GA - Katherine Janness, 40, fatally stabbed and dog killed, Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 28 Jul 2021 #4

[Speculaytor]

IMO everything that is logical, as to events, always gets negated by the timeline. That small sliver of time that we have to go by of 12:09am to 1:09am. Just 60 minutes. And of course we can narrow that 60 down to 40 minutes with locations, walking from the 12:09 picture location to CA & 10th-12 minutes plus discovering them & calling 911-7 minutes. Plus, the jogger at 12:46am knocks time down to about 25 minutes. This puts the timeline to 12:21am-12:45am. I don't know how this could have happened that quickly. Ugh.
JMOO

I cannot believe NOBODY heard anything?

 

[Speculaytor]

I have not followed this case, and am shocked to find out they believe it may have been targeted. At first, I thought random attack in a city park, in the wee hours of morning. However, always wondered how you attack a person with a pitbull? Either more than one person attacked, or maybe they did know Katie and her dog??

 

[AtlantaBourne]

@AtlantaBourne, thank you for piecing together such a tight timeline based on the limited information that we know. I’ve taken a pause from this case so the timeline is a little fuzzy to me right now. Would you elaborate on what you mean by “Plus, the jogger at 12:46am knocks the timeline down to about 25 minutes. This puts the timeline to 12:21am-12:45am.”

Getting a little off the timeline subject, but a couple of notable comments from previous press conferences:

1) From one of the early pressers in 2021 shortly after the murder: I don’t recall if it was the DA or former mayor who stated that apparently the killer hung around for a while after KJ murder and wasn’t in a huge hurry to leave the crime scene, as one would expect after such a horrific crime
2) The last presser on July 28, 2022 during question and answer period, Lt Jermaine Dearlove, in response to the a reporters question, if investigators believe Katie & Bowie were killed in the park or killed somewhere else and then brought to the CA entrance, he stated @ 13:09-without hesitation-“from witness statements and follow up investigations from the investigators, we believe it happened right at the entrance to the park” At that point, Deputy Charles Hampton took over the Q & A. Key words “FROM WITNESS STATEMENTS”. Did the jogger see OR hear something? Or was there another witness in the park that came forward with some kind of information?

It's just my opinion regarding the jogger. He ran into PP at 12:46am & out 43 seconds later. Did not go back from direction he came, travelled on down 10th to the beltway, he could have continued on into the park & taken the path thru the meadows to the same point at the beltline, but for some reason he turned around left the park 22 seconds after entering. IMO I'm rambling but just trying to show why I feel the murders had already taken place. IMO the jogger would have also been attacked if the killer was still there, unless the jogger (w/the bright light on top of his head) wasn't noticed. I timed the jogger from the video released by LE & estimated his stride & came to conclusion IMOO in 22 seconds he would have travelled about 70 feet. That's why IMO the murders had already occurred.
The comment re. 'this killer hung around for a while' was made by FCDA Fani Willis. It was the press conf covering misinformation that was being reported by local news & posted on the internet by several people. Unfortunately, some of the 'misinformation' has been verified to be truth according to the FCME autopsy report of KJ. IMO this is when I began to get frustrated, confused & discouraged about the way this case was being investigated.
Regarding the last press conf IMO the Lt may have been a little too forthcoming w/info & IMO he was quickly relieved of answering questions. What he stated made me feel that someone in that area did hear something & possibly saw something but not actually the murders. Because so many WS'rs cannot believe that no one saw or heard anything at all as has been posted numerous times on these threads.

