France - Five shot, four dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications #1

[wfgodot]

France shooting: alleged violent past of son of Alps murder victim (Telegraph)

The son of one of the victims of the British family massacre in France had allegedly attacked his parents and threatened to kill them in the past, it has emerged.
---
Haydar Thaher, 46, has a history of mental health problems.
---
His mother, Suhaila al-Allaf, 74, was killed along with her daughter Iqbal al-Hilli, 47, and son-in-law Saad al-Hilli, 50.
---
Neighbours at their flat said they had not seen the son for about a month while Swedish relatives said they believed he had travelled to England.

Documents from a local criminal court in Stockholm reveal Haydar was arrested on numerous occasions for alleged violent and threatening behaviour against his parents.
---
His parents allegedly told police they believed he was schizophrenic, that he had terrorised them since 2001 and threats were made on a daily basis.
---

more at the link above

Hmmm.....

 

[jjenny]

Interesting. This one is on the mother's side?
I presume that is not the relative they gave the little 4 year old to.

 

[Sillybilly]

Seems they are discounting Thaher as a possible perp:

from:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.cba98b9a0563fd9d5478d19a13da301a.321

Haydar Thaher, 46, had repeatedly "insulted, threatened and beaten his parents over a very long time", said one document.

Police had been called out to their home in the southern suburbs of Stockholm eight times between 2001 and 2007. Thaher still lived at home because of mental health problems, the documents added.

But a source close to the French-led inquiry into the shootings told AFP Thursday that "it was not worth focusing" on this new Swedish angle.

"It's not relevant," he said.

 

[jjenny]

Well they better know what's relevant then. So far it appears to me they haven't a clue.

 

[Lola68]

Inheritance is one reason why an entire family might be killed.

Possibly - but the person in line for the inheritance would have more success in getting it if the killling was made to look like an accident or even a robbery gone wrong. IMO this is a 'professional' assassination and the family were the target. And I think the whole family was killed as a warning, not for revenge - to send a message out (to who?) that this is what will happen if you do (what?)

 

[Clio]

I haven't seen any up close images of the car, so do not know if there is visible blood on car (if anybody has up close pictures of car I would like to see them)

Here's one of the better images

 

[Clio]

Anybody wonder why the Claygate home is being searched with a fine tooth comb and practically leaving no stone unturned.
Including the grounds? Sounds over the top for a family quarrel over an inheritance.
Ditto for robbery gone bad or crazed local psychopath.
My hunch is they are not only looking for information but also for stashed cash and/or any evidence of foreign bank accounts.
Wonder what they found in the safe.
Although it could just be an elimination process to ensure there are no technology leaks. Selling technology secrets to foreign governments but also to competing corporations via criminal underground characters, seldom ever directly, is big business.

Yes. Very intensive search - certainly more intensive that one would expect if they were just looking for documents/computers/financial records/wills etc

I noticed yesterday that they were drilling holes in the front porch soffits! And it seems they're still searching....

Kevin Keane‏@kkabdn
Back at Claygate but nothing to report.

 

[Waddles]

France shooting: alleged violent past of son of Alps murder victim (Telegraph)

more at the link above

Hmmm.....

interesting-however I checked French news and the wife's brother has been excluded as a suspect as he was in psychiatric care at the time of the shooting. Another odd factor in this mystery though!
http://lci.tf1.fr/france/faits-dive...e-il-n-y-a-pas-de-piste-suedoise-7524427.html according to "a source close to the investigation"

 

[Clio]

Sky News Newsdesk‏@SkyNewsBreak
Police: seven-year-old French Alps shooting survivor Zainab al-Hilli has left France

I hope she is going somewhere where she will be safe.

 

[Snoopster]

Google translation of article in Le Dauphine:

The police yesterday launched an appeal for witnesses Thursday for a Mitsubishi Pajero 4 X 4 dark, tinted rear windows and the registration in Great Britain. The vehicle was sighted on the A39 motorway, speeding towards Lyon, shortly after the killing of Horses, 9 days ago. According to a witness, the driver had "dark complexion" and "turbulent air".

(obviously "Horses" is Chavaline)

http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2012/09/14/la-police-lance-un-appel-a-temoin-concernant-un-4-x-4-mitsubishi-noir

Hmmm....British plates.

