GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #4

[krimekat]

http://www.riverridgeatcanton.com/index-7.html

In case it has not been posted . . .

The entire management family extends its utmost sympathy and prayers to the family and friends of Jorelys Rivera and all the residents of River Ridge apartments in Canton, Georgia.

Our local property support staff at River Ridge is providing all possible assistance to investigators.

 

[krimekat]

I think she meant he took her off somewhere and then returned her to where she was eventually found.

To answer the noise question - you really only hear noise from the apartments above, not below. Had he taken her to an upstairs apartment, someone could easily have heard every movement.

BBM and not that it even matters in this case as the crime scene apt is on the ground floor (right?)

I have lived in communities such as River Ridge "sandwiched" between 2 condos . . . my downstairs neighbors were loud talkers & I could often decipher what they were saying through my kitchen & bathroom floors (not carpeted).

I'm so thankful I don't have to live in an apt complex like those ! Did for many years . . .

 

[Crosby87]

Blood dries quickly. If you Google "blood spatter" there are a few basic "tutorials" that explain blood spatter analysis. LE usually have to call in a blood spatter analyst for such analysis. This is not something that is done by a scene of the crime officer.

Thanks KMouse. I'll check it out. It sounds interesting.

None of the articles I read mentioned LE called in a blood splatter expert to collect the blood found in the vacant apartment. DNA found on Jorely's body is also undergoing analysis and that I suppose was collected during the autopsy.

 

[Crosby87]

I wondered if LE were done sifting through the garbage bags that were thrown in the dumpster that was removed from the apartment complex, and when I saw the crane lifting the closed trash bags out for the officers to sort through, I think if Jorelys body had been placed in a trash bag she wouldn't have been found so quickly. Natisha Lance said LE wouldn't tell her if Jorelys' body had been placed in a trash bag but I doubt she was after watching the video.

There are several garbage bins at the complex where the perp could have disposed of his and Jorely's clothing and the knife, but judging by the number of bags I saw, it is going to take LE an awfully long time to open and examine all the contents in each of the bags and there is no way of knowing if items of interest were dumped in a bin at the complex. And after an officer opens and examines the contents in each of the bags, it all has to be rebagged too.

This is a huge undertaking so I’m glad the workers found her body shortly after they removed the bin and unloaded it. It might be difficult to smell and locate a decomposing body amongst all that trash.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/215763/8/CANTON--Arrest-made-in-Jorelys-Rivera-murder-case

 

[Magdalyn]

Thanks KMouse. I'll check it out. It sounds interesting.

None of the articles I read mentioned LE called in a blood splatter expert to collect the blood found in the vacant apartment. DNA found on Jorely's body is also undergoing analysis and that I suppose was collected during the autopsy.

AFAIK, the GBI was already there when Jorelys was found. They were there from the get-go collecting evidence/analyzing at both the dumpster and the apartment. AFAIK, the GBI would have their own blood spatter analyst. No need to 'call anyone in'. If they did have to call someone in, I'd lay odds it was a GBI employee, so I doubt a journalist would take note of their arrival.

http://dofs.gbi.georgia.gov/00/chan...m/tu-online/stories/121703/geo_14322439.shtml

 

[Crosby87]

BBM and not that it even matters in this case as the crime scene apt is on the ground floor (right?)

I have lived in communities such as River Ridge "sandwiched" between 2 condos . . . my downstairs neighbors were loud talkers & I could often decipher what they were saying through my kitchen & bathroom floors (not carpeted).

I'm so thankful I don't have to live in an apt complex like those ! Did for many years . . .

That's what I thought too but one of the witnesses whose apartment is on the ground floor said something about being able to look down at this apt which didn't make sense since it's on the ground floor.

I live in an apt and have neighbors above and below me and I can hear what is going on in their suites if I don't have my television, fan or stereo on. The floors above me squeak everywhere and I can't wait to move. Even though I appreciate the view I have out my windows which face east and west, I have no privacy and the tenants above me don't lift their furniture, they drag it across the floor, run a washing machine almost everyday, and are forever dropping things onto the wooden floors.

The block I currently reside in is old and the newer apartments are more sound proof so since the RR apt are new this may not be an issue. If someone keeps a radio or tv on when they're home, it blocks out noise coming in from the apts around you.

 

[JeannaT]

AFAIK, the GBI was already there when Jorelys was found. They were there from the get-go collecting evidence/analyzing at both the dumpster and the apartment. AFAIK, the GBI would have their own blood spatter analyst. No need to 'call anyone in'. If they did have to call someone in, I'd lay odds it was a GBI employee, so I doubt a journalist would take note of their arrival.

http://dofs.gbi.georgia.gov/00/chan...attern wouldn't be of much evidentiary value.

