GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #2

[ANZAC]

A couple of updates from yesterday.

Regarding the search, I spoke with police and they said they did a door to door search to the businesses and homes around the area where her car was found. They said we are welcome to search the area some more, but that they do not think this location was the initial destination.

I had been given a tip about a missing vulnerable adult altert, which is basically an amber alert for adults with cognitive disorders. This is something I had hoped the LE would have looked into early on. They are looking into her diagnosis to see if this qualifies

Lastly, we may have figured out why she was driving my moms car that night from a tip from a friend of hers. Her auto insurance payment had not been made on her car yet for Aug 1st. One of those things I wish I had looked into early on.

re the endangered missing person alert, probably wouldn't qualify as the vehicle has been located so there's no license plate to include with the alert. Criteria vary a bit from state to state, I don't know GA law, but that's my initial reaction. Also, some states require that no more than a certain number of hours have elapsed. Criteria is more consistent across states with Amber Alert, but for endangered these are two of the typical disqualifiers.

Someone asked me to take a look at this thread, I'm still reading backwards, so bear with me if I've missed things.

 

[flute4peace]

Have you learned anything more about the tattoo? Is it presumed that she got this herself?

It may be a long shot, but I'm just thinking about the possible trafficking angle and branding. The Star of David is a symbol used by a gang active in ATL. There was a pretty well-known trafficking case here where the suspect kept a number of women in a house in Sandy Springs. He was a member of that gang.

My heart just stopped for a bit.

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[Shiressleuth]

Just thought of something. Wonder where she put the money and Cashiers Checks she got from the bank? She must not have had access to them if she was getting money from the gas stations or ATM's that night.

To cash those Cashiers Checks she would need two forms of ID. We know she left her ID at home. Did she already have her fake ID made, ready for her to take off?

Perhaps that is why she did not pay her car insurance because she knew she would be gone and not be driving her car?

What Cashiers Checks are you on about? You mentioned this before. Have we missed something about this?

 

[FlossyMay]

What Cashiers Checks are you on about? You mentioned this before. Have we missed something about this?

I'm pretty certain this poster is still confusing Jenna's case with Taylor Wright's case.

 

[subie_climber]

My heart just stopped for a bit.

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She got this on her own, however according to parents, it was in part from her trip to Israel to visit family a few years back.
Dont think we have to worry about the above, hopefully not

 

[K9Snoop]

I'm reading from the beginning of the thread so bear with me. Detectives can be pretty closed-mouth at times when they are developing or researching leads simply because people are looking for answers and sometime interfere with an investigation. Just on the first page of this thread is a great synopsis. Right now I'm scratching my head wondering the tapestry thing. An odd thing to take, but it strikes to me as a personal thing to take. It's something that if a family member liked and, if they were leaving and never coming back, would take as a rememberence of home. The other thing is the chasing down of all the electronic leads. More than one phone involved, computer accounts, did she use free wi-fi at businesses. I'm reading through to see if a forensic computer analysis has been completed.

 

[kdhith]

I'm asking a few people involved in gangs, they told me it wouldn't be practice to tattoo a female or brand them as belonging to them. Now this is in the Philly area. They prefer colors not tattoos. Meaning gang colors and tattoos that are variations of the gang symbol so LE does not know affiliation.

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I do think my branding tattoo "theory" is quite a long shot, but it is true that here in Atlanta, it is common for trafficked women to be forced into branding tattoos. There is an organization here that helps these women have these brands removed or covered up. Pretty incredible, to learn even the slightest bit about trafficking and how common it is. Really horrible.

 

[Cheshirekatz]

I have some Jewish friends with tattoos. I don't think it's as frowned upon as it used to be.
Subie, did you know about this tattoo before?


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[subie_climber]

I have some Jewish friends with tattoos. I don't think it's as frowned upon as it used to be.
Subie, did you know about this tattoo before?


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I did not

 

[Cheshirekatz]

I really am frustrated with Jenna's so called friends. Surely they know more than they are letting on. I think this is the key to the case.


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[ANZAC]

Two questions for family (or people already caught up on the thread):

Has LE sent warrants to both cell providers?
Did LE process vehicle before returning it to the family, and what did they say about results, if so?

I have to go run errands but will be back later and try and read back some more.

 

[ANZAC]

I really am frustrated with Jenna's so called friends. Surely they know more than they are letting on. I think this is the key to the case.

