Found Deceased GA - Bud, 69, & June Runion, 66, McRae, 22 Jan 2015 #2 *Arrest*

[dancinunderthemoon]

3. Why would anyone frame him? Pure hatred.

Do you think he acted alone?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Okay, I found the comment that led me to believe they met in Jacksonville... I thought that it was reported as fact that RT met Bud and led him to his place.

I'm confused.

the red is me, the bold is the article quotes from the article posted which I was responding to

thank you, I'm confused too

 

[shefner]

Do you think he acted alone?

Well, My theories are works in progress.

If Jay did this, I doubt he acted totally alone.

If Jay was framed, then I highly doubt it was one person acting alone to frame him.

Does any of that make any sense?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Tough to shake that thought, huh?

*sigh

I agree.

Yes, I've had them all along, but my mind can't go both ways at once

 

[SweetPea60]

Exactly. There are so many elements that we may never know because the only ones who could tell us are either dead or doesn't want to self-incriminate. Anyone looking for a little attention could say they saw the Runions here or there.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I agree the simplest theory is probably the right one, but there is just stuff that doesn't add up for me. The phone pings that went south of McRae? Who had the phone?

If it was a set up, then who? why? why was Jay the fall guy? Not that it'd be hard to set him up, but then where is that motive? Say he was set up by say a drug buddy, real perp sends Jay to buy burner phone. Jay is seen on camera buying burner phone so he's the #1 suspect. Real perp then murders Runions and leaves all the evidence at Jay's house, taking only actual cash. Real perp then gets money, gets Jay out of the way and has no one to identify him by murdering the Runions. Or Jay did it, which does seem most plausible.

Things that bug me

1. Runions don't know name of seller
2. Runions don't have VIN and got scammed despite reportedly being cautious
3. Jay arranged for them to come to his own place
4. bodies weren't hidden, car wasn't hidden
5. burner phone pinged south of McRae yet there is nothing indicating Jay ever went there

oh yeah, and where is his alibi??

 

[Peliman]

I brought it up, because I was wondering how they knew it was registered to RT if he didnt' have to show ID to someone to turn it on

who turns it on? If he thought it wasn't traceable, did he give his name to someone or just go online and signup, then why would he think it's not traceable back to him??

So it makes sense someone could have bought the phone in his name as someone else mentioned, then the question is still, why did LE know whose phone it was if there was no name or ID for SOMETHING associated with the phone

I believe at the point of sale the upc is scanned and then an activation code or IMEI for gsm phones. The esn id is used for cdma networks. A burner phone is really nothing more than a prepaid phone which uses common large networks.Sometimes Mobile virtual network operators (MVNOs) in the United States lease wireless telephone and data spectrum from major carriers such as AT&T Mobility, Sprint Corporation, T-Mobile US, and Verizon Wireless for resale.

So every cell phone has a unique ID by phone and computers allowing it to be used on a network. While the purchaser of the phone can use a false ID to identify themselves, the phone itself is traceable back to the point of sale.

Here's where it gets tricky. Most stores but not all use point of sale surveillance and can retrieve the receipt giving them info on the sale like time of day, how it was paid for and that IMEI or ESN number scanned. They can then match up the surveillance video to the day and time of sale and possibly ID the person who purchased the phone.

IMO this is what occurred and LE isn't willing to share that info. MOO

 

[SiberianSleuth]

RT's father mentioned someone went into the woods with him to get RT but was hesitant to mention the persons name. Or did I just make that up in my head?
id like to know who that was. Seems odd to me we haven't heard from more "friends."

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://clevelandbanner.com/stories/a-link-to-cleveland-murdered-couple-has-family-here,1445

" Telfair County personnel told the Cleveland Daily Banner on Tuesday “... the vehicle was discovered in a small lake in close proximity to the Ocmulgee River.”

A McRae resident was able to provide more personalized detail, saying, “They found their car in a no-named pond out past the Workmore community,” which is a few miles south of the town of McRae. "

Didn't the Sheriff say they tracked his phone south of McRae?

If they tracked the phone to the Workmore Community area he must have still had it on him the day her murdered them.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I believe at the point of sale the upc is scanned and then an activation code or IMEI for gsm phones. The esn id is used for cdma networks. A burner phone is really nothing more than a prepaid phone which uses common large networks.Sometimes Mobile virtual network operators (MVNOs) in the United States lease wireless telephone and data spectrum from major carriers such as AT&T Mobility, Sprint Corporation, T-Mobile US, and Verizon Wireless for resale.

