GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #14

[SmoothOperator]

Great post, Smooth.

I very well remember when Mrs. Giddings' words about Lauren's hands were first in the news and we were talking about it here, and I remember your post that you just quoted. I was very moved by it; I think most everyone here was. Especially all the "mommas".

My own daughter and I were sitting outside last night after it had cooled down a bit, and I was telling her about what Mrs. Giddings said and about how you recalled the wonder and awe most new parents feel at looking at their little new arrival's tiny hands, counting all the little fingers.

Lauren's mom said some very memorable things in the most recent Telegraph article, too, things that just wrench the heart. I know so many people have been thinking of her and praying for her (and all Lauren's family) this week.

And Kaitlyn -- in one of the phone interviews (I think it was) aired on one of the television reports from this week we have linked ... she says her last memory of Lauren is from her wedding, where Lauren was, of course, her maid of honor. I had never specifically thought about that Kaitlyn probably left directly for her honeymoon from the wedding, not seeing Lauren again during the brief rest of her visit "back home" -- don't know that for sure, but it makes sense and seemed to be what she was saying in the interview. So sad.

Yes, I, too recall Kaitlyn speaking about her last memories of seeing big sister, Lauren at her wedding.. i remember her talking of all Lauren had done in helping out for Kaitlyn 's special day and for some reason I have a recollection of Lauren having baked tons of Sunflower decorated cupcakes for it..,???? ..am i correctly recalling that or am I merging two memories of Lauren?:waitasec:

Anyhow, yes, I believe you're correct about Kaitlyn immediately having left on her honeymoon and actually she had just then arrived back home to Maryland when the events began to occur that led to the unfolding of Lauren being discovered as missing.. iirc it was THE DAY SHE GOT HOME that one of Lauren's friends contacted Kaitlyn about being concerned in not being able to make contact with Lauren for several days.. it was Kaitlyn who told the friend to go to Lauren's Bannister Hall apt and use the outside key to go in and check on Lauren.. so, Lauren's murder had likely occurred while Kaitlyn was on her honeymoon.. so, so tragic in looking at in terms of it being one of the happiest times of Kaitlyns life.. her life with her husband just beginning...returning from a paradise of a honeymoon on cloud nine.. only to discover a true heartbreaking nightmare that was awaiting to be discovered..

This family is so blessed in so very many ways, and yet is so very much living and breathing a nightmare.. thrust into a horrific situation of epic proportions by absolutely no doing of their own.. makes it just all the more tragic in so many ways.. tho, I must say that IMO if anyone can persevere and bond together to survive such tragedy it is this Giddings family..

Be not mislead that I believe them to be some extraordinary, idyllic family of perfection because I am very much a realist and don't believe in fairy tales here in our real world.. I'm certain they've had many challenges, failures, and ups and downs as we all have had.. but I do believe they very much have a family built upon a very strong foundation made up hard work, morals, and a great faith in their Lord.. and I believe that unlike so many families(mine for example) I believe they are very, close knit, active and involved in each others daily lives.. those are just a few of the examples I give as the reason I'm of the opinion that if any family can persevere such tragedy and bond together, lean on one other when one wants to give up, or becomes too weary, too wounded, or altogether wants to give up..they without a doubt have got each others back 100+% and are made of the "stuff" that will make it through to the other side..

Sadly I believe Lauren was their biggest cheerleader, the Giddings family mascot if you will, the biggest pep coach imaginable.. and I can see her looking down and cheering them on even now in their daily lives.. giving them a push when needed...and always reminding to look on the bright side.. that even tho it may not seem there is a bright side, nor any light at all in such a time of pain and sadness ..but Lauren could find the light...she could find the bright side.. find something to smile about and to keep moving forward..