 

[rotterdam]

interesting-however I checked French news and the wife's brother has been excluded as a suspect as he was in psychiatric care at the time of the shooting. Another odd factor in this mystery though!
http://lci.tf1.fr/france/faits-dive...e-il-n-y-a-pas-de-piste-suedoise-7524427.html according to "a source close to the investigation"

Interesting. Well that leaves that relative out of 'sometimes" wild speculations.
I found this French article interesting about SAH accountant Mr Julian Stedman. His accountant since 2004.
He and his wife, found SAH trip to France bizarre. Apparently the eldest girl has a reading handicap and should not be missing school.
He also disclosed that SAH used 35 pounds for his billing hours which is a far cry from all his banker neighbors income. But he also states that he has since found out that SAH was apparently involved in other activities, previously unknown to him. Did not disclose what kind of activity.
Unless SAH has other legit income, not reported to his accountant, one does wonder. May be he had a second accountant.
He also expects Mrs Al-Hilli's sister Fadwa and her hubby to take care of the two girls in future.
http://www.ledauphine.com/france-mo...d-al-hilli-c-est-bizzare-qu-ils-soient-partis

 

[joe jones]

I wonder if they have been able to question the 7 year old girl before she was released from hospital in France to return to England, I wonder if she has been taken to a hospital in England for further treatment as she has gone from being in a sedated coma to being released from hospital in a relatively short time,

I did read one story that said the 4 year old was with social services not family so maybe neither girl will be returned to either side of the family till the issue of who did this has been resolved,

seems they are getting somewhere though with the appeal for the black 4 x 4 with British plates

 

[Elley Mae]

Possibly - but the person in line for the inheritance would have more success in getting it if the killling was made to look like an accident or even a robbery gone wrong. IMO this is a 'professional' assassination and the family were the target. And I think the whole family was killed as a warning, not for revenge - to send a message out (to who?) that this is what will happen if you do (what?)

I do agree with the "professional assassination" aspect, yet it would seem that the assassin would have known that there were 2 children. If I am counting correctly there are 12 shoots for sure, 2 to the back of the heads to 3 ppl then the bullet wound to the shoulder of the 7 yr old and 5 shoots to the back of the cyclist. It seems that the assassin did not have time to complete the mission. idk jmo

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Surely they would be able to check ferry terminal security cameras and cross reference that to 4x4s,even if the vehicle was dumped in France after the shooting theyd get it going across the channel.
And if it was on false plates again they could check that.Im sure ferry terminals will have a type of ANPR(automatic number plate recognition) system in place too..

 

[Clio]

Authorities in Grenoble said the seven-year-old girl, whose family was shot dead by a mystery gunman at the French Alps beauty spot, left hospital just after 8:15am (0615 GMT).

Police declined to confirm where the girl, who is feared to have been left blinded by the attack, has travelled to or who was with her.

It is understood she was accompanied by British police and is travelling back to the UK. She was being treated in hospital and was intubated due to massive bruising between her skull and her brain.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...bound-for-UK-after-Alps-hospital-release.html

From the same article

French police today dismissed reports that a British car being "driving erratically" on a motorway near Annecy was being linked to the case.

Then we have

martinbrunt‏@skymartinbrunt
#franceshooting French police looking for a British-registered black Mitsubishi Pajero 4x4 seen heading towawrds Swiss border.

martinbrunt‏@skymartinbrunt
#franceshooting The Mitsubishi police are searching for is a 20-year-old model, silver and blue, J-reg.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Surely on discovering the scene and speaking to the british cyclist they would have alerted all border crossings?..

 

[joe jones]

one thing that does confuse me is that if someone was hired to murder the whole family then they must have been told there were 2 children and both were to be killed, why then did they miss one child and not shoot the other in the head as they did with the adults to ensure they were dead

leaving either of the children alive meant that they will inherit any family money so if it was done to get the inheritance then a poor job was done

also it cannot have been done by somebody who was watching the family as they would have also seen 2 girls and thus would have made sure to find and kill everybody in car

I doubt the 4 year old was spared, she was just not spotted in my opinion as they were prepared to batter a 7 year old in the head to kill her when they may have run out of bullets, the 4 year old would have received the same fate if it was known she was in the car

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Surely on discovering the scene and speaking to the british cyclist they would have alerted all border crossings?..

That's the thing with Europe, there isn't much control anymore between borders. You can drive fairly freely between countries now. I remember driving through southern Germany, suddenly realizing I was in Switzerland and then later there I was in Austria - no controls. You don't even need a passport to travel on the plane between EU countries IF you are an EU resident. Very easily could have gone anywhere really which makes it really hard.

It sure seems this girl was released rather quickly. One would think they would keep her for observation. I hope the latest news on her is only for her protection and not what what has truly happened.

 

[Elley Mae]

After listening to Mr Martin I take (jmo) from what he said that the 7 yr old was in the front passenger seat, the two women and four yr old was in the back. If that is the case then I can see the 7 yr old in the front taking the shoot to the shoulder (iirc) while in the vehicle. The killer then could have seen the cyclist and unloaded on him then seeing the 7 yr old emerge from the vehicle and pistol whipping her, thinking she was dead then leaving. She surely had to have seen the killer. jmo

 

[Clio]

martinbrunt‏@skymartinbrunt
#franceshooting Survivor Zainab al-Hilli tells French investigators she saw only one attacker

Wasn't going to post this as I was starting to doubt some of Skys Mr B's info after the reported car info earlier today. However I saw a report a little earlier in a french paper which also says Zainab saw only one assailent - that page is now no longer available.

So I wonder if info is leaking and then getting stamped on.