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I wish that people would stop hounding the jury about their verdict. I would hope that they are not harrassed in anyway either. Leave them alone, and others should not condone their harrassment either. Someone else posted in another thread about an obscene sign greeting them on their way home. I think that people should shift the blame game from the jury to the prosecution, as the jury was not responsible for what evidence was presented in court. I agree with Lisa's post above, perhaps if they had been shown additional evidence, it would have mattered, but they were not, and that fault lies with the prosecution.
From someone who agrees with the outcome:
"What's the beef? This case was tried in the press, discussed endlessly by pundits and the verdict delivered BEFORE it ever went to trial! It was a done-deal, right? Then, the realities of the American justice system came into play. The case was tried in the courtroom. The evidence against Ms. Anthony was presented by the prosecution, sometimes pruriently, sometimes sensationally. The defense presented their counter-arguments and offered their evidence of Ms. Anthony's innocence. And then, the jury deliberated. One assumes that they were reasonable, honest people. They decided Ms. Anthony's case, based on all the evidence, did they not? And, in the end, they found Ms. Anthony innocent of the 3 main charges against her, but guilty of the 4 misdemeanor charges. Justice has been served. Of course, the screaming, torch-bearing mobs, instigated by that execrable, fetid, incompetent wench, Nancy Grace, are unhappy because the verdict was not what Nancy told them, with extreme certitude, that it was going to be. Too bad for Nancy. Very good for Ms. Anthony. I hope Nancy Grace and all the other "rush-to-judgment" experts eat crow and choke on it. This was American justice at its finest and best. Anyone who concludes otherwise needs to turn Nancy off and get on with their lives."
There were LIO's, but none of them were argued. This is where the prosecution made their mistake,imo. Many felt they were overreaching from the beginning. The SA overcharged and then did not argue the lesser offenses;basically they asked for all or nothing and got nothing. I don't agree with the verdict in that I think she killed her daughter .But I understand how the jury came to the conclusion they did based on the elements they were given in the jury instructions and what the SA argued and did or did not prove. If the SA had argued anything lesser, I believe and always have believed they would have convicted her.The jury was given an either/or proposition. Either you believe she premeditated killing her daughter or she didn't kill her daughter. That's it. No kill her by accident, no trying to cover up an accident, no disposing of the body, nothing.
And then, the state never proved how she died. You are saying she premeditated killing her but yet then never prove how Casey killed her. You never explain how she used the chloroform. You never explain how exactly did she commit this crime. It was speculated ad nauseum on this forum how this went down but none of that was ever presented as proof to the jury.
Look at it like this, you say you have a body in the car. Who put the body there? You say Casey. And you proved that how to the jury? You say she may have buried her in the backyard for a period of time. And you proved that how to the jury? Because she asked for a shovel? You say she dumped her in the swamp. How did you prove she dumped her in the swamp? These are all premeditated questions and they didn't answer any of them.
The jury didn't have any other out than premed. They didn't have 2nd degree. Keep in mind, I don't agree with the verdict, but when you look at the scenarios (just looking at the 1st degree charge, not anything else), you can see how they came up with NG in the 1st degree.
Lisa0477 you bring up a good point that I had briefly wondered about the other day when listening to JA's closing argument..
I was so very disappointed that SA went the route of it being Caylee's age and progression in communicating/talking therefor soon would be telling the truth that momma ain't gotta job and there sure ain't a Zanny Nanny that we stay at.. That's momma's boyfriend, Ricardo..
I hated that very "iffy" scenario was used as the actual motive for killing Caylee.. And the main reason I hate it so much is because I don't feel it's true.. IMO the true motive of "why" is the exact reason that Cindy has fought so damn hard for Casey's life!!
The motive that took things from zero to 60 in a blink of an eye and IMO had Caylee dead less than 24short hours after it all occurred.. That incident was Cindy Anthony's final straw that broke all hell loose.. Resulting with not only Cindy going ALL THE WAY with Casey verbally but very much physically as well.. Cindy having just returned from a days visit with Caylee to see Cindy's dad in the retirement home(most recognize this video as it is where we saw Caylee sing "You are my Sunshine" and sat on her Papaws lap.. The last video of Caylee, June 15,2008.. And IMO Caylee was dead less than 24 hrs after the video was made).. Cindy while on this day visit she learned of Casey's thieving ways were now being used on her elderly parents and stealing hundreds of dollars from her dad's fixed income for payment for the home he was living in.. Cindy found out from her mom that this theft had occurred while during her visit that day..