I know how much they miss her.. someone that big in this life(and by no means am I merely speaking in physicality here) but rather one whose presence is as big as Lauren's.. as bright and shining as Lauren's.. that cannot be extinguished merely by the physical body having been passed on from this earthly life..no way.. and that's why I know her family tho, they cannot physically touch and tangibly hold their Lauren in their arms, they can however feel her presence, feel her warmth, and know that she is still here with them in so very many ways..

Its all of those things and a thousand other reasons that I KNOW that tho, difficult beyond what my simple words can describe.. that this family will make it through to the other side.. only stronger, closer, and even more thankful and grateful for what they all each have in one another.. jmo.

 

[bessie]

Maybe just because he was little and cute and compact ... and maybe Southern? (As Sonya talks about the Southern connection in her post.) I don't know about the him-being-Southern part, because I don't know if she brought him with her or acquired him "down here".

One of Honeybelle's pups (now grown) has a white-with-black-ticking chest and collar, belly and undersides of legs, and a white tip on his tail -- but all the rest of him is shiny, smooth polished-looking black. His name is Skillet, (I love my cast iron cookware!), because that color reminded me of a well-seasoned one.

Ha! Skillet. I love that.

I haven't had a pup in quite awhile now, but I belong to a very loving feline family. Including my husband and me, there are seven of us.

The heat is terrible here, too, but we haven't hit 108! Make sure you stay well hydrated.

I've been out of sorts all week -- listless, a little queasy, just blah -- and I know it's the heat and humidity because I have spells like this every summer.

 

[pearl]

Off-topic here. Please remove if needed.

Having been born and raised in south Florida, I'm no stranger to hot weather. However, the heat in southeast Georgia can be described as debilitating. I can be drenched in sweat just walking from my house outside to the garden. Our high yesterday was 106 degrees. I'm looking forward to it being a little less hot later this week but am not looking forward to the electrical storm that will probably end the heat wave.

 

[Sonya610]

The old articles and such made me think about the mysterious "hoodlums" email again (which doesn't make sense for so many reasons, in part the timing).

That gets brought up in the famous MCD interview video along with his comments saying "he could have lent her a handgun". I am probably analyzing this too deeply but that response seems very odd to me for two reasons.

1) He didn't say "if she needed one" he just KNEW she didn't have any weapons in the house?

2) He never said "why didn't she tell me someone tried to break in?" Wouldn't it be natural for a guy like MCD, who apparently had firearms and other weapons for self defense to have also said "Why didn't she tell me if she was afraid, I live right next door and would be right here to help!". Plus any neighbor would WANT to know if attempted break-ins were occurring.

McDaniel was a Southern boy and a gun lover. Southern males tend to be very helpful and courteous and they would have felt obligated to HELP a single female neighbor in distress, in fact many of them would welcome the opportunity to use their arsenal. They wouldn't just say "Well Missy, I'll would be more than happy to loan you a small firearm if ya need it; that way if you get attacked by thugs in your apartment you can handle it yourself -- I'll be a few feet away playing video games and studying and I'll stay out of it".

He distances himself from the situation, he keeps himself OUT of the picture entirely. I recently read an article about how to analyze defendant statements for signs of guilt, that is one of the big things they look for, people tell their story but suddenly distance themselves from the part that involves criminal acts. That seems odd. I am on the fence regarding all of this so to me it is significant, to others that just KNOW he did it, then it wouldn't be.

Since there are plenty of Southerners posting on this thread, would most agree that is an atypical response for a gun loving Southern boy?

 

[bessie]

respectfully snipped

He distances himself from the situation, he keeps himself OUT of the picture entirely. I recently read an article about how to analyze defendant statements for signs of guilt, that is one of the big things they look for, people tell their story but suddenly distance themselves from the part that involves criminal acts. That seems odd. I am on the fence regarding all of this so to me it is significant, to others that just KNOW he did it, then it wouldn't be.

Since there are plenty of Southerners posting on this thread, would most agree that is an atypical response for a gun loving Southern boy?

