GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #4

[tlcya]

I was flabbergasted after reading the comment made by the CME

How can the CME NOT know how many times the child was stabbed?

All they have to do is count the number of wounds. :waitasec:

<snipped>

CAUSE OF DEATH

Keenan said the autopsy, which was conducted by Chief Medical Examiner
Dr. Kris Sperry, disclosed that the child also was stabbed an unknown number of times and sexually assaulted.

If the stabbings were all in the same area, one atop the other, and then the body compacted, I could see were it might be difficult to determine exactly how many distinct stab wounds were inflicted, after all they would not be distinct stab wounds but rather a flurry of frenzied stabbing. This ME did not get this body in a normal state. He got a compacted one post death, IMO this could complicate matters later.

 

[gngr~snap]

12-06-11 7:00pm Jane Velez Mitchell
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1112/05/ijvm.01.html

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I see that you have a little dog there, and I understand that that animal is part of this very sad, sad story. Tell us about that, that animal`s connection to this beautiful little girl.
J-C: She loved all types of animals. Anybody that had a dog or a cat, she would run over and want to play with it. And ---and she saw him every day. She would come up to my porch when we were just out on the porch and play with him through the rails. And she -- she was just a very sweet outgoing child and would talk to anyone. And she -- she loved him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
J-C: She always held him and played with him.

&#8226;I wonder if that is where Jorelys was headed? Sounds like she may have been snatched right there! Is this in bldg 9000?

12-06-11 8:00pm Nancy
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1112/05/ng.01.html
McC: They come to our door around -- probably around 10:00 o`clock, and come to our neighbors and walked in and just asked to look around. And we had no problem with that. And you know, we just -- we just, you know, tried to help out the best way we can.
GRACE: So you didn`t have a problem when the cops came to your door and said, Let us in, we`re looking. You let them on in.
McC: No, no problem at all. I welcomed it.:waitasec:
GRACE: In fact, James McCollum, did they tell you what they were looking for? What did they say?
McC: Actually, Friday about 7:00 o`clock, some lady come to my door and asked me if I seen a little girl. And I told her no, I didn`t -- I`ve never seen her. And then about 9:00 o`clock that night, I believe it was a fireman who came to my door, and I told him about the same thing. I just--- I don`t know the little girl. I`ve never seen her. But I just know that -- my girlfriend, you know, knows her real well out here and seen her playing.
GRACE: You know, another thing I want to ask you about, is when you said a woman came to your door looking for a little girl, who was she?
McC: I actually don`t know. She was just, you know, I guess, asking if we seen any kids or not. And you know, I haven`t seen -- I was in the house, or the apartment. So I mean, I don`t know who she was

&#8226;:waitasec: He never saw Jorelys! K got it! hear no evil see no evil speak no evil SOMEONE must have seen her around those apartments earlier in the day... why check at McCollum's apartment PRIOR to calling LE??


KR, whose boyfriend James McCollum lives upstairs from the vacant apartment where police believe Jorelys was killed, said she met Brunn on Saturday afternoon.

&#8226;So they do live in bldg 10000 above the empty unit.

Neighbor H J-C said residents were suspicious of Brunn after investigators found Jorelys' body in the trash compactor, which can only be operated with a key that employees at the complex have.
"He said, and I quote, 'It would be really easy for someone to break in and do something to one of these children,'" J-C said Wednesday.
&#8226;Nothing like stating the obvious!
Thank GOD they were not "showing" the apartments that weekend! Can you imagine??? :twocents:

Totally circumstantial at this point. ...
Hope we hear something soon but IMO they have NO proof... yet...

 

[Crosby87]

BBM

http://www.ledgernews.com/news/1108...urder-charge-case-not-presented-to-grand-jury

"
WHAT POLICE BELIEVE HAPPENED
Investigators said they believed that prior to her disappearance, Jorelys went into the apartment to grab some drinks for her friends. Baker said statements provided by witnesses indicate that the child returned to the park after getting the drinks.
When asked if the soda cans were found and were being tested, Baker responded, “Property was collected; (we are) not going to divulge.”
Keenan said investigators believe the child was abducted in the area of the playground, taken to an unlocked vacant apartment, assaulted and murdered. Her body then was put in the Dumpster.
An arrest warrant for Brunn indicates that the suspected murder occurred in building 10000.
“We have collected evidence inside the (vacant) apartment that we believe is blood,” Keenan said. “That evidence has been submitted to the GBI crime laboratory, and we are awaiting the results of that examination.”