It was the straw that broke the camels back and damn it this is one thing I side with Cindy and fully understand her breaking point.. Casey had been stealing from her parents.. Literally hundreds of checks and thousands of dollars.. And once Cindy learned that Casey now had the gall to steal like this from her grandparents, Cindy's parents on a fixed income.. Well.. Cindy broke.. She literally lost it on Casey that night.. IMO all well deserved and Casey had it coming..*
This was the fight of all fights between these two who My God obviously these two clash horns and butt heads on a regular basis.. But this was different IMO Cindy really really let it all out.. And I mean let every bit of it all hang out.. She was fed up and she was gonna be damned if this spoiled bratty beeeotch daughter of hers was not gonna dare go there(stealing)from Cindy's elderly parents.. She lost It!!! She lost it!!! I mean Cindy really lost it!! Telling and calling Casey all of the things she had wanted to call her and say to her for years.. I bet it was pretty damn brutal for little Miss Casey who was the family's thieving liar thT tended to get away with chit.. Yea pretty much get away with murder(pun intended) and now Cindy had her fill and it was all being slung in Casey's face like nothing she had ever ever experienced.. Thet included and I believe pretty much drew to a close the entire Cindy breaking bad on Casey fiasco.. And that was George having tO literally peel his wife and her hands literally off of and away from Miss Casey's neck..
You guys this is the damn motive!! It is the very event that resulted in less than 24 hrs later Caylee was dead..
U see Casey/Caylee immediately hauled *advertiser censored* out of the Anthony home that night after George had peeled her mother off of her.. This is what made Casey decide late on the night of June 15th, actually still Fathers Day, to forever take the one great joy, precious love that without a doubt Casey knew would be the ULTIMATE KNIFE IN HER MOTHERS HEART!!!
Casey murdered Caylee not outta fear of Caylee talking.. Nope.. Casey murdered that child
In cold blood out of sheer hatred, venomous hatred at that moment for her mom, Cindy.. Casey would teach Cindy the ULTIMATE LESSON NOT TO EVER EFF WITH HER BECAUSE MOM WHEN YOU DO YOU BETTER DAMN WELL BELIEVE I WILL MAKE YOU PAY.. and she did.. She murdered Caylee because she had the utmost of seething hate, resentment, and in that moment straight up cold hearted revenge .. Casey killed Caylee that night of the 15th..
And the story that we now are led to believe is that Casey Caylee didn't leave the house the night of the 15th.. 100% denial that the fight of all fights even had occurred the night of the 15th.. Nope.. The story now goes that Casey/Caylee spent the night there at home the night of the 15th and then as many may then remember the part(that is actually 100% fabricated) is that George was home that day the 16th watching a cooking show when Casey/Caylee came thru the living room where he was as they were leaving with Caylee's little backpack..1pm on the 16th last to see Casey/Caylee as Casey was off to work at Universal and to drop Cays at Zanny the Nanny's.:
That ^above^ is a complete fAbrication..you know why? And at whose direction it was to lie, fabricate, and create
A completely false scenario as the last time Casey and Caylee were seen before the start of the now infamous "31days"???..
I know someone upthread made mention of there being possible fabricated "scripts" that Casey were told to follow and that they were created by George.. Nope.. Not George..
It was at Cindy's absolute direction that this completely false account of Casey and Caylee's last being seen to be leaving the Anthony home was at 1pm on June 16th..NOT ON THE NITE OF JUNE 15th AFTER THIS HELLACIOUS FIGHT BTWN CINDY/Casey.. Instead the fabrication doesn't even have Cindy present, but rather she was at work, George home to see his daughter/granddaughter off to work at his daughter's make believe job and Cays off to the make believe Nanny named Zanny!!