So every cell phone has a unique ID by phone and computers allowing it to be used on a network. While the purchaser of the phone can use a false ID to identify themselves, the phone itself is traceable back to the point of sale.

Here's where it gets tricky. Most stores but not all use point of sale surveillance and can retrieve the receipt giving them info on the sale like time of day, how it was paid for and that IMEI or ESN number scanned. They can then match up the surveillance video to the day and time of sale and possibly ID the person who purchased the phone.

IMO this is what occurred and LE isn't willing to share that info. MOO

Thank you

So is an ID sometimes required when purchasing a drop/burner/prepaid phone? (aren't they all the same basically?)

If the person wanted to make it more difficult to be traced, they'd pay cash and hope there were no cameras at point of purchase but you still will be linked to whomever you contacted using that phone or whomever contacted you, so that's where AT&T could come in, by simply seeing the last contacts before the Runions left and call them back or trace them with the phone ID # and to where it was purchased, with or without a name (?)

 

[shefner]

RT's father mentioned someone went into the woods with him to get RT but was hesitant to mention the persons name. Or did I just make that up in my head?
id like to know who that was. Seems odd to me we haven't heard from more "friends."

Nope, that's what ya heard.....

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Didn't the Sheriff say they tracked his phone south of McRae?

If they tracked the phone to the Workmore Community area he must have still had it on him the day her murdered them.

does workmore road ( i think i saw that on maps) cross webb cemetery rd (217)? I'll double check

 

[Cinnamon]

thank you, no I simply was wondering if it had his name attached to it somehow in regards to the ID statement, was not quoting anything there

Also, it might have been on the cobb county FB someone posted earlier about, giving warnings of these scams, said that all drop phones are traceable and people think they aren't, I'd never even thought about it until all of this occurred

WoW, if LE did call that number , however it was discovered, it's pretty damming if RT picked up the call OR if they used video surveillance and saw him make a phone purchase

was there mention somewhere that AT&T wasn't being cooperative? maybe on Runion FB, so they could find the last numbers contacted by the RUnions on the bill, not sure how soon that info goes online to the billing site

still wondering why the runions never called RT or if they did.......instead of asking for directions, thankfully they did tho or LE may still be looking for them

You're welcome! Yes, ALL cell phones are traceable by their internal SN. If you are on a contract or month-to-month. where you pay a monthly bill, then it is easy for LE to get your info, BUT they need a search warrant first, once they have it the provider will give them your info. I used to work for one of the big cell companies, and they took that very seriously. No one, not even LE, can just call customer service for info on somebody's account. If LE called in requesting info, we immediately transferred them to the legal dept. Hadn't heard about AT&T not cooperating, but if LE didn't have a search warrant, that would explain that. Imo.

But with pre-paid/disposable phones, it's totally different. Yes, the SN can still be traced,,, to the phone's manufacturer, the provider, and the store where it was sold. But, unless the owner went online to create an account (some people do because that is their primary phone, not to be used as a burner for crime), the specific owner would be hard to trace, imo. If you create an online account, it's easier to load new minutes with your credit card, check your usage, etc. If there was an online account, I would imagine it would be easy for LE to get the info, (search warrant still required), and the provider would release your info. Also, if the phone was initially purchased with a credit card, that's another traceable link.

IF, I was a criminal, I would used cash, I would NOT create an online account for my burner, and I would NOT answer the phone that was purchased to commit a crime! Not sure exactly what they have, but I agree, it's apparently pretty damning! Maybe we'll get more facts soon.

ETA: Thanks to oceanblueeyes for the link below. Apparently, LE does NOT require a search warrant/probable-cause warrant to track pre-paid phones:

Lose The Burners: Court Okays Prepaid Phone Tracking
http://www.informationweek.com/mobil...d/d-id/1105814

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

does workmore road ( i think i saw that on maps) cross webb cemetery rd (217)? I'll double check

no it doesn't but it's north of RT property not too far

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.as...BJTIwMzEwNTVfX19lXyZtb2RlPUQmcnRvcD0wfjB+MH4=

 

[m1nn0w]

RT's father mentioned someone went into the woods with him to get RT but was hesitant to mention the persons name. Or did I just make that up in my head?
id like to know who that was. Seems odd to me we haven't heard from more "friends."

