GA - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 10 counts in 2020 election interference, violation of RICO Act, 14 Aug 2023

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Arkay said:
Interesting.

If I were the judge I’d toss it on the grounds that Mark Meadows may have been “nimble” in giving Trump advice, but “effective?”

Is it “effective” to give advice that aids and abets a conspiratorial insurrection?

JMO
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Meadows wasn't just speaking; he was also taking action by contacting people and attempting to persuade them to find votes/use alternate elector slates (ie: encouraging them to break the law) as well. He is charged as the conspirator he acted as.

And we all know that he Supremacy Clause does not allow for the President or any of his employees to commit a crime or attempt to overturn the will of the people (that's an insurection/attempt to deny a duly elected government by the people and for the people).

IMO, this will be swiftly denied.
 
From page 10 of their own filing:
A federal official—including a former official in service at the time of the charged conduct—is immune when the charged conduct has “‘some nexus with furthering federal policy and can reasonably be characterized as complying with the full range of federal law.’” Kordash, 51 F.4th at 1293 (quoting Denson, 574 F.3d at 1348
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IMO, this is where he will fail as the charged conduct doesn't comply with the full range of federal law.
 
Vern said:
From page 10 of their own filing:

IMO, this is where he will fail as the charged conduct doesn't comply with the full range of federal law.
Click to expand...
This article was a good explainer (I thought) of why the alleged conduct had nothing to do with his job as chief of staff:

www.brookings.edu

Why Mark Meadows’ removal bid is an uphill climb

Mark Meadows will have a very steep hill to climb if he is to be successful in removing the case from Georgia.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu
 
Hoosgirl said:
This article was a good explainer (I thought) of why the alleged conduct had nothing to do with his job as chief of staff:

www.brookings.edu

Why Mark Meadows’ removal bid is an uphill climb

Mark Meadows will have a very steep hill to climb if he is to be successful in removing the case from Georgia.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu
Click to expand...
Whether it goes to Federal court or stays in Georgia court, the prosecutor still has to prove criminal intent. It is not criminal to dispute election results following an election. <modsnip: off topic>
 
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Inthedetails said:
The Georgia indictment lists what Mark Meadows is charged with. He is not charged with disputing election results through legal means.

The Georgia indictment document is here:

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org
Click to expand...
Mark Meadows is charged with:

Violation of Georgia RICO Act
Solicitation of Violation of Oath by Public Officer

He is not charged with legally questioning the outcome of an election.

Source: DocumentCloud
 
I still believe Fani Willis has as close to a slam dunk case against a former president as one could conceivably get and I think proving criminal intent through consciousness of guilt will probably be a breeze. But if Trump et al would like to claim they had a genuine, absolute belief that there was mass fraud and the election was stolen, they would very likely have to testify.

That'll be fun. I'm sure it'll happen right after Trump submits his magical report to the court as evidence. JMO
 
The Supreme Court of the United States has rejected all of the 2020 election challenges that it has received:

apnews.com

Supreme Court rejects Trump election challenge cases

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court on Monday rejected a handful of cases related to the 2020 election, including disputes from Pennsylvania that had deeply divided the justices just before the election.
apnews.com apnews.com

The 2020 Election has been fully and legally decided. Biden won. Trump lost. Trump has also lost each and every legal challenge he launched all the way to the US Supreme Court.

Having lost all legal challenges, and thereby legal means to obtain the outcome he wanted, Trump and his co-conspirators are now indicted for attempting to illegaly obtain the resuts they wanted via pressuring state officials to "find 10 800 votes", suborning the illegal act of gathering and compiling Sets of Fake Electors for various states and illegally accessing, compromising and sharing voting equipment in Georgia. Never before has this occured.

They have yet to be found guilty or innocent.

They have been indicted for these alleged crimes and conspiracy; the jurors of legally selected American citizens will decide the outcome.

Never before has a contested election resulted in the aftermath of November 2019 or January 6th 2020. Gore conceded in December (5 weeks post-election) as soon as the USSC ruled. We are still waiting for Mr. Trump to do so.


Edit: Typo - SLE has my hands not working right lately; my apologies everyone.
 
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www.palmbeachpost.com

Close election? In 2000, all eyes were on Florida, and Palm Beach County because of the butterfly ballot

The 2000 election recount: Where are they now: Theresa LePore, Katherine Harris, Pat Buchanan, John Bolton, James A. Baker III, and many others.
www.palmbeachpost.com


My parents live in Palm Beach County, site of the infamous hanging chads in the 2000 election of Bush vs. Gore.

Those ballots had a punchcard vote. Even my parents, who back then were relatively young and very healthy, but also new to Florida and its ways, were somewhat confused by the ballot. The candidates’ names were in a kind of butterfly pattern and it was easy to punch through the chad for the candidate they did NOT want.

The exact reason that there was no RICO case surrounding the controversy is because no RICO crime was committed. Nor any crime at all.

As the late Tim Russert said, the election would come down to “Florida, Florida, Florida.” Florida was the only state in which there was not a clear victory, as there was a difference of some 500+ votes out of 20,000,000 cast.

