GA - Katherine Janness, 40, fatally stabbed and dog killed, Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 28 Jul 2021 #3

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The podcast was informative. I continue to wonder about more than one weapon being used. I listened for a reference to "Glasgow Grin" but that doesn't appear to be present.

(And, the thought that more than one person was involved in the murder still pesters me - even though it's not likely.)
 
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WARNING: REFERENCES TO AUTOPSY CONTENT

For those who've read the autopsy, do you think she was initially attacked from the front, i.e. she was facing the person? Or was she attacked from behind first? I read it this afternoon, but couldn't make total sense of it, nor do I want to. It seems like there were a couple of deep wounds in her back that pierced her aortic vein/artery, and so I thought maybe she was attacked from behind first. Would her throat have been cut in the way it was from behind only? But she also has the defensive wounds on her hands. It also made me wonder if LE/ME have insight into whether the killer was right-handed or left-handed based on patterns in location/direction of the stab wounds. And can they tell if more than one weapon was used and what kind of weapon? I think they are working with a lot more information about the killer than we know.
 
WARNING: REFERENCES TO AUTOPSY CONTENT

For those who've read the autopsy, do you think she was initially attacked from the front, i.e. she was facing the person? Or was she attacked from behind first? I read it this afternoon, but couldn't make total sense of it, nor do I want to. It seems like there were a couple of deep wounds in her back that pierced her aortic vein/artery, and so I thought maybe she was attacked from behind first. Would her throat have been cut in the way it was from behind only? But she also has the defensive wounds on her hands. It also made me wonder if LE/ME have insight into whether the killer was right-handed or left-handed based on patterns in location/direction of the stab wounds. And can they tell if more than one weapon was used and what kind of weapon? I think they are working with a lot more information about the killer than we know.

You should listen to the 'body bags' podcast linked upthread. Much of this is covered.

There was hemorrhaging in the stab wounds to the back, throat, and 'FA-T' carving, indicating that her heart was still beating when these wounds occurred. What confuses me is that both the stab wound to the back that severed an artery and punctured her lung and the throat cutting should have been fatal wounds by themselves. They must have happened in quick succession for the hemorrhaging to occur.
 
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2 things I am speculating about. The 1st will not be possible if KJ & EC didn't live on Piedmont as I've thought all along. I held that info back til now cause of the possibility EC was still living there. But in her most recent interview she confirmed she moved IMO.
1. Did KJ have another dog? Brown & white, older. Maybe KJ left Henry's & went back home to take the other dog out for a quick 20 minute walk? When getting back to apt & EC still at work decided to take Bowie out again for some unknown reason?
Campagnola, an Italian restaurant, not really a bar like Henry's Tavern, per their website they close at 10 on Tues. So I lean away from that possibility. If they lived on Piedmont & she was coming from there that would put her path directly to where they are pictured in the crosswalk IMO.
2. I think the killer was left handed. I think someone was w/the killer. IMO someone grabbed her from behind & the neck injury occurred by the killer. Then Bowie attacked. IMO the tree limb was used to hide KJ & the killer(s) from the 10th & CA entrance & it was moved when the killer(s) left. IMO the jogger, w/the headlamp on, saw Bowie & the tree limb under the tree at 12:46am. He ran thru the gate for 21 seconds, turned around & ran out 21 seconds later. I believe that's why LE returned to PP & put the large limb in the back of the CSI van.
JMOO
 
IMO the tree limb was used to hide KJ & the killer(s) from the 10th & CA entrance & it was moved when the killer(s) left. IMO the jogger, w/the headlamp on, saw Bowie & the tree limb under the tree at 12:46am. He ran thru the gate for 21 seconds, turned around & ran out 21 seconds later. I believe that's why LE returned to PP & put the large limb in the back of the CSI van.
JMOO

That's an interesting observation. It would explain why LE went back for the branch.

I want this killer caught so bad. Her death was so senseless and cruel. It's only a matter of time before the killer(s) find another victim.

Anyone else really surprised that the police released the autopsy report? The extent and character of her injuries would have only been known to the killer, and such details would have been very useful during interrogation with suspects. The report was released a few days after Emma went public asking her name to be cleared. I wonder if they did it in response to claims that Emma and her Dad made about the crime scene (male DNA found on Katie and alleged sexual assault).
 
You should listen to the 'body bags' podcast linked upthread. Much of this is covered.

There was hemorrhaging in the stab wounds to the back, throat, and 'FA-T' carving, indicating that her heart was still beating when these wounds occurred. What confuses me is that both the stab wound to the back that severed an artery and punctured her lung and the throat cutting should have been fatal wounds by themselves. They must have happened in quick succession for the hemorrhaging to occur.

Since we don’t know the sequence of events… she could have been stabbed first without hitting the major arteries and disabled but not killed, and then mutilated, which would be consistent with the hemorrhaging as noted on autopsy (per podcast forensic expert). She would have bled to death quickly after both carotid arteries were severed. Likewise , if the aorta had a deep knife penetration or was severed….that would lead to quick exsanguination. But if the aorta was only nicked (didn’t autopsy report say the aorta was nicked? I don’t remember but think I read that) then the aortic bleeding may have been slower. Lung punctures would cause respiratory distress with difficult breathing but not necessarily quick death.