So she DID return to the park? I thought she never came back!

If Jorelys returned to the playground with a drink for each of her friends, they should have seen who Jorelys' left the playground with.

 

[Hickory Born]

A little history on Ryan and his Canton connection. He had been going back and forth apparently. Sorry if it's a repeat. It was something I hadn't noticed before. He had been there on and off for a year.

snipped

Brunn was a resident of Lumpkin County until about a year ago when he moved to Canton,said Bankhead.

During that year he reportedly continued to stay in Dahlonega frequently until taking a permanent job at River Ridge Apartments last month.

GBI agents began working with the Lumpkin County Sheriff's Office soon after Rivera's abduction as they interviewed local family members of Brunn and surveilled different areas throughout the county.

Bankhead said the investigation will be ongoing.

"We do have agents working with the Lumpkin County Sheriff's Office and others to follow up on his background and anything that could be useful," he said.

http://thedahloneganugget.com/view/...-of-Canton-girl?instance=breakingNews_article

Are there any unsolved missing children in either of these areas?

 

[gngr~snap]

WOW! Alrighty then, so our concerns as to why that crime scene was not found by Canton PD were justified IMO. :shakehead: This is distressing.

They seemed comfortable calling it an abduction:maddening:
That was a close call MOO

 

[vlpate]

Blood spatter can be very tiny spray, visible with the naked eye only upon close inspection. At the time they thought they were looking for a missing (wandered off again) child. It is possible that they noticed the small amount of blood mentioned in the statement from the Sheriff, but failing to further investigate or sound the alarm, smaller spray may have gone unnoticed and unremarked. So I am still hopeful that there was plenty of blood evidence to tell a story in the apartment.

I also wonder if they did a cursory sweep of the apartment before clearing it, if the mattress may have had blood and body fluid evidence on it but was flipped over so that the other side of the mattress was visible during the cursory sweep. If so, there could still have been plenty of forensic evidence, blood, semen, hair, skin cells, on the opposite side for GBI to collect.

I wonder how big a role the mother's two previous calls for a missing Jorelys which turned out to be false alarms played in how seriously this call was at first taken. Very sad. Canton PD is going to take a big black eye for this IMO. I hate to see that happen. I am a huge LE supporter and I understand LEOs are human and fallible, as are we all, but it sure sounds as if mistakes were made. Big time.

Hi TL - the mattress with SPOTS of blood on it would not alarm me if I were walking the apartment as a community staff member when a child was not missing. Almost every mattress that's left behind in an apartment has blood on it. If a maintenance person was with the officer searching and they did see blood on the mattress (not covering it, but small spots all over), I'll bet that maint. person probably said the same thing -that there's always blood on the mattresses left behind.

 

[mck16]

A little history on Ryan and his Canton connection. He had been going back and forth apparently. Sorry if it's a repeat. It was something I hadn't noticed before. He had been there on and off for a year.

snipped

Brunn was a resident of Lumpkin County until about a year ago when he moved to Canton,said Bankhead.During that year he reportedly continued to stay in Dahlonega frequently until taking a permanent job at River Ridge Apartments last month.

GBI agents began working with the Lumpkin County Sheriff's Office soon after Rivera's abduction as they interviewed local family members of Brunn and surveilled different areas throughout the county.

Bankhead said the investigation will be ongoing.

"We do have agents working with the Lumpkin County Sheriff's Office and others to follow up on his background and anything that could be useful," he said.

http://thedahloneganugget.com/view/...-of-Canton-girl?instance=breakingNews_article

So, are they saying he lived in Canton for a year, and if so where did he live? tia

 

[Crosby87]

The wrist comment was strange...maybe he had been handcuffed and detained at some point? Not sure if that follows typical procedure (cuffs before actual arrest), but I don't really get it...if it defensive wounds or lack of defensive wounds it would make more sense to pull up sleeves or something, I don't see why wrists would be a hot zone for defensive wounds. Strange.