 

[Crosby87]

AFAIK, the GBI was already there when Jorelys was found. They were there from the get-go collecting evidence/analyzing at both the dumpster and the apartment. AFAIK, the GBI would have their own blood spatter analyst. No need to 'call anyone in'. If they did have to call someone in, I'd lay odds it was a GBI employee, so I doubt a journalist would take note of their arrival.

http://dofs.gbi.georgia.gov/00/chan...culated-murder/story?id=15095190#.Tuph3jU7Xzg

 

[Capri]

Just throwing some ideas out there. :seeya: As Ryan works as a groundskeeper and had access to vacant apartments presumably because he occasionally had to do work in them, he may have had access to tarps/throwcloths and used one or more in the apartment. Perhaps the 'nosebleed' drips came unbeknownst to RB from the bag he was carrying her out of the apartment in. :twocents:

Also, I can't picture RB calling out to her or grabbing her from the playground. Not saying it didn't happen, but I don't think, since there were other adults at the playground (iirc) that he'd chance that. He may have caught her eye from around the corner and done a 'come here' gesture, or perhaps she passed him on her way back to the playground and he asked her to come back by after she dropped off the Cokes so he could show her something.

Also, many neighbors said Jorelys wandered unattended often. For all we know, Jorelys was doing a regular 'I'm going to go pet dogs' circuit around the immediate area, and she does this often, and RB knows it.

I don't think 'abducted from the playground' necessarily means they believe she was bodily removed from the playground by the abductor. If a person were 'abducted from the mall', that could mean removed from the mall bodily, coaxed in some way, tricked, or just the last known location the person was at before they went missing and presumed abducted, IMO.

Again, just some thoughts and MOO.

ETA: Did someone say the apartment was full of trash? Is it possible RB placed the trash in there to cover over the condition in which he left the apartment?

This article mentions the trash in the vacant apt.

http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/cherokee-sheriff-mistake-made-1260332.html

It was only when the GBI arrived and began debriefing everyone on the evening of Dec. 4 that the two officers reported being in a vacant apartment filled with trash and seeing a small amount of blood "like you would see with a nosebleed," Garrison said. That apartment, police think, was the crime scene.

 

[Magdalyn]

During one of the press conference's Keenan gave before Brunn was arrested, he said "We have found evidence in [the vacant apartment] we believe is blood. We are awaiting results of the investigation. The lab worked all night long."

So LE have never said tmk how or who collected the sample they believe is blood.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/jorelys-ri...culated-murder/story?id=15095190#.Tuph3jU7Xzg

BBM

Right. But Kennan is the Director of the GBI and he's saying 'we' found evidence. "The lab", I'm sure, is the GBI crime lab. It's a high profile murder case and they knew that the moment they found her body. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that GBI agents collected the evidence, seeing how City of Canton LE had already bungled the beginning of the search.

 

[bunky]

I just can't imagine how he could have gotten blood on the ceiling....even if he stabbed her while she was standing up - that seems unbelievable. MSM - methinks they exaggerate a titch.

Did you follow the Peterson 2 case? Lots of blood splatter was found.

 

[Magdalyn]

It's hard for me to believe they'd need someone to analyze blood spatter patterns - that's usually useful in determining whether the person was shot at close or far range, whether there is evidence that it was a matter of self-defense, etc.

I would think in the case of a grown man murdering a child he doesn't know, samples of blood taken from the scene is sufficient, and the actual pattern wouldn't be of much evidentiary value.

Agreed. I was simply stating that if they did need a blood spatter specialist, the GBI has them on staff. Likely no need to fly some dude/dudette in from across the country or anything, and I doubt they'd be noticed as a specialist to the journalists in their standard GBI uniform, therefore, no big mention by MSM. :seeya:

 

[Crosby87]

This article mentions the trash in the vacant apt.

http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/cherokee-sheriff-mistake-made-1260332.html

It was only when the GBI arrived and began debriefing everyone on the evening of Dec. 4 that the two officers reported being in a vacant apartment filled with trash and seeing a small amount of blood "like you would see with a nosebleed," Garrison said. That apartment, police think, was the crime scene.

Is it fair for Garrison to criticize and discipline the two officers for failing to speak up sooner about what they found in the vacant apartment if their superior officer did not call a meeting in order to debrief the officers who were working the case?

Sheriff Roger Garrison wasn't working on Saturday.

Typically a debriefing is an official questioning session after an event; an interview in which somebody is asked about or reports on a task, mission or event after is has ended so if no one was in charge of calling a debriefing for the CPD officers before the GBI arrived, are the officers "guilty"?

 

[Capri]

Is it fair for Garrison to criticize and discipline the two officers for failing to speak up sooner about what they found in the vacant apartment if their superior officer did not call a meeting in order to debrief the officers who were working the case?