Gore was entitled to a recount. The problem was the punchcards. Some chads were “hanging“ rather than clearly punched through, so a hand count was laboriously done.

When all was said and done and the Supreme Court ruled for Bush, Gore graciously conceded.

Gore did NOT:
1) abuse the legislators, attorneys or judges involved
2) abuse his opponent, George W. Bush
3) Encourage his supporters to go to the Capitol and protest and attempt to halt the vote certification
4) Call election officials and imply they’d be arrested if they didn’t “find” him votes
5) insist his staff and supporters seize voting machines
6) defame and gratuitously insult anyone who supported Bush rather than himself
7) conspire to fabricate evidence to declare he had won
8) smile fondly as his supporters threatened the lives of those who said he had lost the election
9) amass fake electors to barge into the Capitol and impersonate actual electors
10) enourage his supporters to threaten to hang anyone already in office

Etcetera.

No crime=no RICO necessary.

The election of 2000 is not comparable to the election of 2020.

When I wake up tomorrow, I’m going to be turning 66 years old.
I don’t have enough breaths left to waste on repetition.


JMO
 
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Read-along continues with the Georgia Indictment

Count 1: Violation of Georgia RICO Act
All 19 defendants, including the former president, several lawyers, a pastor, the former White House Chief of Staff, are charged with this count.

There are 161 acts under this count and I'm taking note of them one by one. Any bolding and any mistakes are by me

NOTE: December 30, 2020 was a big day for lies and crimes. The Georgia Senate Judiciary Subcommittee met:

100. Dec 30, 2020: Trump tweeted "Hearing from Atlanta on the Georgia Election overturn now being broadcast. Check it out @OANN @newsmax and many more. @BrianKempGA should resign from office. He is an obstructionist who refuses to admit that we won Georgia, BIG! And won the other Swing States."

101. Dec 30, 2020: Trump tweeted, "Hearings from Atlanta on the GA Election overturn now being broadcast LIVE via @RSBNetwork! https://t.c./ogBvLbkfqG." (Note: this link no longer works afaik, but I linked the RSBN stream of the hearings below.)

102. Dec 30, 2020: Rudy, Ray Smith (Trump campaign attorney) and Robert Cheeley (lawyer) committed felony of Solicitation of Violation of Oath by Public Officer in Fulton County, Georgia by soliciting public officers serving as elected members of Georgia Senate and present at the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting to engage in felony Violation of Oath of Public Officer by unlawfully appointing presidential electors.

103. Dec 30, 2020: Rudy committed the felony of False Statements and Writings in Fulton County, Georgia by unlawfully making at least one of the following false statement to Georgia Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting:

* That Fulton County election workers fraudulently counted ballots as many as five times as State Farm Arena on Nov 3, 2020. (Reminder: this is false.)
* That 2,560 felons voted illegally in presidential election in Georgia. (Reminder: this is false.)
* That 10,315 dead people voted in presidential election in Georgia. (Reminder: this is false.)
This was an act of racketeering.

104. Dec 30, 2020: Ray Smith (Trump campaign attorney) committed the felony False Statements and Writings in Fulton County, Georgia by unlawfully making at least one of the following false statements to members of the Georgia Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting:

* Georgia Secretary of State General Counsel Ryan Germany stated his office sent letters to 8,000 people who voted illegally in the presidential election and told them not to vote in the Jan 5, 2021 run off. (Reminder: false.)
Note what Ryan Germany actually did: "During a December 23 hearing held on Zoom, Germany addressed the numbers of illegal votes the Trump campaign has claimed were cast during the presidential election in Georgia. 'We are seeing from our initial investigation there is nowhere close to what the Trump campaign is saying and it’s going to be nowhere close to anything that would put the result in question,' Germany said." Source is linked below. I'm sure there are other sources with even more information for those who want to look.)

* Georgia Secretary of State admitted "they had a 90% accuracy rate" in the presidential election" and "there's still a 10% margin that's not accurate." (Reminder: false.)
Note what the Georgia Secretary of State actually did: "Following the November 2020 General Election, the Secretary of State selected the presidential contest for a statewide risk limiting audit ("RLA"). Due to the tight margin of the race and the principles of risk-limiting audits, this audit was a full manual tally of all votes cast. The audit confirmed that the original machine count accurately portrayed the winner of the election." Source linked below.)
This was an act of racketeering.

105. Dec 30, 2020: Robert Cheeley (lawyer) committed felony offense of False Statements and Writings in Fulton County, Georgia by unlawfully making at least one of the following false statements to members of the Georgia Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting:

* Poll watchers and media at State Farm Arena were told late in the evening of Nov 3, 2020 that the vote count was suspended until the next morning and to go home because of "a major watermain break." (Reminder: false.)
* Fulton County election workers at State Farm Arena "voted" the same ballots "over and over again" on Nov 3. (Reminder: false.)
This was an act of racketeering.