Just my opinion, but I’m more inclined to think she was disabled and mutilated first, then the deep stab wounds and neck injuries inflicted which ultimately lead to a quick death.

In any case, the suffering is so sad and horrific… definitely the work of a psych/socio path. I don’t know what to make of it.
 
I read some type of forensic report (unrelated to this case) where the victim was stabbed multiple times (no mutilation) by what was labeled a "fantasy knife". The killer also made marks with this same weapon on a tree near where the victim's body was found. I wonder if similar marks may have been found on the tree limb in this case.
 
I was very surprised the report was made public. Especially without any comment from the FCME's office or the AtlPD. I don't recall anything that horrific, describing someone's death, to be released before a suspect caught or even trial.

Edited by me as I replied to, quoted the wrong post. Apologies
 
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Moo.... i had a small farm. When i harvested i would cut both jugulars. It is not instant death, it takes a while to bleed out (not a really long time but not instant) and i am sure neither were standing while the stabbing and carving was going on. She could of ran a short distance even with neck cut because brain still functional. Moo
 
The Body Bags podcast (linked earlier in the thread) was helpful to understand so much more about Katie’s wounds. So here’s a question for people familiar with the area of PP where she was found - how was somebody able to see in the dark to mutilate her body the way they did?
 
Moo.... i had a small farm. When i harvested i would cut both jugulars. It is not instant death, it takes a while to bleed out (not a really long time but not instant) and i am sure neither were standing while the stabbing and carving was going on. She could of ran a short distance even with neck cut because brain still functional. Moo

Since jugulars are veins, bleeding out may be a little slower than from severed carotids, which is arterial and exsanguination would occur rapidly. I’m pretty sure the autopsy stated that both carotid arteries were severed, but I may be wrong and am relying on memory. It could have been the jugulars…. I apologize if I stated that incorrectly.

I found this documentation regarding blood loss from severed jugular/artery:

“The side of the neck and throat just about even with the Adam’s apple. This area contains the Carotid Artery and Jugular Vein. If either is cut the attacker will bleed to death very rapidly. The Carotid is approximately 1.5″ below the surface of the skin, and if severed unconsciousness, will result in death in approximately 5-15 seconds.”
 
The Serial-Killer Detector
By Alec Wilkinson
November 20, 2017 rbbm (sorry got carried way)

''Thomas Hargrove is a homicide archivist. For the past seven years, he has been collecting municipal records of murders, and he now has the largest catalogue of killings in the country—751,785 murders carried out since 1976, which is roughly twenty-seven thousand more than appear in F.B.I. files. States are supposed to report murders to the Department of Justice, but some report inaccurately, or fail to report altogether, and Hargrove has sued some of these states to obtain their records. Using computer code he wrote, he searches his archive for statistical anomalies among the more ordinary murders resulting from lovers’ triangles, gang fights, robberies, or brawls. Each year, about five thousand people kill someone and don’t get caught, and a percentage of these men and women have undoubtedly killed more than once. Hargrove intends to find them with his code, which he sometimes calls a serial-killer detector.

''Serial killers are not usually particularly bright, having an average I.Q. of 94.5, according to the database. They divide into types. Those who feel bound to rid the world of people they regard as immoral or undesirable—such as drug addicts, immigrants, or promiscuous women—are called missionaries.
Black widows kill men, usually to inherit money or to claim insurance; bluebeards kill women, either for money or as an assertion of power. A nurse who kills patients is called an angel of death. A troller meets a victim by chance, and a trapper either observes his victims or works at a place, such as a hospital, where his victims come to him.''
 
The Serial-Killer Detector
By Alec Wilkinson
November 20, 2017 rbbm (sorry got carried way)

''Thomas Hargrove is a homicide archivist. For the past seven years, he has been collecting municipal records of murders, and he now has the largest catalogue of killings in the country—751,785 murders carried out since 1976, which is roughly twenty-seven thousand more than appear in F.B.I. files. States are supposed to report murders to the Department of Justice, but some report inaccurately, or fail to report altogether, and Hargrove has sued some of these states to obtain their records. Using computer code he wrote, he searches his archive for statistical anomalies among the more ordinary murders resulting from lovers’ triangles, gang fights, robberies, or brawls. Each year, about five thousand people kill someone and don’t get caught, and a percentage of these men and women have undoubtedly killed more than once. Hargrove intends to find them with his code, which he sometimes calls a serial-killer detector.