Sheriff Roger Garrison wasn't working on Saturday.

Typically a debriefing is an official questioning session after an event; an interview in which somebody is asked about or reports on a task, mission or event after is has ended so if no one was in charge of calling a debriefing for the CPD officers before the GBI arrived, are the officers "guilty"?

The officers admitted their omission of not reporting the blood, so I don
t think that's in question, if that's what you're meaning. I don't think LE would be minimizing it ("nosebleed amount", "trash=filled apt") if they didn't think it was a mistake. Is it a fireable offense? Not likely according to LE. I'm not defending, I wish they had reported it right away too, but if there was blood, likely the murder was completed already , so no real effect on the outcome of the case, thankfully. And no, that's not an absolute, just a JMHO. :>

 

[Crosby87]

Just throwing some ideas out there. :seeya: As Ryan works as a groundskeeper and had access to vacant apartments presumably because he occasionally had to do work in them, he may have had access to tarps/throwcloths and used one or more in the apartment. Perhaps the 'nosebleed' drips came unbeknownst to RB from the bag he was carrying her out of the apartment in. :twocents:

Also, I can't picture RB calling out to her or grabbing her from the playground. Not saying it didn't happen, but I don't think, since there were other adults at the playground (iirc) that he'd chance that. He may have caught her eye from around the corner and done a 'come here' gesture, or perhaps she passed him on her way back to the playground and he asked her to come back by after she dropped off the Cokes so he could show her something.

Also, many neighbors said Jorelys wandered unattended often. For all we know, Jorelys was doing a regular 'I'm going to go pet dogs' circuit around the immediate area, and she does this often, and RB knows it.

I don't think 'abducted from the playground' necessarily means they believe she was bodily removed from the playground by the abductor. If a person were 'abducted from the mall', that could mean removed from the mall bodily, coaxed in some way, tricked, or just the last known location the person was at before they went missing and presumed abducted, IMO.

Again, just some thoughts and MOO.

ETA: Did someone say the apartment was full of trash? Is it possible RB placed the trash in there to cover over the condition in which he left the apartment?

If blood was dripping from the victim when she was carried out of the vacant apartment, the officers would have found a trail of blood outside the apartment imo.

Baker said statements provided by witnesses indicate that the child returned to the park after getting the drinks so why didn't anyone see what happened to her next?

When asked if the soda cans were found and were being tested, Baker responded, “Property was collected; (we are) not going to divulge.” but I doubt the perp touched any of the soda cans because he wouldn't want to leave his fingerprints on them.

LE didn’t say whether the witnesses who claim Jorelys returned to the park are adults or children but imo, if an adult had been supervising the children at the playground, Jorelys would have been safe. The articles I read said only children and Jorelys’ friends were there.

“There is no indication that the babysitter was ever at the playground,” Baker said.

http://www.ledgernews.com/news/1108...urder-charge-case-not-presented-to-grand-jury

 

[Crosby87]

BBM

Right. But Kennan is the Director of the GBI and he's saying 'we' found evidence. "The lab", I'm sure, is the GBI crime lab. It's a high profile murder case and they knew that the moment they found her body. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that GBI agents collected the evidence, seeing how City of Canton LE had already bungled the beginning of the search.

I see. Thank you. :seeya:

 

[officer'swife 2010]

Just joining in on this convo but have been following the case since it happened....does anybody know when Brunn's court date is? My heart breaks so bad for this poor innocent child......and her family RIP sweet girl

 

[New1]

http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/cherokee-sheriff-major-mistake-1260332.html

A "small" amount of blood is contradictory to another description that there was blood all over the walls and everywhere in that apartment. How could that be overlooked?

 

[katydid23]

A "small" amount of blood is contradictory to another description that there was blood all over the walls and everywhere in that apartment. How could that be overlooked?

Two possibilities come to mind. One,they might have just looked inside quickly, seen a small amount of blood,perhaps in the front room, but did not look any further. And the blood described in the article might have been in a bathroom or bedroom closet area.

OR maybe it took luminol to see the blood was at one time all over the walls and everywhere.

 

[JeannaT]

A "small" amount of blood is contradictory to another description that there was blood all over the walls and everywhere in that apartment. How could that be overlooked?

I think it's possible to have a contradiction in descriptions.

Seasoned professional FBI might call something an obvious gruesome crime scene because they're very used to looking for that. I could see a newbie rookie cop seeing a small blood stain on the wall and not looking with a flashlight at the ceiling and surrounding areas of the walls for flecks of blood throughout.

It certainly doesn't sound like the kind of thing the average person would notice at a glance - but an older FBI guy would say it was undeniably a violent crime scene.