JMOHHO

 

[Cowabunga02]

It's just my opinion regarding the jogger. He ran into PP at 12:46am & out 43 seconds later. Did not go back from direction he came, travelled on down 10th to the beltway, he could have continued on into the park & taken the path thru the meadows to the same point at the beltline, but for some reason he turned around left the park 22 seconds after entering. IMO I'm rambling but just trying to show why I feel the murders had already taken place. IMO the jogger would have also been attacked if the killer was still there, unless the jogger (w/the bright light on top of his head) wasn't noticed. I timed the jogger from the video released by LE & estimated his stride & came to conclusion IMOO in 22 seconds he would have travelled about 70 feet. That's why IMO the murders had already occurred.
The comment re. 'this killer hung around for a while' was made by FCDA Fani Willis. It was the press conf covering misinformation that was being reported by local news & posted on the internet by several people. Unfortunately, some of the 'misinformation' has been verified to be truth according to the FCME autopsy report of KJ. IMO this is when I began to get frustrated, confused & discouraged about the way this case was being investigated.
Regarding the last press conf IMO the Lt may have been a little too forthcoming w/info & IMO he was quickly relieved of answering questions. What he stated made me feel that someone in that area did hear something & possibly saw something but not actually the murders. Because so many WS'rs cannot believe that no one saw or heard anything at all as has been posted numerous times on these threads.

JMOHHO

It makes sense what your opinion is about the jogger; but why the heck wouldn’t he stop outside the park, or what he considered a safe distance away and call the police???!!! What kind of person would just run away???!!! I definitely agree with you and others who feel much misinformation has been put out there, and the PD and the local government should have, since the beginning, taken a united stand on what they would communicate to their community and stick with it. It’s so much better for everyone to know little, but the truth. And as for the media and certain Councilmen, it just sets up the people of Atlanta and the family and friends with confusion and fear when ‘expert’ ‘information’ and outright lies are presented as fact, IMO. It helps no one but the press who (possibly not all) just want to be heard no matter how invalid their ‘reports’ are.

I do believe this will not end up a cold case because the police in partnership with the FBI continue to explore every avenue to find the killer/s.

 

[PrairieWind]

It's just my opinion regarding the jogger. He ran into PP at 12:46am & out 43 seconds later. Did not go back from direction he came, travelled on down 10th to the beltway, he could have continued on into the park & taken the path thru the meadows to the same point at the beltline, but for some reason he turned around left the park 22 seconds after entering. IMO I'm rambling but just trying to show why I feel the murders had already taken place. IMO the jogger would have also been attacked if the killer was still there, unless the jogger (w/the bright light on top of his head) wasn't noticed. I timed the jogger from the video released by LE & estimated his stride & came to conclusion IMOO in 22 seconds he would have travelled about 70 feet. That's why IMO the murders had already occurred.
The comment re. 'this killer hung around for a while' was made by FCDA Fani Willis. It was the press conf covering misinformation that was being reported by local news & posted on the internet by several people. Unfortunately, some of the 'misinformation' has been verified to be truth according to the FCME autopsy report of KJ. IMO this is when I began to get frustrated, confused & discouraged about the way this case was being investigated.
Regarding the last press conf IMO the Lt may have been a little too forthcoming w/info & IMO he was quickly relieved of answering questions. What he stated made me feel that someone in that area did hear something & possibly saw something but not actually the murders. Because so many WS'rs cannot believe that no one saw or heard anything at all as has been posted numerous times on these threads.

JMOHHO

I have thought much the same in regard to timing. I also think the jogger saw something. We know he was interviewed by police, apparently more than once. I have wondered if he went in to the park, perhaps to use the bathroom there, saw Bowie's body, stopped to see what it was and then got the H%^& out of there. Maybe he didn't see Katie. This would explain why he didn't notify police immediately; he didn't realize the true horror that had occurred. This would mean the murder had already occurred. I have place the earliest the attack could have occurred at around 12:26, based upone the Rainbow Crosswalk pic and time, and the distance from there to where the bodies were found. This leaves about a 20 minute window for the attack. Just my speculation.

I certainly think it is possible another witness or witness saw something, the killer perhaps, without realizing the significance at the time. Or saw Katie and Bowie.

I have also wondered if the killer wasn't interrupted before he finished his "work" on Katie. Perhaps there was to be more letters carved etc.

I am sure APD has a lot more evidence we have not been made aware of. But it isn't enough to have led to an arrest yet.

