For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Jaiddie]

http://www.fox9.com/web/kmsp/news/82059933-story

"Zelich worked for a suburban Milwaukee police department from February 1989 until his resignation in August 2001, following an internal investigation that found he stalked women while on duty and used his position to get access to their personal information. His resignation allowed him to avoid discipline and pass state background checks for a private security officer's license."

I do not understand why these kind of clear violations of the law, by people who are supposed to be serving and protecting us, are not held more accountable when their transgressions are discovered. If this man had been dealt with in the proper way, as any other citizen would have been, two women would still be alive today. If anything, anyone that is in a position of authority should actually be dealt with to a higher standard, in these kind of situations, as they are the ones who are actually supposed to be responsible for upholding the law and keeping the public safe. No wonder people no longer have the trust and belief in our LE and government agencies when this kind of tragedy is allowed to continue.

 

[Jaiddie]

I can't find this anywhere on my tv... Is this a local only channel/viewing?

I would imagine that it is a local channel in WI that is airing it...I am just waiting for someone to post it online then I was planning to post it here if I can find it.

 

[Sustained]

I would imagine that it is a local channel in WI that is airing it...I am just waiting for someone to post it online then I was planning to post it here if I can find it.

You might be able to see it live here :

http://fox6now.com/on-air/live-streaming/

 

[dexter75]

My thoughts exactly, when folks compare SA's " allegations " of rape/sexual misconduct to Kratz's PROVEN record.

SA= petty criminal, room temperature I.Q., lives with parents.
Kratz= PROSECUTOR, elected official, college educated, MARRIED..

A higher standard indeed..

http://www.fox9.com/web/kmsp/news/82059933-story

"Zelich worked for a suburban Milwaukee police department from February 1989 until his resignation in August 2001, following an internal investigation that found he stalked women while on duty and used his position to get access to their personal information. His resignation allowed him to avoid discipline and pass state background checks for a private security officer's license."

I do not understand why these kind of clear violations of the law, by people who are supposed to be serving and protecting us, are not held more accountable when their transgressions are discovered. If this man had been dealt with in the proper way, as any other citizen would have been, two women would still be alive today. If anything, anyone that is in a position of authority should actually be dealt with to a higher standard, in these kind of situations, as they are the ones who are actually supposed to be responsible for upholding the law and keeping the public safe. No wonder people no longer have the trust and belief in our LE and government agencies when this kind of tragedy is allowed to continue.

 

[angelainwi]

I have been very slowly reading some of the new documents that got dumped last night. In a pre-trial hearing, RH testifies. For anyone that is suspicious of him.... I doubt this testimony will make you feel any better. lol It's about what searches he organized/did... the whole Pam thing, when he had contact with LE and who, etc. He drops Pagel's name so many times in his testimony, it reminded me of a preteen girl that just met Bieber JMO

Oh and the other thing that struck me as odd so far... the mentioning that cell phone coverage in the area is horrid, and when he used his cell phone "out there" calls got dropped, but he'd never been to the Salvage Yard before. Pg. 84-85

Aug 9 motion hearing part 1
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...2/Partial-Motion-Hearing-Part-1-2006Aug09.pdf

taken from this link:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/hearingtranscripts/

Which pre-trial hearing does RH testify in?

 

[missy1974]

Which pre-trial hearing does RH testify in?

it's in the first link in that post....

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...2/Partial-Motion-Hearing-Part-1-2006Aug09.pdf

 

[missy1974]

http://fox6now.com/2016/02/23/she-w...estigation-what-she-saw-thats-stuck-with-her/

she pretty much lost me at this quote:

"All I can remember is his house was so clean. And when his attorney, this kind of struck me, a couple weeks ago, his attorney and Ken Kratz (the prosecutor) were on one of the news shows and I can’t quote him, but his attorney said, 'one thing I can say about Steven Avery is that he’s not a very good housekeeper' and my jaw dropped when he said that, because when I was in there it was so clean. It was so clean. Not just uncluttered, but clean, clean," the deputy said.