106. Dec 30, 2020: Trump tweeted "We now have far more votes that needed to flip Georgia in the Presidential race. Massive VOTER FRAUD took place. Thank you to the Georgia Legislature for today's revealing meeting!" (Reminder: felonies were allegedly committed at the meeting the former president so desperately wanted people to watch.)


Notes taken from Georgia Indictment, pages 46-48

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org

Regarding Ryan Germany: Ryan Germany: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

GA Secretary of State info about 2020 audit: 2020 General Election Risk-Limiting Audit | Georgia Secretary of State

Bonus: Georgia Senate meeting, including felonies allegedly committed.
 
<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
Could you please provide a link for the bolded portion showing that a RICO conspiracy had to “continue until caught.” I can‘t find anything (yet) in the Georgia RICO law that says that. It doesn’t make sense that someone couldn‘t be charged under RICO if their conspiracy to commit a crime had stopped before being caught. RICO doesn’t require the conspiracy to have been successful.

More at link:
www.pbs.org

Why Georgia's RICO law could be key in the state's case against Trump

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is widely expected to use Georgia’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, or RICO, law to charge Trump and his associates for allegedly participating in a wide-ranging conspiracy to overturn the state’s 2020 election results.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org

Georgia’s RICO Act, adopted in 1980, makes it a crime to participate in, acquire or maintain control of an “enterprise” through a “pattern of racketeering activity” or to conspire to do so. It’s important to note that the alleged scheme does not have to have been successful for a RICO charge to stick.

An “enterprise” can be a single person or a group of associated individuals with a common goal. “Racketeering activity” means to commit, attempt to commit — or to solicit, coerce or intimidate someone else to commit — one of more than three dozen state crimes listed in the law. At least two such acts are required to meet the standard of a “pattern of racketeering activity,” meaning prosecutors have to prove that a person has engaged in two or more related criminal acts as part of their participation in an enterprise to be convicted under RICO.

The U.S. Supreme Court has said that federal RICO allegations must show continuity, that is to say a series of related underlying acts over an extended period of time, not just a few weeks or months. But the Georgia Supreme Court has made clear there is no such requirement in the state law.
 
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Lilibet said:
<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

More at link:
www.pbs.org

Why Georgia's RICO law could be key in the state's case against Trump

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is widely expected to use Georgia’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, or RICO, law to charge Trump and his associates for allegedly participating in a wide-ranging conspiracy to overturn the state’s 2020 election results.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org

Georgia’s RICO Act, adopted in 1980, makes it a crime to participate in, acquire or maintain control of an “enterprise” through a “pattern of racketeering activity” or to conspire to do so. It’s important to note that the alleged scheme does not have to have been successful for a RICO charge to stick.

An “enterprise” can be a single person or a group of associated individuals with a common goal. “Racketeering activity” means to commit, attempt to commit — or to solicit, coerce or intimidate someone else to commit — one of more than three dozen state crimes listed in the law. At least two such acts are required to meet the standard of a “pattern of racketeering activity,” meaning prosecutors have to prove that a person has engaged in two or more related criminal acts as part of their participation in an enterprise to be convicted under RICO.

The U.S. Supreme Court has said that federal RICO allegations must show continuity, that is to say a series of related underlying acts over an extended period of time, not just a few weeks or months. But the Georgia Supreme Court has made clear there is no such requirement in the state law.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this info. Looking up Georgia RICO details is on my list, but I'm not that far yet. :)

Fani Willis has charged complicated cases of RICO in Georgia and I'm confident she knows the law of her state.

Just because the Trump group filed bogus lawsuits after the election doesn't mean that Fani Willis behaves the same way when she makes charges. One is not like the other.

jmo
 
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Inthedetails said:
Thank you for this info. Looking up Georgia RICO details is on my list, but I'm not that far yet. :)

Fani Willis has charged complicated cases of RICO in Georgia and I'm confident she knows the law of her state.

Just because the Trump group filed bogus lawsuits after the election doesn't mean that Fani Willis behaves the same way when she makes charges. One is not like the other.

jmo
Click to expand...

I don’t think I’ve thanked you yet for your amazing work on the indictment and extra info @Inthedetails. You are living up to your name! Anyone who slogged through the original appreciates your hard work, I’m sure. :)
 
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Lilibet said:
I don’t think I’ve thanked you yet for your amazing work on the indictment and extra info @Inthedetails. You are living up to your name! Anyone who slogged through the original appreciates your hard work, I’m sure. :)
Click to expand...
I have hated the feeling of the last few years with this destructive drama and it steadies me to know details. Seems weird, but it's comforting.

I'm fully aware not everyone is interested and am grateful I get to at least post at all - it does help me remember the info. And when someone says there was no crime, I readily know there were, in fact, crimes committed.

jmo
 

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> I’m sensing that Fani Willis is viewed as the wrongdoer for some reason that defies logic IMO. I would hope that we could just look at the results of the grand jury’s investigation, remembering that they are citizens like us. They were free to reach a different conclusion and Fani Willis would have to accept it.

Special Prosecutor Jack Smith is facing the same rage and insults from Trump and his supporters that Fani Willis is, even though he is not an elected official. But I see respect for him on WS. Go figure.
 
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