Ryan was interviewed for 14 hours without a lawyer present afaik and would not have been handcuffed prior to his arrest.

 

[Hickory Born]

Hi TL - the mattress with SPOTS of blood on it would not alarm me if I were walking the apartment as a community staff member when a child was not missing. Almost every mattress that's left behind in an apartment has blood on it. If a maintenance person was with the officer searching and they did see blood on the mattress (not covering it, but small spots all over), I'll bet that maint. person probably said the same thing -that there's always blood on the mattresses left behind.

How long does it take for blood to turn brown? If LE saw blood on Friday evening (on mattress or where ever) wouldn't it be fresh red blood?

 

[vlpate]

http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/cherokee-sheriff-major-mistake-1260332.html

So he had all night to take her body out of the apartment and dispose of it. No one was watching the trash compactor, so it would have been easy. You don't see a lot living in an apartment with blinds on the first floors usually always closed. Only a few apartments face the compactor, which narrows a potential eyewitness list even further. I thought they checked the vacant units the same night she went missing.

Will they ever learn? If a police officer went missing at that community, the vacant units would have been turned upside down THAT night.

 

[vlpate]

How long does it take for blood to turn brown? If LE saw blood on Friday evening (on mattress or where ever) wouldn't it be fresh red blood?

According to the article posted here, they didn't search vacant units till the next day. There were about 33 vacant units, so, depending on how many were searching, not sure if it would be dark by then. Good point though. Fresh blood would alarm me!

 

[tlcya]

How long does it take for blood to turn brown? If LE saw blood on Friday evening (on mattress or where ever) wouldn't it be fresh red blood?

I think it would depend on the quantity.

Things that confuse the issue and make this situation hard for me to figure exactly what evidence exists are the following:

Reports in MSM that describe a bloody crime scene as opposed to a trainee and an officer's description (a week after when forced to by Sheriff) of a small amount of blood.

The mattress that GBI removed as evidence. If the Canton officers did a full sweep of the apt before "clearing", what evidence is on the mattress and SHOULD it have been evident to a naked eye sweep by Canton? Or is it more of the forensic variety that would not be noteworthy to those officers?

The insistence by GBI that they are confident they have their man and there are not accomplices still being sought and the MSM interviews with witnesses now (post arrest) describing RB's odd behaviors/statements.

This is all getting very muddy and it makes it tough to attempt to imagine exactly how much of the evidence against RB is circumstantial and how much is forensic/physical.

All that said, I still have a great deal of confidence in the GBI, although my confidence in Canton PD is shaken at this point. I will wait and see what GBI has and til then, I will continue to take Keenan's word for it that they have the right man.

 

[Crosby87]

I don't think it is that strange that police chief would not be at a search sight. I think they often stay at the station and delegate/

If this is the case, why didn't he say so instead of refusing to comment on the issue?

 

[gngr~snap]

Blood spatter can be very tiny spray, visible with the naked eye only upon close inspection. At the time they thought they were looking for a missing (wandered off again) child. It is possible that they noticed the small amount of blood mentioned in the statement from the Sheriff, but failing to further investigate or sound the alarm, smaller spray may have gone unnoticed and unremarked. So I am still hopeful that there was plenty of blood evidence to tell a story in the apartment.

I also wonder if they did a cursory sweep of the apartment before clearing it, if the mattress may have had blood and body fluid evidence on it but was flipped over so that the other side of the mattress was visible during the cursory sweep.

If so, there could still have been plenty of forensic evidence, blood, semen, hair, skin cells, on the opposite side for GBI to collect.

I wonder how big a role the mother's two previous calls for a missing Jorelys which turned out to be false alarms played in how seriously this call was at first taken. Very sad. Canton PD is going to take a big black eye for this IMO. I hate to see that happen. I am a huge LE supporter and I understand LEOs are human and fallible, as are we all, but it sure sounds as if mistakes were made. Big time.