This ^above^ is the script.. This is a false, completely untrue fabricated story.. Fabricated by Cindy and per her direction George was to stick with the script.. Why?.. I think the answer is obvious.. But it's all about the hellacious fight to end all fights.. The usual very much in control, leader of this family, Cindy Anthony's breaking point that sent her to a literal point of no return.. Her losing control on Casey in a way that IMO probably even scared and shook up Cindy, herself once calmed down and realizing the full extent of just how far she had gone with Casey..
It is that very event that Cindy without a shadow of a single doubt knows 110% that is what then sent Casey over the edge and resulted in little Caylee's life being forever extinguished.. Cindy knows just as well as she knows her very own name.. And because of Cindy's guilt and shame of having went that far with Casey.. Along with that she has also sadly taken on the burden of guilt and shame of her actions being the very spark to ignite the murderous anger that her daughter then took out on Caylee by killing as the ULTIMATE OF PUNISHMENT all directed at/on Cindy..
It is Cindy's self induced guilt and shame and carrying the burden of feeling in a way indirectly responsible for Caylee's life being lost that fateful night of June 15th..
It is that very event that is 100% the reason why the last time Casey/Caylee were seen was completely made up and fabricated.. It was to cover up the hell that broke loose in the Anthony home the night of the 15th involving herself
And Casey.. It was to keep that detail out.. To make it as tho it never even occurred. And Cindy even under oath, without even blinking an eye absolutely 100% now denies it happened.. But it did..*
And because Cindy knows not only it did occur but the guilt of what she feels at fault for and IMO will never forgive herself for.. It is every bit of the reason you have seen her fight, and I mean even unusually, fight fiercely to defend and truly even fiercely feels the need to even save Casey from suffering punishable by law consequences to her murdering Caylee.. Cindy feels it is the least she can do since she feels that it was ultimately her choices and actions that then indirectly led to Casey's killing Caylee..
Now that is the motive.. That is also what we know is fabricated and we know why it was fabricated..
Everything shoved into a nutshell is related to what occurred in the Anthony home the night of June 15, 2008.. and when the actual truth is seen, laid out in it's true form.. It just doesn't get anymore self explanatory or easily connecting those dots that we know that juries really need to be able to connect and see and understAnd that 1+1=2 *and that just az clear as day that the small equation of 1+1=2 is seen how it is added and totals the correct number of 2.. No bs about it.. No wheelin-dealin, fast talkin, big named "EXPERT" talking his unintelligible babblings that don't fit together, doesn't add up to what he's attempting to "say" that it does.. Basically just spewing bs..
IMO if the truth of what and why and exactly when and with who the true account of June 15th, 2008 was given to the jury as the actual true motive of why Caylee was dead less than 24 hours from those events happening..
If the true motive were simply and honestly laid out just as it happened.. The simple equation of why all of it occurred would be seen just for what it was..1+1=2'and IMO *most likely Casey would be receiving the punishment that fit the crime of murdering her defenseless toddler for the simple motive of hatred, resentment and the ultimate knife twisted into a mother's heart..revenge.. Caylee paid the price.. It was Caylees murder that served as Casey's ultimate revenge on Cindy..
Sorry so very long but I wanna know why in the hell was not the simple and purest of alll motives honestly told to these jurors.. The truth??? The true motive for why Caylee was murdered by her mom late night of June 15, 2008??
Wouldnt most agree the truth would have or could have made all the difference in the world with the outcome we have???
IMO it's a very real possibility that what I just defined ^above^ in this post is all that it would have taken for our Caylee to have received that long awaited justice on her behalf..
I wanna know why the truth wasn't given?
I think a lot of people on this site do not really understand what our legal/justice system requires.
First of all: even if everyone "knows" Casey did something to Caylee, the state is required to prove "what" was done. They did not do that.
Next: in order to prove murder (particularly 1st degree) there needs to be a mens rea. (not necessarily a motive, but they need to prove that Casey wanted Caylee dead). All they were able to prove is that Casey didn't seem unhappy that Caylee was dead. That is totally not the same thing.