''Serial killers are not usually particularly bright, having an average I.Q. of 94.5, according to the database. They divide into types. Those who feel bound to rid the world of people they regard as immoral or undesirable—such as drug addicts, immigrants, or promiscuous women—are called missionaries.
Black widows kill men, usually to inherit money or to claim insurance; bluebeards kill women, either for money or as an assertion of power. A nurse who kills patients is called an angel of death. A troller meets a victim by chance, and a trapper either observes his victims or works at a place, such as a hospital, where his victims come to him.''
Amazing. Especially the part of all the unsolved murders of women in the Atlanta area over the past 40 yrs.
Thanks for posting this dotr.
 
The perp may not be a SK at this time, but hoping and assuming geographic profilers are already well into the case, imo. rbbm.

The Serial-Killer Detector
''By reading meaning into the geography of victims and their killers, Hargrove is unwittingly invoking a discipline called geographic profiling, which is exemplified in the work of Kim Rossmo, a former policeman who is now a professor in the School of Criminal Justice at Texas State University. In 1991, Rossmo was on a train in Japan when he came up with an equation that can be used to predict where a serial killer lives, based on factors such as where the crimes were committed and where the bodies were found. As a New York City homicide detective told me, “Serial killers tend to stick to a killing field. They’re hunting for prey in a concentrated area, which can be defined and examined.” Usually, the hunting ground will be far enough from their homes to conceal where they live, but not so far that the landscape is unfamiliar. The farther criminals travel, the less likely they are to act, a phenomenon that criminologists call distance decay.

Rossmo has used geographic profiling to track terrorists—he studied where they lived, where they stored weapons, and the locations of the phone booths they used to make calls—and to identify places where epidemics began. He also worked with zoologists, to examine the hunting patterns of white sharks. Recently, Rossmo studied where the street artist Banksy left his early work, and found evidence to support the British Daily Mail’s assertion, made in 2008 but never corroborated, that Banksy is a middle-aged man from Bristol, England, named Robin Gunningham.

“In a murder investigation, when you step away from the Hollywood mystique, it’s about information,” Rossmo told me. “In any serial-murder case, the police are going to have thousands and thousands, even tens of thousands, of suspects.” In the Green River case, the police had eighteen thousand names. “So where do you start? We know quite a lot about the journey to a crime. By noting where killings took place or the bodies were discovered, you can actually create probability distributions.” In his book “Geographic Profiling,” Rossmo notes research that found, among other things, that right-handed criminals tend to turn left when fleeing but throw away evidence to the right, and that most criminals, when hiding in buildings, stay near the outside walls.''
 
Moo....live and learn..i thought the jug and carotid where same thing. But with this new knowledge then the carotid cut must have been one of the last cuts. Moo

@nao….Probably a common assumption; I knew this because of my medical background. Also, the carotid artery is good size and with rapid blood flow through the artery, it would spray and cause quite a mess with rapid blood loss. Between the severed carotids and the multitude of other wounds, the killer had to have been saturated with blood. No way around it.
 
The Body Bags podcast (linked earlier in the thread) was helpful to understand so much more about Katie’s wounds. So here’s a question for people familiar with the area of PP where she was found - how was somebody able to see in the dark to mutilate her body the way they did?
I read the autopsy report twice. I have read many in my career. But they are words on paper. To hear Joseph Morgan actually explain what those words mean is sickening. And he even still avoids some of the wounds. This was horrific.

I do wonder, as someone above did, about two different weapons. Certainly one was a very sturdy knife to deliver the blows to the back and chest, over and over. Deep wounds. But many of the wounds, face and lower have very shallow depth but very sharp force. I honesty thought about a hunting knife for some and a box cutter for others. I'd like to know more about Bowie's injuries.
 
@PrairieWind I did not listen to the podcast, but from your and others' descriptions, it certainly sounds like this killer came prepared to do some harm.

Did you ever decide if the autopsy was saying the letters were upside down on the body?
 
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I just listened to the above podcast and have done some reading about this case. My first instinct was could this be someone with an obsession for either the victim or the victims partner? I used to work in a restaurant/bar and there were many people who would come in to specifically hang around certain bartenders (in a creepy way). Perhaps someone saw them visiting and became extremely jealous, could even be someone totally unknown. Just a guy sitting at the bar who saw her as “competition.”
What podcast?
 
I read the autopsy report twice. I have read many in my career. But they are words on paper. To hear Joseph Morgan actually explain what those words mean is sickening. And he even still avoids some of the wounds. This was horrific.

I do wonder, as someone above did, about two different weapons. Certainly one was a very sturdy knife to deliver the blows to the back and chest, over and over. Deep wounds. But many of the wounds, face and lower have very shallow depth but very sharp force. I honesty thought about a hunting knife for some and a box cutter for others. I'd like to know more about Bowie's injuries.

Does this mean you think it could have been multiple weapons, aka, 2 people?

I have been watching this case from the beginning. I am from that area, and this hits close to home.

For some reason, I really think it was more than one person. I just can’t imagine one person being able to do all of the things they did, take her down, take a large dog down…..all while both of them are fighting…..and manage to overtake them both (with no noise.) blows my mind. I know that area well, and right outside that gate are TONS of townhomes and condos. Any noise…..someone would have been close enough to hear.
 
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