 

[Cowabunga02]

I have thought much the same in regard to timing. I also think the jogger saw something. We know he was interviewed by police, apparently more than once. I have wondered if he went in to the park, perhaps to use the bathroom there, saw Bowie's body, stopped to see what it was and then got the H%^& out of there. Maybe he didn't see Katie. This would explain why he didn't notify police immediately; he didn't realize the true horror that had occurred. This would mean the murder had already occurred. I have place the earliest the attack could have occurred at around 12:26, based upone the Rainbow Crosswalk pic and time, and the distance from there to where the bodies were found. This leaves about a 20 minute window for the attack. Just my speculation.

I certainly think it is possible another witness or witness saw something, the killer perhaps, without realizing the significance at the time. Or saw Katie and Bowie.

I have also wondered if the killer wasn't interrupted before he finished his "work" on Katie. Perhaps there was to be more letters carved etc.

I am sure APD has a lot more evidence we have not been made aware of. But it isn't enough to have led to an arrest yet.

That does make sense why the jogger didn’t call 911 if he only saw Bowie, but still a hurt or dead dog??? Wouldn’t a caring person call because of seeing that???

 

[Cowabunga02]

That does make sense why the jogger didn’t call 911 if he only saw Bowie, but still a hurt or dead dog??? Wouldn’t a caring person call because of seeing that???

I always stop to call if I see a dog by himself, and I would especially if it seemed hurt and so late at night.

 

[Cowabunga02]

I always stop to call if I see a dog by himself, and I would especially if it seemed hurt and so late at night.

I sound a bit too harsh, not everyone is an animal lover.

 

[MntnHiker]

I also wonder if the murder was in the process of happening when the jogger ran in. I believe it's been speculated before and I agree with the speculation that perhaps from a distance, in the cover of darkness the jogger saw two figures doing...something and decide to just turn around and get out of dodge. One possibility is that he thought two people were having sex. Another could be that he saw two figures in a nefarious area and thought a drug deal or something similar was going on and just wanted no part in it.

Obviously we know someone was instead being brutally murdered. However, it's dark, you are preoccupied with jogging, up ahead just notice two dark figures doing..something, maybe one even on top of the other, and decide you don't want any part in it so you just turn around. I wouldn't be surprised if the jogger, when questioned by LE, told them as much, and they just haven't released that to the public. MOO

 

[Megnut]

Perhaps the jogger didn't see anything, but what he heard, he misinterpreted, not as violence, but coupling and beat a hasty retreat accordingly.

 

[Atlmom]

And the person running from the park with the blood curdling screams we could hear when Emma was making the 911 call…. Had he been deeper in the park and was he making his way to the CA exit when he saw Katie & Bowie and possibly, in hindsight, recalled seeing someone he passed who was heading deeper into the park that aroused suspicion? All speculation, but I have always believed the killer did not exit from the CA gate.

 

[PrairieWind]

And the person running from the park with the blood curdling screams we could hear when Emma was making the 911 call…. Had he been deeper in the park and was he making his way to the CA exit when he saw Katie & Bowie and possibly, in hindsight, recalled seeing someone he passed who was heading deeper into the park that aroused suspicion? All speculation, but I have always believed the killer did not exit from the CA gate.

I think it is almost certain the killer didn't exit through CA gate.

 

[ConundrumPonderer]

Why do you think, Realanastasia, IYO, a killer would carve ‘faith?’ Seems the polar opposite of an ugly message. Just wondering.