I think we've seen enough pictures to know this isn't true. The bathroom had spots of his own blood, there was his own or unidentified blood spots on door frames or something. She also mentions bleach containers on the kitchen counter.... anyone see pictures of that? lol Because that would be pretty important. Uncluttered... ok lol

She also believes that Brendan could have called 911 and saved her life.... which means she believed that confession.... which means.... anything else coming from her, means not a heck of a lot to me ;-) JMO

 

[hoshizora]

I have been very slowly reading some of the new documents that got dumped last night. In a pre-trial hearing, RH testifies. For anyone that is suspicious of him.... I doubt this testimony will make you feel any better. lol It's about what searches he organized/did... the whole Pam thing, when he had contact with LE and who, etc. He drops Pagel's name so many times in his testimony, it reminded me of a preteen girl that just met Bieber JMO

Oh and the other thing that struck me as odd so far... the mentioning that cell phone coverage in the area is horrid, and when he used his cell phone "out there" calls got dropped, but he'd never been to the Salvage Yard before. Pg. 84-85

Aug 9 motion hearing part 1
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...2/Partial-Motion-Hearing-Part-1-2006Aug09.pdf

taken from this link:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/hearingtranscripts/

I haven't read all of this but I will read it later, however I find it interesting the LE let him into the crime scene and didn't direct the search group much (like saying don't go on private property, etc)

 

[shadowraiths]

I haven't read all of this but I will read it later, however I find it interesting the LE let him into the crime scene and didn't direct the search group much (like saying don't go on private property, etc)

Cannot say that I'm particularly surprised. After all, at that point, they did not have warrants, so they couldn't legally search his property. That is, had they done so, any evidence found, would have been "fruit from the poisonous tree" and as such, not allowed at trial. However, if plain old every day citizens found something...

 

[missy1974]

Well... this is new to me. Reading Earl Avery's testimony in the pre-trial motion. Someone else was in the Salvage Yard before Pam got there, about 45 minutes before.

Q. Um, tell us about that, you had someone come?
A. Yeah, I had -- At first I had two -- two people come. I don't know what time it was, but there was a man and a lady there that asked if they could take a ride through the yard, just to take a look. And I told them, go ahead, I'm more than willing to help you guys out.
Q. Did they give you anything to hang up in the office?
A. Yeah, they gave me a poster or something to hang up in the office. Actually, they asked me if they could hang it up and I said, yes.
Q. Okay. So they did, and they kind of asked if they could take a ride around?
A. Yes.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...2/Partial-Motion-Hearing-Part-1-2006Aug09.pdf

he goes on to say that after the RAV4 was found, he was "down there" (I think he means the crusher because that's where all the LE testified too being there IMO) and he couldn't see it, they had to point it out to him. He goes on to say that him and Fabian were there on the Wednesday/Thursday rabbit hunting and it wasn't there then.

 

[missy1974]

I haven't read all of this but I will read it later, however I find it interesting the LE let him into the crime scene and didn't direct the search group much (like saying don't go on private property, etc)

https://stopwrongfulconvictions.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/exhibit-19-aerial.jpg

here is exhibit 19, the photo that he put red X's on to show where they searched.
(for whatever reason, it's not letting me upload it right now, but you can see it at the link )

 

[Jaiddie]

http://fox6now.com/2016/02/23/she-w...estigation-what-she-saw-thats-stuck-with-her/

she pretty much lost me at this quote:


I think we've seen enough pictures to know this isn't true. The bathroom had spots of his own blood, there was his own or unidentified blood spots on door frames or something. She also mentions bleach containers on the kitchen counter.... anyone see pictures of that? lol Because that would be pretty important. Uncluttered... ok lol

She also believes that Brendan could have called 911 and saved her life.... which means she believed that confession.... which means.... anything else coming from her, means not a heck of a lot to me ;-) JMO

Yea,agree with you 100%, missy. Unbelievable! I know this is all just major damage control, but you would think that after the circus that Kratz has made of himself since the doc came out, they would be much more careful to, at least try to keep the information they are putting out to the public to give the APPEARANCE of being legitimate. But, no. Apparently they think we, the public, are blind as well as stupid. smh. One thing is for sure, Zellner is probably gonna have a field day with this, lol.

