France - Five shot, four dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications #1

[Lola68]

one thing that does confuse me is that if someone was hired to murder the whole family then they must have been told there were 2 children and both were to be killed, why then did they miss one child and not shoot the other in the head as they did with the adults to ensure they were dead

leaving either of the children alive meant that they will inherit any family money so if it was done to get the inheritance then a poor job was done

also it cannot have been done by somebody who was watching the family as they would have also seen 2 girls and thus would have made sure to find and kill everybody in car

I doubt the 4 year old was spared, she was just not spotted in my opinion as they were prepared to batter a 7 year old in the head to kill her when they may have run out of bullets, the 4 year old would have received the same fate if it was known she was in the car

Or they knew there were 2 children, but French cyclist interrupted them so hitman had to shoot cyclist, ran out of bullets so hit 7 year old round head, couldn't see 4 year old so left in a panic? Bungled hit

 

[Clio]

I've been wondering if the killed told the 4 year old to hide under the burkha, so that she didn't see what was happening, they just didn't expect them to still be sat there 8 hours later.

I also find it amazing that no one in the car got out. Because of this, I think they reversed towards where the car ended up with the killer stood at the drivers window, driving round them and the driver was shot first, his foot remaining on the accelerator to keep the wheels spinning where it finally ended up. The rest of the family quickly shot.

I don't get how if the above happened that the other girl ended up outside the car

Me neither. Very far fetched but was she kidnapped and used to lure the family to the car park......

 

[Clio]

Thanks for that.
They are obviously looking for something.Memory sticks or something small?

Here you go. At bottom of article

One cop drilled into the front porch of the house in Claygate, Surrey, and fed in a small video camera in the hunt for clues.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ne-of-French-Alps-massacre.html#ixzz26TcKRPjJ

 

[Saturn]

I'm intrigued why they have the need to drill small holes and insert micro-cams.......were there rooms that were inaccessible to the first searches that could be booby trapped? Surely, if you had booby trapped a room you would want any snooper to walk right in unaware.

Drugs? no need for drilling and cameras there, just send in the sniffer dogs.

Drugs/documents with possible booby traps in the cavity walls....hmm, maybe.

I can understand them maybe putting a micro-cam up into the loft space before entering, but the area above the porch taking them up to probably a first floor bedroom (2nd floor to US posters) that has probably already been searched.

Any ideas what they could be after?

 

[Skigh]

I'm intrigued why they have the need to drill small holes and insert micro-cams.......were there rooms that were inaccessible to the first searches that could be booby trapped? Surely, if you had booby trapped a room you would want any snooper to walk right in unaware.

Drugs? no need for drilling and cameras there, just send in the sniffer dogs.

Drugs/documents with possible booby traps in the cavity walls....hmm, maybe.

I can understand them maybe putting a micro-cam up into the loft space before entering, but the area above the porch taking them up to probably a first floor bedroom (2nd floor to US posters) that has probably already been searched.

Any ideas what they could be after?

micro cams need not indicate booby traps -just a way of checking nothing is hidden in that place.

Big question is what are they looking for that could be concealed in that sort of place.

They were looking in the garden borders.

The sort of search they are doing is similar to that they would do if a murder had happened in the house.

 

[joe jones]

news is reporting tonight that 7 year old has said there was just one bad man at the scene,

 

[Sillybilly]

just another theory <sigh>

I'm wondering if whatever LE is looking for was possibly taken by Mr. al-Hilli on the camping trip to transfer/exchange/sell to someone in a pre-arranged meeting, and the "bad man" wiped out the family to either avoid payment or avoid details ever being leaked about the transaction.

Also, with Mr. Martin's stance that he saw nothing, combined with word that little Zaina might possibly lose her sight ... i.e. neither being able to identify a perp .. hopefully mis-information from LE that can result in apprehending the monster who did this.

 

[tiredblondy]

What do we know about the man murdered?

 

[Sillybilly]

from Elly Mae's link above:

Possible motives for the execution-style murders include the family&#8217;s Middle Eastern origins, al-Hilli&#8217;s work as a telecommunications engineer and an alleged dispute with his brother Zaid over an inheritance, something French police say he has denied.