Sonya, to some of us who "just know he did it", that was significant from the beginning. He was quick to offer information about the friends who were at the apartment that night, for instance. He gave names and described where one friend lived. Yet he went dumb on the points that one would reasonably expect him to know, like the "Macon hoodlums" and the alleged attempted break in at Lauren's apartment. I found it very odd that Lauren would not have alerted her neighbors to the incident, even moreso now that we know more about Lauren's character. It seemed strange to me when I first heard the interview because any young woman in that position would commonly tell a next door neighbor, a guy who was her classmate, a law student, and who had lived next door for at least a couple of years, even if she thought he was a little "weird". If nothing else, I think she would have asked him if he had seen or heard someone lurking around the apartment. So the fact that he claimed to have "no idea" (iirc those were his words) there was an attempted break in added to my suspicions from the get go.

To your last question, I also found his reaction weaker than I would have expected. I agree with you that generally a "Southern boy" as you describe would take a more protective stance, particularly one with a bent toward vigilantism and whose moniker is Son of Liberty. But maybe that part was all talk and he's really just a milquetoast.

 

[bessie]

Since the topic has come up again I thought it might be a good idea to bring these forward.

Thanks to the WS member who prepared a transcript of the McD interview with comments from the reporter, Michelle Quezada. These are links to the four parts.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 25 June 2011


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 25 June 2011


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 25 June 2011


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 25 June 2011


Link to the video:

http://www.wusa9.com/video/1092269607001/1/Full-Stephen-McDaniel-Interview-June-30-2011

 

[Sonya610]

I found it very odd that Lauren would not have alerted her neighbors to the incident, even moreso now that we know more about Lauren's character. It seemed strange to me when I first heard the interview because any young woman in that position would commonly tell a next door neighbor, a guy who was her classmate, a law student, and who had lived next door for at least a couple of years, even if she thought he was a little "weird". If nothing else, I think she would have asked him if he had seen or heard someone lurking around the apartment. So the fact that he claimed to have "no idea" (iirc those were his words) there was an attempted break in added to my suspicions from the get go.

I don't just think it was odd that HE had no idea. Neither did the landlord, or her friends, or the people she texted and chatted with frequently. She was quick to call 911, but didn't.

On the otherhand I don't believe that McDaniel (if he is the killer) sent that email. I recall most of the email and interview discussions occuring right after the murder. At that time no one really had any idea how crazy MCD was and that made all sorts of weird things plausible, the actions of crazy lunatics don't have to make sense. Now a year later it does appear that if MCD did this he was smart and careful and that means he was logical.

The timing of the email makes me think the killer didn't send it. Everyone agrees that Lauren wrote at least the first part of that email, that means if the killer finished the email he would have just happened to catch her while she was typing it out, then right after she was dead he rushed over to her laptop, saw the email, crafted a red herring and sent it off. That makes no sense, the killer would be busy immediately after the murder and snooping around her laptop would be a low priority, most importantly (now that we know McDaniel is not a raving lunatic but a pretty smart guy) he would NOT have sent an email like that out immediately, he would want to buy some time at the very least. Last thing the killer would want to do is fire off an email that COULD cause the boyfriend/recipient to start calling and worrying, and maybe even have someone show up at Laurens apartment to check on her if she didn't respond all while the killer was dismembering the body in her bathroom.

I think there is a third possibility, I don't want to go into details because because this is a "victim friendly site" but I think the email might be pure coincidence in relation to the murder itself. Keep in mind Boni Bush was calling and leaving notes asking when she would be moving out, and Bush was surprised when she realized Lauren hadn't even started packing. Sure seems like she SHOULD have been moving out that weekend (last weekend of the month, lease is up), and moving in with her boyfriend, but the boyfriend was busy ignoring "where is this relationship going" emails while vacationing on the other side of the country, emails that end with something like "I think hoodlums tried to break in and now I don't even feel safe living here anymore, I could be in danger living here". She hadn't even started packing and her lease was up in later that week. She probably didn't know if she was going to be moving after all.