 

[missy1974]

Cannot say that I'm particularly surprised. After all, at that point, they did not have warrants, so they couldn't legally search his property. That is, had they done so, any evidence found, would have been "fruit from the poisonous tree" and as such, not allowed at trial. However, if plain old every day citizens found something...

I am reading this motion... I started last night and have slowly been reading it tonight, what I am finding most interesting is the timing.

Pam shows up 2 hours or so after everyone else has left. RH has a personal line to Pagel... and other officers... and he seems quite proud of this (which just comes off as uhmm wrong) Wiegert talks to Remiker in the morning and they are going to make a plan.... but then remember... Wiegert calls Remiker back and says "the boss has a change of plans..." (I haven't gone to search the time of this, but it was before the RAV4 was found and after 8:30am IIRC) So what was their change of plan? going out to ask permission to search Avery's and Zipperers.... but when were they going to do this? and instead they sat where? waiting for Pam to call? Pagel and Wiegert were together when she called IIRC... she talked to Pagel and then Wiegert, right? when she called in the "find"

I dunno... I need to do some more reading in this motion... and maybe going back to piece it together, but as I see it right now.... it's all looking a bit too convenient.

Oh and.... RH stayed back at TH's house while everyone was searching.

 

[missy1974]

Yea,agree with you 100%, missy. Unbelievable! I know this is all just major damage control, but you would think that after the circus that Kratz has made of himself since the doc came out, they would be much more careful to, at least try to keep the information they are putting out to the public to give the APPEARANCE of being legitimate. But, no. Apparently they think we, the public, are blind as well as stupid. smh. One thing is for sure, Zellner is probably gonna have a field day with this, lol.

Yep... my guess is... they are trying to do some damage control, make sure the locals are fed this BS IMO

I have also come across this tonight...
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com.../steep-price-making-murderer-emails/80756428/
They have been trying for 3 weeks now to get documents from the prison officials. The cost for these seem to be ridiculous and I give them credit for not only questioning it... but reporting it. Ironically, they were ok with releasing some documents yesterday... FOR FREE .... like, cmon... here, you can have these freebies because we want everyone to see them.... but you have to pay 25 cents a page for the 4000 pages that we aren't going to photocopy and going to put on a flashdrive/disk? and seriously.... 4000 pages?????

This is what they have asked for:

Emails sent or received by corrections staff that include at least one of the following terms: Avery, Dassey, Netflix, Making a Murderer. We limited the scope of emails to those produced shortly before and since the series’ release.

Prison “incident reports” filed between Jan. 1, 2007 and the present that involve either Avery or Dassey. Incident reports are one way that Wisconsin’s prison system documents many of its activities.

Any recent records that outline the limitations of inmate access to news and entertainment. Prison officials have not responded in recent weeks to questions about Avery and Dassey’s access to the Netflix series and related news coverage.

These are the freebies that the prison released to them yesterday:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2717141-Avery-Dassey-incident-reports.html


JMO ~ I am wondering if this is the same news outlet that "the Silver Fox" worked for? lol He seemed to feel that he was not part of that "inner circle" ETA: nope.... he worked for NBC26.

 

[Wendy101]

Page 84 line 6 .. Start reading.. RH is explaining the sucked out cell service out there.. Maybe that us why SA called back to back..

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...2/Partial-Motion-Hearing-Part-1-2006Aug09.pdf

Umm.. He just lied... He talks of how HIS phone cut out ect ect.. So that is WHY he have Pam the direct number,,.. Then line 21 page 85 he is asked if he was ever there in his entire life prior to the car being found.l he says no. Well how did he know HIS phone didn't work out there?