<bbm>

IF there was in fact a dispute over inheritance that others seem to have been made aware of, and the brother is flatout denying there was one .. hmmm, bit of a red flag there?

 

[joe jones]

there has been documents seen that show that Mr Al Hilli removed his brother from one of his comapnies and replaced him with his wife, there was that one letter reported that revealed the brother making disparaging comments about Mr Al Hilli and words to the effect that he wished him dead, not sure when the letter was written

there are huge disparities in lifestyle, Mr Al Hilli has a very large home his broither and family life in a flat, may be some resentment there, there father has died and he has left an inheritance may also be issues there,

I think looking at the brother should be part of the investigation but I personally would be suprised if it is familial,

 

[Snoopster]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...bound-for-UK-after-Alps-hospital-release.html

From the same article



Then we have

martinbrunt&#8207;@skymartinbrunt
#franceshooting French police looking for a British-registered black Mitsubishi Pajero 4x4 seen heading towawrds Swiss border.

martinbrunt&#8207;@skymartinbrunt
#franceshooting The Mitsubishi police are searching for is a 20-year-old model, silver and blue, J-reg.

Sorry, Martin.

Cops yesterday RULED OUT a theory that a black Mitsubishi Pajero 4x4 with British number plates was the getaway car.

Detectives continued to comb for clues at the family&#8217;s £1million home in Claygate, Surrey, but the search appeared to have been scaled back.


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...d-guy-says-brave-Alps-girl.html#ixzz26Uu3E8n1

Caps NOT by me (actually in the article).

 

[SophieRose]

Yes I think it's quite clear that the photos of the car were taken after the bodies had been removed and that's why the drivers door and hatchback are open. I was just responding to a poster who thought that the open door was the passenger door which it isn't.

My impression is that all of the car doors were closed when RAF man got to the scene. I have seen comments on here which suggest the doors were not only shut but were actually locked. I'm not sure that anything official has been released that would confirm they were locked, but I may have missed it.

I've read elsewhere, too, that the car doors were locked. So if true, how did they get locked with the 7-year-old outside the car?

 

[kiwi50]

there has been documents seen that show that Mr Al Hilli removed his brother from one of his comapnies and replaced him with his wife, there was that one letter reported that revealed the brother making disparaging comments about Mr Al Hilli and words to the effect that he wished him dead, not sure when the letter was written

there are huge disparities in lifestyle, Mr Al Hilli has a very large home his broither and family life in a flat, may be some resentment there, there father has died and he has left an inheritance may also be issues there,

I think looking at the brother should be part of the investigation but I personally would be suprised if it is familial,

Can anyone provide a link ( in English, my schoolgirl French no longer works) that says the wife's brother was in psychiatric care at time of killings.

i'm a great fan of Occam's Razor and haven't eliminated either of the couple's brothers from my suspects.
Both raise big red flags for me, husband's brother because of the inheritance issue, and wifes brother because of his mental state.
Lucky these two suspects aren't brothers, what a dangerous pair they would be.

 

[wfgodot]

Can anyone provide a link ( in English, my schoolgirl French no longer works) that says the wife's brother was in psychiatric care at time of killings.

Here's the link and the translation of the relevant graf (translation by the Google "translate this page" feature - imperfect, but certainly better than my French; and with me attempting to smooth things over in the brackets):

"The track was soon discarded [by the] Swedish simply by what [because] Thaher Haydar was interned at the time the incident occurred," says TF1 News source close to the same folder [source?].

from TF1 News

This info may be elsewhere as well, but I don't think I've seen it (or saw it and forgot it - entirely possible!).

 

[SophieRose]

I've been wondering if the killed told the 4 year old to hide under the burkha, so that she didn't see what was happening, they just didn't expect them to still be sat there 8 hours later.

I also find it amazing that no one in the car got out. Because of this, I think they reversed towards where the car ended up with the killer stood at the drivers window, driving round them and the driver was shot first, his foot remaining on the accelerator to keep the wheels spinning where it finally ended up. The rest of the family quickly shot.