 

[Backwoods]

Off-topic here. Please remove if needed.

Having been born and raised in south Florida, I'm no stranger to hot weather. However, the heat in southeast Georgia can be described as debilitating. I can be drenched in sweat just walking from my house outside to the garden. Our high yesterday was 106 degrees. I'm looking forward to it being a little less hot later this week but am not looking forward to the electrical storm that will probably end the heat wave.

bbm: nor the electrical bill that will follow it!

 

[Backwoods]

<respectfully snipped for focus>

Last thing the killer would want to do is fire off an email that COULD cause the boyfriend/recipient to start calling and worrying, and maybe even have someone show up at Laurens apartment to check on her if she didn't respond all while the killer was dismembering the body in her bathroom.

Sonya, I'm glad you've reintroduced the topic of the email. It has rolled back around to the forefront of my thoughts on all this in recent weeks -- seems to do that periodically.

I have some thoughts on it (mostly just ones I'm trying to sort through, not any earth-shattering revelations) that I'd like to explore a bit later, as I just have a few minutes right now. But I do have time to respond a little to your statement I quoted above.

I always thought it highly unlikely the killer would craft and insert the hoodlums story, for the reasons you mentioned. Then someone here, not so long ago -- and wish I could remember who, as I'd be happy to credit them -- suggested perhaps the killer did insert that, in an original wish to set some checking on Lauren into motion. The thought was that maybe, originally, killer did not plan to dismember, etc. -- that perhaps the murder maybe was not premeditated (if SM, maybe the she-surprised-him-snooping-her-apartment scenario). The poster suggested that, at first, the hope might have been that someone would come to check on her, find her deceased, and somehow attribute it to "hoodlums".

Theory has its problems, too, but just another possibility to consider.

 

[Sonya610]

I always thought it highly unlikely the killer would craft and insert the hoodlums story, for the reasons you mentioned. Then someone here, not so long ago -- and wish I could remember who, as I'd be happy to credit them -- suggested perhaps the killer did insert that, in an original wish to set some checking on Lauren into motion. The thought was that maybe, originally, killer did not plan to dismember, etc. --

Hmmm. If the killer panicked and thought "send an email saying hoodlums were trying to break in" the next thought would be "stage a break in, break a window, and make it look like a robbery, take the purse, cell phone, and any other valuables".

Not likely they would walk away, leave the apartment appearing perfectly normal, and then decide dismemberment was required at some later time. If they got worried later they would create a cover for their original story. They would stress and analyze the facts/evidence and the email and such. Most people would clean up finger prints or anything else before they would resort to cutting the body up, that would be the very last resort (unless they liked the idea) especially for an educated fellow student/neighbor that wouldn't have to explain random fingerprints or hair, they could just say "Oh, yeah, I have been in her place a few times, we were next door neighbors."

(PS that electrical storm is rolling in right now, didn't see that coming.)

 

[Backwoods]

(PS that electrical storm is rolling in right now, didn't see that coming.)

bbm: We got it, too, Sonya, and were without electricity from a little after 6 p.m. until a little after midnight. And still lots of thunder and lightning around even now! So I can't tarry here tonight, got a lot of "catch-up work" to do and then some sleep.

Sure hope everybody is doing OK with the various weather conditions!!

 

[pearl]

bumping up

 

[Sonya610]

bbm: We got it, too, Sonya, and were without electricity from a little after 6 p.m. until a little after midnight. And still lots of thunder and lightning around even now! So I can't tarry here tonight, got a lot of "catch-up work" to do and then some sleep.

Sure hope everybody is doing OK with the various weather conditions!!

Yeah we got hit hard, lost power until 4 am. Very glad it is back on, if the temperature soars again being without well water or air conditioning is really not a good thing (maybe it will convince me to buy gas for the generator though!).

One more thought on the email, and more on why I don't think McDaniel even knew about that email until the friends found it...

