For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[CoolJ]

Thanks for the welcoming everyone and welcome everyone else, even people who have been here for years.



That would probably make a decent British sitcom. Imagine a Steven Avery type golfing along side the members of the Royal Family...he could show up to the golf course in a bath towel and they'd just think he was a Scotsman in a kilt...



You post is exactly why I would assume they'd do the best job of their lives. If you're going to play in the Superbowl, you don't show up to the game hung over.

This is part of what baffles me about their performance... it was so bad and they could have broken him so thoroughly if they did a good job and if he really did it. And the police would be giant heroes for solving such a big case and chopping the lawsuit off at the knees.

As it stands, they have brought shame to their own names, their department, and how many people watched MaM and thought "I hope I never have to drive through Manitowoc County"? I don't even think the hardcore Steven Did It crowd think the police did a good job, per se.

So I wonder if the poor performance was because they thought it would be open and shut, if they thought no one would notice, or if something sketchy was going on that dampened the sense of professionalism that was needed. Or maybe they are just THAT bad at their jobs...?


The shoddy police work is what kept this case in the spotlight and if that is causing the Halbach family (and friends) continued harm, that is squarely and entirely on the shoulders of the police. I guess that is why it was the focus of my first posts.

Great post!
I think you hit the nail on the head when you suggested the poor performance might be because they thought it would be open and shut. IMO, they knew they could control the narrative within the county and surrounding area. They probably knew their tentacles reached long enough to even control the narrative at the state level. IMO, they were clumsy because that is what happens when you you've been manipulating things for so long. You get lazy because it seems so easy. They were not expecting international coverage of their corrupt culture.
JMO

 

[CoolJ]

Who does that anyway? In such a small town this department goes OUT OF THEIR WAY TO NOT NOTIFY THEIR OWN CORONER?
Then BLOCK HER FROM THE SCENE?
And Avery is suspicious??
Sigh

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My guess is that she is not "with the program".

 

[BigCityAccountant]

That would probably make a decent British sitcom. Imagine a Steven Avery type golfing along side the members of the Royal Family...he could show up to the golf course in a bath towel and they'd just think he was a Scotsman in a kilt...

As it stands, they have brought shame to their own names, their department, and how many people watched MaM and thought "I hope I never have to drive through Manitowoc County"? .

RSBM
LOL~~that would be funny.

Anyway, I drive thru Manitowoc County. I recall in being pulled over on I-43 in the 90's by MCSD. I know, lead foot. :blushing: The officer was very nice and I told him I needed to use the ladies room and he let me go, no ticket. He told me there was a rest stop right up the road. Hence my knowledge and posting about the rest stop early on in the thread.

 

[Jaiddie]

There is always room for incompetence in any endeavor, but it certainly would appear that in Manitowoc they went above and beyond the call of duty.

One thing that sticks out in my mind is that they deliberately kept Manitowoc County Coroner Debra Kakatsch off site when the charred bones were discovered. She found out about the discovery on television, and when she arrived she was blocked from the scene and performing her duties.

That this evidence was not collected properly or even documented in any reliable fashion renders it much more dubious than it should have been.

Kakatsch was not allowed to testify as it was deemed knowing this might 'confuse' the jury to know that a competent forensic specialist was barred from investigating the discovery of this evidence.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...55/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-19-2007Mar08.pdf

The side bar where the witness is ultimately dismissed begins on page 205.

It is this very path right here that started me down the MaM rabbit hole. The fact that the medical examiner, who WAS allowed to examine the cremains, came back from a trip away to find that the cremains had been delivered to her office in a cardboard box doesn't help the state's case any IMO. That they wouldn't allow anyone ON-SITE to properly examine and recover the cremains speaks volumes as to what LE hoped to gain from that investigation.and it certainly wasn't to find out the truth.JMf course.

 

[dexter75]

My guess is that she is not "with the program".

I bet you're guessing right😉
I'm guessing they couldn't COUNT ON HER to " keep her mouth shut " IMO.
You know, 😉😉 probably questioned her " loyalty " & who did it lie with?
IMO..she must have had a conscience😊 ( definitely not in LE's best interest )
JMO

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[dexter75]

It is this very path right here that started me down the MaM rabbit hole. The fact that the medical examiner, who WAS allowed to examine the cremains, came back from a trip away to find that the cremains had been delivered to her office in a cardboard box doesn't help the state's case any IMO. That they wouldn't allow anyone ON-SITE to properly examine and recover the cremains speaks volumes as to what LE hoped to gain from that investigation.and it certainly wasn't to find out the truth.JMf course.

How can anyone with a rational mind or a conscience NOT scratch their head and say, " wait. What?! Why not? "
To me it's no different than the
" obvious " She went to Averys, never left, remains were found on the property so..
I mean one can't help but to think about it for a minute.
JMO


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[proudfootz]

I bet you're guessing right
I'm guessing they couldn't COUNT ON HER to " keep her mouth shut " IMO.
You know,  probably questioned her " loyalty " & who did it lie with?
IMO..she must have had a conscience ( definitely not in LE's best interest )
JMO

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If this report is to be believed (and it does seem to fit the pattern of sloppy work by Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department and their ability to hold a grudge) there seems to have been a feud started with the Coroner when she wouldn't leave out the inconvenient fact that police ran over the victim when they arrived at a hit-and-run and hold them responsible if that was what killed the victim.

Pete Baetz interviewed the Coroner about it, and she told him “the Sheriff’s Department doesn’t like me and has vowed to put me out of business.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...ys_defense_investigator_pete_baetz_describes/

 

[dexter75]

If this report is to be believed (and it does seem to fit the pattern of sloppy work by Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department and their ability to hold a grudge) there seems to have been a feud started with the Coroner when she wouldn't leave out the inconvenient fact that police ran over the victim when they arrived at a hit-and-run and hold them responsible if that was what killed the victim.