We see this VERY frequently even in cases of self-harm or accidental disappearances --- people feel guilty, worry they'll be charged with something. You would think that people would be fully cooperative on day 1 when a friend or family member is missing but in many cases they are not. I remember one case I was sure was going to be a homicide watching a family friend clam up and glare away from us, but it turned out to be a suicide and she just felt guilty and angry.

In other words, don't read too much into it, and let's they cooperate if they know anything of value.

 

[ANZAC]

As to the topic of family/friends organizing searches - absolutely you/they should do that. If the police have run out of scenes to process, you don't need their permission (nice to let them know though so they can partner). An obvious caveat: if anyone finds anything that might be of evidentiary value, don't touch it!

 

[Cheshirekatz]

Happy to help search, subie


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[ANZAC]

There is also a designated "Audubon Wildlife Sanctuary" near where her car was found. It's rather small but also overgrown and I've never seen anyone enter it. It's at the Underwood Hills park literally a quarter mile away.

On both nearby parks, they're great candidates to search --- at this point the best way to search them is with cadaver/human remains dogs. If she has passed away, and did so on or about the day she disappeared, the best window for dogs to find her is 1-4 weeks after passing. I would absolutely get them into any of these candidate areas ASAP, because from this point the scent will diminish. (that's not to say remains could never be found, but it gets a lot harder after 4 weeks, and you'd need to couple it with an extensive ground search.

I know this is a sad topic -- but getting answers can ease the pain of not knowing (if something has happened to her).

If LE is either unwilling or doesn't have the resources to do this (you need experienced HR dogs, not bite/drug/gun or trailing/airscent dogs) then I would look into outside groups. Given that there's no scene to protect right now, you can pretty much search anywhere that is open to the public.

 

[ANZAC]

On the human trafficking topic: this stuff is very real unfortunately and I would say given her age and autism spectrum (if I'm getting this right from prior posts) I'd say she could definitely be a target for manipulation/trafficking. This stuff is more rampant than people think (I was talking to a human trafficking detective after an FBI task force meeting and I was shocked about how many cases he was working on). The other sad thing is that these people are well organized and from what I understand tend to be experienced at it, and therefore leave fewer clues (than a crime of opportunity/passion).

Still reading back...

 

[ANZAC]

In your experience, why would the FBI be involved as reported earlier in the thread?

We've had FBI show up at some of our searches just to keep an eye on the case. Missing child, missing person, abduction, human trafficking all get their interest, and some homicides. They have resources they can provide too, to assist local LE. (haven't reached that post yet..... so just a comment that it doesn't mean it is an FBI case a federal case or anything, sometimes they just take an interest and ask the detectives to keep them posted).

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

I really am frustrated with Jenna's so called friends. Surely they know more than they are letting on. I think this is the key to the case.


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They have been pretty quiet.
Lots of shares on the Help Find Jenna Facebook page, but few comments.
moo

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[ANZAC]

I think I've read back far enough to get the gist of things.

On what LE says to family during an investigation: They may certainly say things like "we're looking into one of her friends or people she associated with" (but not say who, or why). They'll say more if the family aren't suspects but a lot of times they really don't have a lot to go on, and this can seem like they're not being forthcoming. They do "hold back" information, which can be used to either confirm or disprove alibis, statements etc of suspects.

Contrary to the way these cases are portrayed on TV, there usually are not flashes of insight but a lot of hard work trying to run down each lead or avenue of investigation.

And remember questions they ask (did she have a box of cash etc) can be to try to rule things out. In fact most of the process is ruling things out.

I don't have too much more to add. The "laying down" text could be unusual but it depends on the context.

Certainly possible the car was moved after any crime was committed (or she was found by someone if she harmed herself). This stuff happens all the time with credit cards, phones and cars. It doesn't mean someone hurt the victim, but it adds another layer of things to investigate.

Any thoughts on the anniversary of her grandmother's death? Judging by her Facebook post that would have been August 1, 2017 (as Aug 1 2016 was 2nd anniversary). Was she close to the grandmother? Any change in behavior/mood since Aug 1? (I know it isn't the day she went missing but sometimes these anniversaries can be crisis triggers that take a little while to unfold - not a mental health professional but just an observation)

Family feel free to PM me, if you want to talk through what LE has been telling you or asking you.

 

[subie_climber]

We just finished meeting with the LE. Again there is information they cannot share yet. What we know though
The subpoenas for both phones should be arriving any day now which will include last ping locations
The police did do a door to door search and dog search of the area around the car and have been reviewing video footage from the local businesses
We also know now her ID / credit cards were in the car