 

[missy1974]

Page 84 line 6 .. Start reading.. RH is explaining the sucked out cell service out there.. Maybe that us why SA called back to back..

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...2/Partial-Motion-Hearing-Part-1-2006Aug09.pdf

Umm.. He just lied... He talks of how HIS phone cut out ect ect.. So that is WHY he have Pam the direct number,,.. Then line 21 page 85 he is asked if he was ever there in his entire life prior to the car being found.l he says no. Well how did he know HIS phone didn't work out there?

Yep LOL I posted about that earlier.... I was reading it early this morning and had to re-read it.... and read it again when I got home from work, in case my coffee hadn't kicked in yet this morning. But nope... that is what he says.

 

[shadowraiths]

Page 84 line 6 .. Start reading.. RH is explaining the sucked out cell service out there.. Maybe that us why SA called back to back..

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...2/Partial-Motion-Hearing-Part-1-2006Aug09.pdf

Umm.. He just lied... He talks of how HIS phone cut out ect ect.. So that is WHY he have Pam the direct number,,.. Then line 21 page 85 he is asked if he was ever there in his entire life prior to the car being found.l he says no. Well how did he know HIS phone didn't work out there?

From your link:

[RH] A. The plan was to call the sheriff, or to call 911, or whatever number they had available to them, to get a hold of somebody.

[Buting] Q. So, did you give them any of those direct phone numbers?

A. I gave Pam -- Pam Sturm, I gave her Jerry Pagel's number that morning. The cell phone coverage out in that area is absolutely horrid. And to get a call out to -- most of the time when I used my phone out there, I only had 30 seconds or a minute to talk before your phone cut off on you. But I gave Pam that number, Jerry Pagel's number, that morning, with the intent that if she was going into the car lot and needed to call somebody quick, and get somebody out there, that would be the best way for her to.​

Yet, on p85, he says:

Q. Okay. Before the morning of November 5th, had you ever been out to the Avery property?

A. The 5th, no.

Q. That Saturday morning?

A. No.

Q. So, before the vehicle was located, you had never been -- in your whole life, you had never been to that Avery property?

A. No.

Q. I mean, that's correct?

A. That is correct.​

So... the question of the day? How would he know cell coverage was "absolutely horrid" if he'd never been there before the 5th? Recall, he claims that he gave Pam Sturm the map and phone, and SB gave her the camera, while they were at Ms. Halbach's residence.

Importantly, why didn't anyone call him on his "inconsistent" testimony?

 

[shadowraiths]

I must be blind, I see now that both Missy and Wendy already pointed out his quite obvious lie. In fact, I was quoting Wendy, when I made my post! Must be past my bedtime! lol

 

[missy1974]

I must be blind, I see now that both Missy and Wendy already pointed out his quite obvious lie. In fact, I was quoting Wendy, when I made my post! Must be past my bedtime! lol

LOL It is all worth repeating anyway! Seriously... how shady does that all sound? And I can't help but picture him with a smirk on his face (like when he was testifying about getting into her cell records).

And you are right... why didn't Buting pick up on that??? I really like Buting and Stang, and I understand that during the trial that there may have been rulings that prevented them from asking certain questions, but I can also see where maybe some mistakes were made by them (which is really easy to say sitting on my couch playing "lawyer" lol)

This was a pre-trial motion so the rules are a bit different, I think, and it's not like having a jury present, if nothing else, ask the question ... even if you don't get to hear the answer. *sigh*

 

[MysticJynx]

So the Foot woman retired officer that was interviewed today about the bleach BOTTLES? and the immaculately clean place. She mentions she was in the house while that guy made the video. She must be the woman who didnt wear gloves touching some of the furniture in his trailer. She also was the one who read the letter and laughed. As well as the shoes. She holds no credibility to me. And seemed to have thought he was guilty the moment she walked into his house.

JMO