To you, me and everyone on WS, this would be the polar opposite, but to a Mission Oriented Killer, or a Visionary Killer, (they don’t have to have succeeded in committing more than one crime, but often have) this could easily be an act of “faith”, if that was indeed what the perpetrator was trying to say. A couple of famous examples were the first cases I thought of when I heard about Katherine and Bowie. One was Peter Sutcliffe, The Yorkshire Ripper, he told police, the court and his brother that his mission was to rid the world of prostitution, that God himself was telling him to do this. Raping and brutally murdering several ladies and girls, some in the oldest profession, others not, was, to him, a perfectly reasonable ‘Act of Faith’. It goes without saying that the vast majority of believers in Christianity would certainly disagree.
link to Sun article with Sutcliffe police interview (and a response to his nonsense from the young lady who survived his attack):Yorkshire Ripper admits to attacking schoolgirl in chilling recording
link to Psychology Today article on types of killers:Serial Killers
Purely speculative, but trying to understand the facts released thus far by LE I think is helpful for brainstorming.

 

[ConundrumPonderer]

To that point, and not to sound like a TV detective, but IMO the killer performed this mutilation to make a statement. Someone so repulsive and antisocial probably lacks self-control in other areas. So intending sarcasm or a private joke to add to all the humiliation is not impossible.

The great irony is that the killer(s), who may have wanted to demean and annihilate KJ and a beloved pet, ultimately will be a scourge to their own family, community, and even fellow inmates.

This is a reasonable consideration. It goes back to the question investigators and profilers have to answer, what is M.O. and what is signature? Of course how antisocial is an important question, do people notice or do they cover it well?

 

[AtlantaBourne]

This is a reasonable consideration. It goes back to the question investigators and profilers have to answer, what is M.O. and what is signature? Of course how antisocial is an important question, do people notice or do they cover it well?

IMO they cover it very, very well. Just like a really good actor or improvisation artist. IMO like the type of person that would possibly perform, in let's say, an improv theatre...or the like. But this is only my amateur opinion.
Back to the jogger, possibly cutting thru on the 'street' side of the public RR to get to the pathway going thru the meadows & to the beltline. IMO would not have been able to see KJ or B. Possibly someone told him, Get out, the park is closed or something related. IMO startling him enough to turn around & jog back out.
all just my thoughts & opinions

 

[Quell]

In this article, Fulton DA Fani Willis mentions the killer likely lingered at the scene:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/brutal-killing-of-a-woman-and-her-dog-in-an-atlanta-park-reignites-the-debate-over-citys-growing-crime-problem/2021/09/13/eae59cb2-0740-11ec-a266-7c7fe02fa374_story.html

 

[Cowabunga02]

IMO they cover it very, very well. Just like a really good actor or improvisation artist. IMO like the type of person that would possibly perform, in let's say, an improv theatre...or the like. But this is only my amateur opinion.
Back to the jogger, possibly cutting thru on the 'street' side of the public RR to get to the pathway going thru the meadows & to the beltline. IMO would not have been able to see KJ or B. Possibly someone told him, Get out, the park is closed or something related. IMO startling him enough to turn around & jog back out.
all just my thoughts & opinions

Regarding your first thought, AtlantBourne, that’s a very intelligent theory. People on WS come up with quite thought-out possibilities. The second one, too, but the first has stuck in my mind.

 

[fred&edna]

There must have been some sort of evidence leading LE to the pond since they used divers to search... was there a blood trail? I'm sure this has been discussed previously but I simply can't remember any details (if we had them).

 

[mickey2942]

This may sound harsh, but many people, if hearing a lot of drama, will absolutely leave the area, and not contact police. They may have reasons to want to stay away from LEO.

The vivid description of the attack on KJ, is interesting. I do not believe that this was a random crime. That type of stabbing, continued and deliberate, is rage. Emotional and visceral.

 

[AtlantaBourne]

Regarding your first thought, AtlantBourne, that’s a very intelligent theory. People on WS come up with quite thought-out possibilities. The second one, too, but the first has stuck in my mind.

Thank you @Cowabunga02 for the compliment.. 1st time someone has referred to me as intelligent in quite some time. You made my day!
There are quite alot. of intelligent posts on this particular thread IMO.
Also IMO, beginning to feel some have looked in the wrong direction on who the killer could be, including myself. IMO I need to do a 180° on Piedmont & look in that direction.
Again, this is only my thoughts & opinions.