If I recall, during the interview with the father/sister/mother, the father was recalling the surrender process, calling RT out of the woods. When he said something to the effect of not mentioning someone's name, I took it to mean he wasn't naming the specific agent or the name of the law enforcement official with whom he had been speaking to regarding the surrender.

 

[Peliman]

Hi, I'm new here. I am in the Atlanta area. I have read all of the posts. I also retired from bellsouth like Bud Runion. At BellSouth everyone called him Sarge. He was a manager. Extremely liked by everyone. I personally did not know him. Here are some facts and questions.
1. RTs mother had just gotten out of hospital from brain surgery.
2. RT was separated from wife. Why? What happened.
3. I don't care how dumb you are do you lure someone to your home to rob them?
4. Older veterans sometimes think they are invincible, I was married to one, but rarely do they take their spouses into harms way.
5. Were there other people involved in the divorce.
6. More later
Thanks for letting me join in.

Welcome Doravillegirl,

Being one of those more mature vets having ear wax older than many here I agree with the bolded statement. Especially vets who have served time in combat zones. This crime has caused me to rethink what some maybe considered riskier behavior but I doubt it will change me, I might be a bit more careful.

 

[shefner]

If I recall, during the interview with the father/sister/mother, the father was recalling the surrender process, calling RT out of the woods. When he said something to the effect of not mentioning someone's name, I took it to mean he wasn't naming the specific agent or the name of the law enforcement official with whom he had been speaking to regarding the surrender.

I need to go listen again. I took it to mean that someone was with out there with him helping him seek Jay out. And he didn't want to say that person's name.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank you

So is an ID sometimes required when purchasing a drop/burner/prepaid phone? (aren't they all the same basically?)

If the person wanted to make it more difficult to be traced, they'd pay cash and hope there were no cameras at point of purchase but you still will be linked to whomever you contacted using that phone or whomever contacted you, so that's where AT&T could come in, by simply seeing the last contacts before the Runions left and call them back or trace them with the phone ID # and to where it was purchased, with or without a name (?)

This site says that prepaid phones can be tracked and the US Supreme Court has said that a warrant isn't necessarily for LE to have when tracking the prepaid phone.

Lose The Burners: Court Okays Prepaid Phone Tracking

http://www.informationweek.com/mobi...t-okays-prepaid-phone-tracking/d/d-id/1105814

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

You're welcome! Yes, ALL cell phones are traceable by their internal SN. If you are on a contract or month-to-month. where you pay a monthly bill, then it is easy for LE to get your info, BUT they need a search warrant first, once they have it the provider will give them your info. I used to work for one of the big cell companies, and they took that very seriously. No one, not even LE, can just call customer service for info on somebody's account. If LE called in requesting info, we immediately transferred them to the legal dept. Hadn't heard about AT&T not cooperating, but if LE didn't have a search warrant, that would explain that. Imo.

But with pre-paid/disposable phones, it's totally different. Yes, the SN can still be traced,,, to the phone's manufacturer, the provider, and the store where it was sold. But, unless the owner went online to create an account (some people do because that is their primary phone, not to be used as a burner for crime), the specific owner would be hard to trace, imo. If you create an online account, it's easier to load new minutes with your credit card, check your usage, etc. If there was an online account, I would imagine it would be easy for LE to get the info, (search warrant still required), and the provider would release your info. Also, if the phone was initially purchased with a credit card, that's another traceable link.

IF, I was a criminal, I would used cash, I would NOT create an online account for my burner, and I would NOT answer the phone that was purchased to commit a crime! Not sure exactly what they have, but I agree, it's apparently pretty damning! Maybe we'll get more facts soon.

Yes agreed! So maybe the Runions could not reach him by phone the reason they stopped and asked questions at the antique store and probably were thinking cell reception was probably bad in that area of land and farms, JMO

ATT info was not on MSM sites that I know of, but I still wondered how LE or the children got the information so quickly and yes it took Sheriff Sills in eatonton months to get phone records, IIRC, so wondered how this was so quick in regards to getting info, fri to saturday, however that occurred, on this phone, just thinking the children somewhow tracked down the last numbers her parents had contact with, with a 229 area code, or would the area code on a drop phone be from the city you purchase it or from the company??

ThANKS again!!





ALL JMO or inquires!

Just wondering if the children of the Runions

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I need to go listen again. I took it to mean that someone was with out there with him helping him seek Jay out. And he didn't want to say that person's name.

I think he meant he didn't want to say the name of the GBI agent who was working with him.

From what I have read only his father went into the woods to retrieve him.