France - Five shot, four dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications #1

[Skigh]

Yes. Very intensive search - certainly more intensive that one would expect if they were just looking for documents/computers/financial records/wills etc

I noticed yesterday that they were drilling holes in the front porch soffits! And it seems they're still searching....

Kevin Keane‏@kkabdn
Back at Claygate but nothing to report.

I wondered too about the searches.I did not see them drill holes but I did see them do a finger tip search of the garden borders on both their side and the neighbours .

 

[JulieR]

I agree, I think she was shot in the front seat, you can see a bullet hole in the lower left hand side of the glass. Then the passengers side door would be open just like its shown in the picture. Question then would be why didn't Mr. Martin reach in that side and turn off the car instead of breaking the window and risk hurting the driver even more. Also if you notice the hole in the drivers side window it seems it would be to far of a reach to get your arm in without risking getting cut. Which side is the ignition switch on in a BMW? I wonder what the seen was like when the first cyclist got there, what made him drop his bike and go towards the car? To many questions......

 

[Skigh]

I do agree with the "professional assassination" aspect, yet it would seem that the assassin would have known that there were 2 children. If I am counting correctly there are 12 shoots for sure, 2 to the back of the heads to 3 ppl then the bullet wound to the shoulder of the 7 yr old and 5 shoots to the back of the cyclist. It seems that the assassin did not have time to complete the mission. idk jmo

Could it be that to take the mother in law was a last minute descision and the assassinators were told 4 people.

 

[JulieR]

I seen in one of the early reports that SAH told his neighbor to watch his house because he was worried about some important documents, the neighbor said he offered to hold them but SAH said he hid them well and no one would find them........maybe that's what they are looking for.

 

[Clio]

I agree, I think she was shot in the front seat, you can see a bullet hole in the lower left hand side of the glass. Then the passengers side door would be open just like its shown in the picture. Question then would be why didn't Mr. Martin reach in that side and turn off the car instead of breaking the window and risk hurting the driver even more. Also if you notice the hole in the drivers side window it seems it would be to far of a reach to get your arm in without risking getting cut. Which side is the ignition switch on in a BMW? I wonder what the seen was like when the first cyclist got there, what made him drop his bike and go towards the car? To many questions......

Maybe I've missed something but all the pictures I've seen of the car show the right hand car door open - it's a british Right Hand Drive so this would be the drivers door not the passenger door.

The impression I have is that all the car doors were closed when Mr Martin got there.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.france24.com/en/20120914...li-chevaline-france-uk-murder-shooting-surrey

Her four-year-old sister Zeena also survived the shooting and was found eight hours later by police officers, huddled around the feet of her mother in the car’s foot well.

bbm

If Mr Martin happened upon the scene just after it happened how is it that it took 8 hours to find the 4 year old. maybe its just me, idk

The other thing that keeps coming back is just how far back was he that he didn't hear the shoots, unless the gun had a suppresser,idk

 

[Clio]

I wondered too about the searches.I did not see them drill holes but I did see them do a finger tip search of the garden borders on both their side and the neighbours .

Yes they drilled holes in the soffit of the patio and then put what looked like fibre optic lights/cameras through the holes.

 

[Skigh]

martinbrunt‏@skymartinbrunt
#franceshooting Survivor Zainab al-Hilli tells French investigators she saw only one attacker

Wasn't going to post this as I was starting to doubt some of Skys Mr B's info after the reported car info earlier today. However I saw a report a little earlier in a french paper which also says Zainab saw only one assailent - that page is now no longer available.

So I wonder if info is leaking and then getting stamped on.

I wondered the same.

I also wondered if it was something Zainab told them which prompted the French prosecuter to visit England and why RAF man gave his televised interview.

 

[JulieR]

Maybe I've missed something but all the pictures I've seen of the car show the right hand car door open - it's a british Right Hand Drive so this would be the drivers door not the passenger door.

The impression I have is that all the car doors were closed when Mr Martin got there.

Laughing..........your right, I forgot about the british right hand drive. Darn now I have to rethink this....lol.

 

[Skigh]

Maybe I've missed something but all the pictures I've seen of the car show the right hand car door open - it's a british Right Hand Drive so this would be the drivers door not the passenger door.

The impression I have is that all the car doors were closed when Mr Martin got there.

I think it was the police who opened the doors.The picture was taken in daylight and the forensic teams would have opened the doors.

The doors could have been left open as the smell inside the car would have been very strong.

 

[Skigh]

Yes they drilled holes in the soffit of the patio and then put what looked like fibre optic lights/cameras through the holes.

Thanks for that.
They are obviously looking for something.Memory sticks or something small?

 

[Clio]

http://www.france24.com/en/20120914...li-chevaline-france-uk-murder-shooting-surrey

Her four-year-old sister Zeena also survived the shooting and was found eight hours later by police officers, huddled around the feet of her mother in the car’s foot well.

bbm

If Mr Martin happened upon the scene just after it happened how is it that it took 8 hours to find the 4 year old. maybe its just me, idk

The other thing that keeps coming back is just how far back was he that he didn't hear the shoots, unless the gun had a suppresser,idk

There was a big outcry at the start of this case as to how the 4 year old could have hidden in the car undetected for 8 hours. Mr Martin said in his interview that the way the bodies were slumped, and everything was "inanimate", he didn't see her and wasn't surprised the police didn't see her.