I think I heard that the apartment where the crime occured didn't have a lock box on it. IF it was a "model" unit (furnished) I can see where a cursory check might falsely appear to not be the scene of a crime. They would expect mattresses to be in there and a comforter/low lighting might have concealed the scene.
HOWEVER if it was an EMPTY apartment with a random mattress on the floor in a room... that SHOULD have been investigated more thoroughly.
AND the possible blood SHOULD have been reported.

At least they owned up to seeing it previously, I guess...

 

[vlpate]

I think it would depend on the quantity.

Things that confuse the issue and make this situation hard for me to figure exactly what evidence exists are the following:

Reports in MSM that describe a bloody crime scene as opposed to a trainee and an officer's description (a week after when forced to by Sheriff) of a small amount of blood.

The mattress that GBI removed as evidence. If the Canton officers did a full sweep of the apt before "clearing", what evidence is on the mattress and SHOULD it have been evident to a naked eye sweep by Canton? Or is it more of the forensic variety that would not be noteworthy to those officers?

The insistence by GBI that they are confident they have their man and there are not accomplices still being sought and the MSM interviews with witnesses now (post arrest) describing RB's odd behaviors/statements.

This is all getting very muddy and it makes it tough to attempt to imagine exactly how much of the evidence against RB is circumstantial and how much is forensic/physical.

All that said, I still have a great deal of confidence in the GBI, although my confidence in Canton PD is shaken at this point. I will wait and see what GBI has and til then, I will continue to take Keenan's word for it that they have the right man.

I tend to think the soda cans are going to figure significantly - and probably her little purse w/diary. His fingerprints on the soda can she drank from, his bloody fingerprints on her purse and clothes.

He didn't seem like the brightest tack, so he may have thought that by simply throwing the body in the compactor, he would be home free. In his mind, he may have been picturing the "bales" of compacted trash, which is not what these apartment type contraptions do.

I think for that reason, he wasn't careful at all about throwing everything away - and his prints and dna is likely all over everything he threw away.

 

[tlcya]

I tend to think the soda cans are going to figure significantly - and probably her little purse w/diary. His fingerprints on the soda can she drank from, his bloody fingerprints on her purse and clothes.

He didn't seem like the brightest tack, so he may have thought that by simply throwing the body in the compactor, he would be home free. In his mind, he may have been picturing the "bales" of compacted trash, which is not what these apartment type contraptions do.

I think for that reason, he wasn't careful at all about throwing everything away - and his prints and dna is likely all over everything he threw away.

all excellent points. I can't get past the suspicion that he had some sort of trophy in his apartment as well. But I guess only time will tell.

Given the newest info on the drink run which is different from previous things stated in media links, I too think these soda cans may figure significantly.

 

[brighidin]

If Jorelys returned to the playground with a drink for each of her friends, they should have seen who Jorelys' left the playground with.

She left alone and didn't return.

"She reportedly told other children at the playground that she was going inside to get drinks, but never returned."
http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/police-find-body-of-1249642.html

 

[gngr~snap]

http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/cherokee-sheriff-mistake-made-1260332.html

a VACANT apartment with trash and the amount of blood you would see with a bloody
nose? Hmm I was thinking it wasn't even obvious that was blood sounds like they both knew it was.
They were looking for a missing child not a crime scene. I now believe that they might have been thinking JR would turn up again... moo

 

[vlpate]

We have courtesy officers that check the vacant units when he walks the property - he makes sure all the lights are off and the doors are secure, and then submits an all clear report every morning. I wonder if this community has any type of courtesy or security patrol.

 

[tlcya]

http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/cherokee-sheriff-mistake-made-1260332.html

a VACANT apartment with trash and the amount of blood you would see with a bloody
nose? Hmm I was thinking it wasn't even obvious that was blood sounds like they both knew it was.
They were looking for a missing child not a crime scene. I now believe that they might have been thinking JR would turn up again... moo

And she certainly did