Pete Baetz interviewed the Coroner about it, and she told him “the Sheriff’s Department doesn’t like me and has vowed to put me out of business.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...ys_defense_investigator_pete_baetz_describes/

I believe it.

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[BigCityAccountant]

Well, this is very interesting...

The things you pickup when you go back and re-read...LOL

Page 437 of the CASO reports names a SMV, who states she think her and her boyfriend are suspects in the disappearance of TH. They were at the salvage yard just a hour or two before TH. Well, now her boyfriend DMW, is available in WI Circuit Court records. He was married to a SM Hallbach. I wonder if SMV is the same person as SMH or SHW.

Why would a perfectly normal person going about their normal daily business think they were a suspect just because they were there that day? There is something more to this. I don't get it, why call LE and say that? So how does that go~~we were both there, nothing happened, but I think my ex-boyfriend maybe involved? Either something DID happen while she was there or it didn't! Why would she think that? Especially 4 months later? ...and who the heck is Jim Stephonic (sp) I don't recall any private investigators with that name.

Page 437, CASO reports

 

[proudfootz]

Hard to imagine what might be up with a gf calling in at that late stage of the game suggesting her bf might have had something to do with Teresa that day.

But it does sound a little like she was concerned they had the wrong fella, eh?

 

[dexter75]

Well, this is very interesting...

The things you pickup when you go back and re-read...LOL

Page 437 of the CASO reports names a SMV, who states she think her and her boyfriend are suspects in the disappearance of TH. They were at the salvage yard just a hour or two before TH. Well, now her boyfriend DMW, is available in WI Circuit Court records. He was married to a SM Hallbach. I wonder if SMV is the same person as SMH or SHW.

Why would a perfectly normal person going about their normal daily business think they were a suspect just because they were there that day? There is something more to this. I don't get it, why call LE and say that? So how does that go~~we were both there, nothing happened, but I think my ex-boyfriend maybe involved? Either something DID happen while she was there or it didn't! Why would she think that? Especially 4 months later? ...and who the heck is Jim Stephonic (sp) I don't recall any private investigators with that name.

Page 437, CASO reports

The things that make you go hmmm.
Or, perhaps we are just desperate.. Desperate because.. <insert reason here>
Speaking of rereading..I read a post from waaay back ( one of the first few I believe) on the not planted thread.
It went something like
Each piece of evidence can be explained away..
It's the totality of evidence that screams guilt!
I had to read that twice.
So if each piece CAN be explained away??&#129300;
Am I missing something??

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[dexter75]

Hard to imagine what might be up with a gf calling in at that late stage of the game suggesting her bf might have had something to do with Teresa that day.

But it does sound a little like she was concerned they had the wrong fella, eh?

Could be..

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[missy1974]

The things that make you go hmmm.
Or, perhaps we are just desperate.. Desperate because.. <insert reason here>
Speaking of rereading..I read a post from waaay back ( one of the first few I believe) on the not planted thread.
It went something like
Each piece of evidence can be explained away..
It's the totality of evidence that screams guilt!
I had to read that twice.
So if each piece CAN be explained away??&#55358;&#56596;
Am I missing something??

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I'm still waiting for evidence of the rape and torture.


jmo

 

[BigCityAccountant]

The things that make you go hmmm.
Or, perhaps we are just desperate.. Desperate because.. <insert reason here>
Speaking of rereading..I read a post from waaay back ( one of the first few I believe) on the not planted thread.
It went something like
Each piece of evidence can be explained away..
It's the totality of evidence that screams guilt!
I had to read that twice.
So if each piece CAN be explained away??&#63764;
Am I missing something??

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.
Did I post that...LOL

 

[Karinna]

I'm still waiting for evidence of the rape and torture.


jmo

Yeah it's unbelievable they could come to that conclusion with absolutely no evidence of such a thing. If we discount Brendan Dassey's coerced tale and we have to, because it is coerced and inadmissable, what else is there that makes them even think that happened? They have no evidence to prove that.
For all we know TH could be in a grave somewhere out in the woods or far away from Manitowoc county somewhere, if those bones are proven not to be hers, and the evidence concerning those bones is very contentious from what i have read about them anyway. So what is the truth in this case?

 

[dexter75]

.
Did I post that...LOL

No&#128521;

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[dexter75]

I'm still waiting for evidence of the rape and torture.


jmo

Will you please lmk if you ever come across any?
Thanks&#128522;

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[dexter75]

.
Did I post that...LOL

Nope&#128521;

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[Jaiddie]

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n.../avery-case-lull-but-things-heat-up/96533558/


My favorite fearless reporter strikes again!

 

[proudfootz]

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n.../avery-case-lull-but-things-heat-up/96533558/


My favorite fearless reporter strikes again!

"Avery's attorney, Kathleen Zellner, of suburban Chicago has told USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin that the testing should wrap-up by March.


...


Eventually, the independent lab tests will be known to both Zellner and the Wisconsin Department of Justice, whose lawyers worked with Zellner to facilitate the testing. In court filings last August, Zellner made it clear she intends to file her highly anticipated post-conviction motion aiming to prove Avery's innocence after the results are available."

It's good to know that it might not be until March when scientific results might become available.

It's tough to be patient and wait for the wheels of justice to slowly grind along.

"In two of Zellner's most high-profile exonerations &#8212; Ryan Ferguson of Missouri and Kevin Fox of Illinois &#8212; she has focused on overlooked, obscure scientific evidence. She has also focused on uncovering evidence of prosecutorial misconduct, mainly exculpatory evidence that was concealed from the defense."

BBM

One thing which I think in my opinion might surface is that some exculpatory evidence was suppressed or ignored.