The police thought everyone in the car was dead and didn't open the doors in order to protect forensic evidence. They even flew a heat detecting helicopter over the scene but that didn't detect her either. They say she was "frozen with fear" hiding under her mothers skirt.

The shots are another mystery. The video in the attached link shows BBC's Jon Kay talking to a woman who supposedly heard the gunshots.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19499052

So is she mistaken about the gunshots or did Mr Martin just not mention gunshots or what.....

 

[Skigh]

Interesting. Well that leaves that relative out of 'sometimes" wild speculations.
I found this French article interesting about SAH accountant Mr Julian Stedman. His accountant since 2004.
He and his wife, found SAH trip to France bizarre. Apparently the eldest girl has a reading handicap and should not be missing school.
He also disclosed that SAH used 35 pounds for his billing hours which is a far cry from all his banker neighbors income. But he also states that he has since found out that SAH was apparently involved in other activities, previously unknown to him. Did not disclose what kind of activity.
Unless SAH has other legit income, not reported to his accountant, one does wonder. May be he had a second accountant.
He also expects Mrs Al-Hilli's sister Fadwa and her hubby to take care of the two girls in future.
http://www.ledauphine.com/france-mo...d-al-hilli-c-est-bizzare-qu-ils-soient-partis

The 4 year old was also due to start her first term in reception.
Most parents would not want their child to miss their first day starting school.
Was Anncey chosen for a purpose-they could have holidayed in Normandy or Brittany whith out such a long drive through France,

 

[Clio]

I seen in one of the early reports that SAH told his neighbor to watch his house because he was worried about some important documents, the neighbor said he offered to hold them but SAH said he hid them well and no one would find them........maybe that's what they are looking for.

Thanks for that.
They are obviously looking for something.Memory sticks or something small?

Documents, memory sticks who knows what. Maybe they are just being thorough but I get the distinct feeling that they know what they are looking for but can't find it. JMO

 

[Skigh]

Documents, memory sticks who knows what. Maybe they are just being thorough but I get the distinct feeling that they know what they are looking for but can't find it. JMO

I think exactly the same-they are looking for something specific-but have not yet found it.

If it was something as small as a memory stick I would have thought he could have hidden it in the caravan.

When documents were mentioned I thought of paper-but then they also could have been taken with him.

Was it something he did not want to take through customs?

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I think exactly the same-they are looking for something specific-but have not yet found it.

If it was something as small as a memory stick I would have thought he could have hidden it in the caravan.

When documents were mentioned I thought of paper-but then they also could have been taken with him.

Was it something he did not want to take through customs?

I'm right there with you on that. They know what they are looking for.

I would also want to know if there is any evidence that the deceased bicyclist touched the car, fingerprints or what not. What made him approach the car instead on continuing on, did he see the gunman (but not the gun) and think he was part of the group and needed help or did he go to the car and gunman was hidden in the trees? If he was just riding by, his body would have been further from the car it seems. What a mess, such a tragedy.

 

[Elley Mae]

I'm right there with you on that. They know what they are looking for.

I would also want to know if there is any evidence that the deceased bicyclist touched the car, fingerprints or what not. What made him approach the car instead on continuing on, did he see the gunman (but not the gun) and think he was part of the group and needed help or did he go to the car and gunman was hidden in the trees? If he was just riding by, his body would have been further from the car it seems. What a mess, such a tragedy.

bbm, I have wondered just how far was he (cyclist) from the car?

With him being shot in the back I have wondered if he (cyclist) was approaching the crime scene (car) and passing the shooter as he was leaving and the cyclist got a good look at the shooter and the shooter then shot him in the back. idk jmo likely to change:blushing:

 

[Clio]

I think it was the police who opened the doors.The picture was taken in daylight and the forensic teams would have opened the doors.

The doors could have been left open as the smell inside the car would have been very strong.

Yes I think it's quite clear that the photos of the car were taken after the bodies had been removed and that's why the drivers door and hatchback are open. I was just responding to a poster who thought that the open door was the passenger door which it isn't.

My impression is that all of the car doors were closed when RAF man got to the scene. I have seen comments on here which suggest the doors were not only shut but were actually locked. I'm not sure that anything official has been released that would confirm they were locked, but I may have missed it.

 

[wfgodot]

Haven't you guys solved this yet?? Man, I go to the doctor, the bank, shop for groceries, and also buy stuff at Fiesta Mart, and it's still unsolved! (Not looking good for my cavalier, earlier-announced, "Arrests by the weekend" scenario right now, is it, lol.) Okay, I think someone was at the shooting site before the family arrived, and that was the shooter. One of the vehicles arrived afterward and was used for escape. That's my "wfgodot wrinkle" for today. Not based on logical surmise but on sheer guessing.

 

[masekwm]

I've been wondering if the killed told the 4 year old to hide under the burkha, so that she didn't see what was happening, they just didn't expect them to still be sat there 8 hours later.

I also find it amazing that no one in the car got out. Because of this, I think they reversed towards where the car ended up with the killer stood at the drivers window, driving round them and the driver was shot first, his foot remaining on the accelerator to keep the wheels spinning where it finally ended up. The rest of the family quickly shot.

I don't get how if the above happened that the other girl ended up outside the car