amherst - my entire life (50+ years), I know that birch trees of various varieties are not really that uncommon. I have one - that was sourced locally - on my front lawn right now. There's one diagonally across the street from me; one a few houses away. I grew up in the area and my parents had a birch. They were even more common in the 60s & 70s... until some kind of bug/disease got some. They are now returning. In fact, the following link from 2003 comments about high pollen counts including birch in Rochester. [ http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/index.cfm?id=307 ]. I believe that river birch is the most common... particularly along the Genesee river and Ellicott Creek. I see quite a few white paper bark birch trees around as well. Some things to consider.

I struggle with the thought that someone that has the presence of mind - presumably after taking someone's life - to be concerned about pocket contents would leave "their" jacket.

The only reason I can think of for leaving the jacket behind is that there would be the hole in it from the gunshot to her back, and blood. But...what if were the perp's jack, and he wasn't removing her identifying information, but his? Does anyone (Carl????) have contact with LE on this case who would know what size that jacket was? A man's jacket would be swimming on a girl the size of Tammy.

Our youngest went to school in Amherst last year (he's at Mary Cariola in Rochester now). I remember all the pretty brick houses and yes, there's lots of birch trees over there.

 

[CarlK90245]

Does anyone (Carl????) have contact with LE on this case who would know what size that jacket was? A man's jacket would be swimming on a girl the size of Tammy.

I don't know the size, but the waitress at the Lima Diner remembered that the jacket looked much too large for her.

Also, in the recent Democrat & Chronicle news clip which included the interview with Sheriff York, he mentioned that her jacket was pulled up on her back when they found her. Depending on how high on her back it was pulled up, it may have been that the second bullet missed the jacket.

 

[KateB]

Andreatta: They never stopped caring for girl
February 1, 2015
http://www.democratandchronicle.com...ta-tammy-jo-alexander-hager-haywood/22593467/

It was only 17 degrees that day in January 1980 when the casket of a teenage girl who the Livingston County sheriff said had been "tossed by the side of the road like a turkey" was wheeled into storage at a Dansville cemetery to wait out the winter. But Anna Hager remembers it being even colder inside the red brick storage vault, where the casket stood amid lawnmowers and gas cans also waiting for spring. Neither Hager nor the other three people gathered there for the girl's memorial service knew her. Nobody anywhere seemed to know her. She was just this nameless pretty thing with brown eyes and a bikini tan and bullet holes in her head and back.

Another article from Democrat & Chronicle. I didn't see it posted.

 

[Abigail]

I don't know the size, but the waitress at the Lima Diner remembered that the jacket looked much too large for her.

Also, in the recent Democrat & Chronicle news clip which included the interview with Sheriff York, he mentioned that her jacket was pulled up on her back when they found her. Depending on how high on her back it was pulled up, it may have been that the second bullet missed the jacket.

Thanks - very helpful to know that it was probably a man's jacket. In the pollen slides (link above) slide 34 shows the actual crime scene and body (I'm assuming it's the actual crime scene). She's lying on her back (I thought she was found face down?), and her plaid shirt is pulled up in the front, to above her navel. The jacket is open -- hard to tell if it's pulled up in the back, and the sleeves do appear long -- sort of bunched up at her wrists, but a bit hard to tell from the photo. The jacket and shirt may have been pulled up by the killer, while searching her pockets. If the jacket was loaned/given to her on her trip north, most likely by a trucker, that would explain the pollen being from all over. But it wouldn't explain the pollen in her pants' pockets.

 

[CarlK90245]

In the pollen slides (link above) slide 34 shows the actual crime scene and body (I'm assuming it's the actual crime scene). She's lying on her back (I thought she was found face down?), and her plaid shirt is pulled up in the front, to above her navel.

By the time that photo had been taken, they had already turned her over. She was found lying face down.

 

[Abigail]

Good news is that the waitress who saw her at the diner, Kate McDermott, is still alive, and the diner is still open and she's working there. http://www.wfla.com/story/27963840/35-later-where-do-detectives-find-tammys-killer

 

[four4rock]

Good news is that the waitress who saw her at the diner, Kate McDermott, is still alive, and the diner is still open and she's working there. http://www.wfla.com/story/27963840/35-later-where-do-detectives-find-tammys-killer

Wow. After reading about the place, I'm getting nosey to actually have a lunch at the Lima Diner. heh Seriously, that's very cool. Who would've thought.

I saw in the Sunday D&C piece that some of the Livingston Sheriff folks were planning on heading to Florida this past Monday. Not sure of they'd leave from ROC or BUF. I know BUF had a bunch of flights shut down on Monday 'cuz of weather. Wonder if they have made their way there(?).

 

[sloane7777]

So is she the one who gave the description of the man Tammy was with?

 

[CarlK90245]

So is she the one who gave the description of the man Tammy was with?

Yes, the waitress is the only witness to have seen her in the area prior to her death.

 

[Fuuro]

I remember hearing about this case a long time ago and I was totally shocked to find out that she was finally identified after more than 35 years. When I was researching this case on Wikipedia I heard that Tammy didn't flinch or anything when she was shot, leading me to believe she was totally unaware of any danger she was in and she was probably shot while facing the opposite direction. This might sound a little strange, but did the police question the farmer who found her body? He said he thought he thought her body was an intruder, which doesn't make much sense to me as her body was lying down (unless he thought the intruder was sleeping in his corn fields). Maybe she was shot from behind because they thought she was an intruder? At the time of her murder she was wearing masculine outer clothing and she had short hair so she might have been able to be mistaken for sa male from behind. Maybe when they saw Tammy's body and went through her pockets to see if she had a weapon or anything, and upon realizing she didn't and they basically killed an unarmed teenager for no reason, they hid her in the cornfield.

 

[CarlK90245]

The first shot wasn't from behind. The first shot was nearly point-blank in the forehead. No way was the killer mistaken as to whom he was killing.