Next: They needed to prove an actus rea. That is, they needed to prove how Caylee died, at least to some degree. Simply showing that she is dead is not enough, unless there is clear and compelling evidence that she was killed. Had her neck been broken, or her skull fractured, that would be enough, but that did not exist in this case. All they could say is that she was probably suffocated, but maybe she was ODed... or maybe something else.
next: they needed physical or circumstantial evidence. Something to prove that Casey was seen in the area that the body was discovered, or that her car tire tracks were at the scene, or that there was Caylee's blood in the trunk... anything. A "death smell" might have contributed to the deal, but it couldn't be considered as primary evidence.
Finally: the entire burden is on the state to prove these things. Casey had no obligation to even present a defense. Obviously, her team did want to throw out some possible alternative scenarios, but that is not their responsibility. It is 100% on the state, and the state overreached.I think the state was truly counting on the emotions of the jurors pushing this case past the legal requirements. All they could prove, in fact, was that Casey is a liar, that her parents are looneys, and that Caylee is dead. They could not conclusively tie all of those things together to prove that Casey deliberately (or even negligently) killed Caylee.
As much as it saddens me that Casey Anthony seems to have escaped justice, you cannot blame the jury, or even the defense. It is 100% the fault of overeager prosecutors who brought a case to court without the corresponding evidence. And, believe me - I think they did it for the right reasons. I believe that this case impacted them and they were determined to see Casey pay, but they made a big mistake in going for murder 1 - they should have known better. Had they tried her for what they could actually PROVE - she would probably have gotten a minimum of 25-50 years.
I totally agree...the prosecution let the ball drop by leaving out a lot of evidence...that fight was pivetal piece that they needed. I'm going to ask this question:
WHERE was and WHO was watching Caylee while Cindy and KC were fighting like cats and dogs and George was the referee?
A lot of people on here that have had experience with sociopaths say that there is always a little bit of truth sprinkled in with the lies, you just have to know how to decipher. The only thing that I can disagree is that according to GA and CA, KC didn't leave the night of June 15th. She spent the night at home and left the next day. GA gave a very vivid description of what Caylee and KC were wearing when they left...something that has always raised a red flag with me.
I'm going to go in another direction for a moment please don't get mad at me..but this family has some series issues dealing with the truth, dealing with things that make them uncomfortable. When confronted with it they just act like it isn't happening, they go into some sort of psychotic denial. She's not pregnant, she's bloated. The baby isn't dead, the nanny, that we've never met or talk to, has her at the beach.
IIRC:
Cindy and Caylee came home from that Father's day visit and went swimming.
Casey came home from who knows where TLs, the mall, feel free to speculate.
She wasn't allowed to swim with them because Cindy said "caylee was tired".
Cindy that said she gave Caylee to Casey.
Cindy FURIOUS at Casey for stealing from her parents leaves the pool ladder up.
Casey bathed Caylee and got her ready for bed.
Then Cindy confronts Casey and all hell brakes loose as you so vividly and elloquently decribed it above.
NOBODY is paying attention to Caylee.
Added because I just thought of this HORRIBLE sceniero:
Casey does LEAVE but leaves Caylee at home...
GA and CA still reeling from their arguement don't realize SHE DIDN'T take Caylee with her..
Caylee isn't found untill the next day when Casey comes home, Cindy is at work and George is watching his cooking show.
I don't agree with the verdict - she should have gotten aggravated child abuse.
ITA with you.
For all the things the state did not have - I say only one thing.
George knew all this and made sure they would not have anything.
KC in my opinion needs to kiss his Azz.
I respect the opinions of those who agree with the verdict. I'm stuck on this one point though. It may be possible someone would panic after an accident and try to cover it up. But for 3 years? A person would sit in jail for 3 years and trust their fate to a jury rather than tell the truth about a terrible accident which happened?
Honestly, I'm not debating those who believe the jury verdict was correct. I'm simply trying to understand how you fit all the pieces together. Thank you.
A sociopath can't be helped and she steps into the world on Thursday.
Anybody who believes her to be innocent is in la la land. I hope they never feel the wrath of the likes of that inmate.
I could be mistaken and you do actually have a degree in psychiatry but it's factually untrue a sociopath can't be helped. It's not an easy fix but it can and has been done often.
Really? I would genuinely like to read about such a case. Do you have any links? (Serious question, this isn't anything I've ever heard before.)