I don't get how if the above happened that the other girl ended up outside the car

Were the women in burkas? Can't remember the exact words the campsite neighbors described the family dress when they left but it was something like "smart clothes," but that's not it. One campsite neighbor said the grandmother had been seen in a black dress and black head covering during the week.

 

[SophieRose]

there has been documents seen that show that Mr Al Hilli removed his brother from one of his comapnies and replaced him with his wife, there was that one letter reported that revealed the brother making disparaging comments about Mr Al Hilli and words to the effect that he wished him dead, not sure when the letter was written

there are huge disparities in lifestyle, Mr Al Hilli has a very large home his broither and family life in a flat, may be some resentment there, there father has died and he has left an inheritance may also be issues there,

I think looking at the brother should be part of the investigation but I personally would be suprised if it is familial,

Actually the letter was not written by Saad Al Hilli's brother, but by Saad himself. In the letter, written Sept 16, 2011, Saad wrote that his brother Zaid was a control freak and that he "just has to wipe him out of his life."

 

[Sillybilly]

from:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/vie...ipe-my-control-freak-brother-out-of-my-life-/

While making the letter available to the authorities, Mrs El-Wailly said she did not believe Zaid had anything to do with the killings. Saad had written: &#8220;Zaid and I do not communicate any more as he is another control freak.

&#8220;He tried to take control of father&#8217;s assets and demanded control.

&#8220;Anyway, it is a long story and now I have just had to wipe him out of my life. Sad but I need to concentrate now on my wife and two lovely girls...&#8221;

<bbm>

Would be interesting to know who "another control freak" might be.

 

[rotterdam]

Can anyone provide a link ( in English, my schoolgirl French no longer works) that says the wife's brother was in psychiatric care at time of killings.

i'm a great fan of Occam's Razor and haven't eliminated either of the couple's brothers from my suspects.
Both raise big red flags for me, husband's brother because of the inheritance issue, and wifes brother because of his mental state.
Lucky these two suspects aren't brothers, what a dangerous pair they would be.

Here is another link. It states that the wacky brother of Mrs Al-Hilli was hospitalized in UK during the massacre. Might explain why folks in Sweden reported not seeing him for a month
But Haydar Thaher, 46, has apparently been ruled out as the shooter as he "was hospitalised in Britain when the killings took place".

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...only-one-bad-guy/story-fn3dxix6-1226474624997

 

[rotterdam]

I'm intrigued why they have the need to drill small holes and insert micro-cams.......were there rooms that were inaccessible to the first searches that could be booby trapped? Surely, if you had booby trapped a room you would want any snooper to walk right in unaware.

Drugs? no need for drilling and cameras there, just send in the sniffer dogs.

Drugs/documents with possible booby traps in the cavity walls....hmm, maybe.

I can understand them maybe putting a micro-cam up into the loft space before entering, but the area above the porch taking them up to probably a first floor bedroom (2nd floor to US posters) that has probably already been searched.

Any ideas what they could be after?

Man, ditto here. May be some high security tech stuff was breached at Mr. Al-Hilli work place and they have some clue what they are looking for. May be something had been missing recently before but SAH was no suspect at that time. May be SAH had some dirt on somebody else and was hiding that in his house and cashing in on that.
There are so really many possibilities. Oodles of maybe's in this ever changing story.
Do not think any booby traps though with two small children in the house who tend to get in everything.

 

[rotterdam]

Were the women in burkas? Can't remember the exact words the campsite neighbors described the family dress when they left but it was something like "smart clothes," but that's not it. One campsite neighbor said the grandmother had been seen in a black dress and black head covering during the week.

I believe the French investigators stated they were dressed in city clothes, and rather formal when found. Never have I seen any reference to burqas in any news article. Neighbors in Claygate stated that Mrs Al-Hilli did wear long skirts and had her arms covered but family was very westernized. Many women nowadays wear long skirts regardless of religion. Especially aging Hippies LOL.
There was a picture of an unidentified female relative with younger girl grieving in front of the Al-Hilli's house. The elder woman was dressed in long dark skirt but no burqa.