He is dropping names left and right during that interview, giving the names of everyone that was there searching for her and also I think mentioning the names of people she had met early on Saturday. When it comes to the boyfriend he says "She has a boyfriend in Atlanta but I can't remember his name" then regarding the email he says "She emailed some friend...we think he is in Atlanta".

If he sent the email he surely figured out who it was going to, I think he really couldn't remember VanDivers name. He just finished a police interview and generally the goal is to mention as many names as possible, so he likely would have told the press IF he could recall what it was, I surely don't see McDaniel omitting the name in order to protect VanDiver.

I don't mean to trash other people's theories, but the email doesn't sound like it was written to summon help, dialing 911 and hanging up would have accomplished that easily enough. If the killer was that unorganized and impulsive he would have screwed up in other ways and probably cracked under police pressure ages ago.

 

[pearl]

bumping up

 

[pearl]

up again

 

[McMunn]

Ok, y'all, I have a question. If you were SMD, and you were going to engrave your initials on your swords, which initials would you use? SMM or SMD? The reason why I'm asking, is that my daughter and I were at an antique/junk store today in Macon, and the guy had two matching swords like this one: http://www.windlass.com/p-251-pirate-king-cutlass.aspx My daughter pulls it out of the sheath, and notices that there are initials engraved, along with a series of numbers (should have taken a pic of it). The initials were SMD, and guy selling it mentions something about them being in police custody, according to the man who sold them to him. Could the engraving been done by the PD?

Since we know that SMD collected swords, my daughter and I kind of looked at each other like, "Wow, are you thinking what I'm thinking?"

Oh, and the other really weird thing, was that the guy who sold them to the store owner, did bathtub repairs.

This could be completely unrelated to SMD, but it sure made me wonder. We may still go back and take a picture of it... I'm sure that it will still be there since he said that he has had them for a while.

 

[pearl]

Ok, y'all, I have a question. If you were SMD, and you were going to engrave your initials on your swords, which initials would you use? SMM or SMD? The reason why I'm asking, is that my daughter and I were at an antique/junk store today in Macon, and the guy had two matching swords like this one: http://www.windlass.com/p-251-pirate-king-cutlass.aspx My daughter pulls it out of the sheath, and notices that there are initials engraved, along with a series of numbers (should have taken a pic of it). The initials were SMD, and guy selling it mentions something about them being in police custody, according to the man who sold them to him. Could the engraving been done by the PD?

Since we know that SMD collected swords, my daughter and I kind of looked at each other like, "Wow, are you thinking what I'm thinking?"

Oh, and the other really weird thing, was that the guy who sold them to the store owner, did bathtub repairs.

This could be completely unrelated to SMD, but it sure made me wonder. We may still go back and take a picture of it... I'm sure that it will still be there since he said that he has had them for a while.

Maybe you should contact Macon law enforcement about them.

 

[McMunn]

Maybe you should contact Macon law enforcement about them.

I'm thinking that as well, Pearl. I have a deputy who lives across the street from me. I'm going to ask him, since it's not in the Macon PD's district.

 

[pearl]

I'm thinking that as well, Pearl. I have a deputy who lives across the street from me. I'm going to ask him, since it's not in the Macon PD's district.

I shudder to think about the possibility that this sword is SM's. Please let us know anything further.

 

[tomkat]

Ok, y'all, I have a question. If you were SMD, and you were going to engrave your initials on your swords, which initials would you use? SMM or SMD? The reason why I'm asking, is that my daughter and I were at an antique/junk store today in Macon, and the guy had two matching swords like this one: http://www.windlass.com/p-251-pirate-king-cutlass.aspx My daughter pulls it out of the sheath, and notices that there are initials engraved, along with a series of numbers (should have taken a pic of it). The initials were SMD, and guy selling it mentions something about them being in police custody, according to the man who sold them to him. Could the engraving been done by the PD?

Since we know that SMD collected swords, my daughter and I kind of looked at each other like, "Wow, are you thinking what I'm thinking?"

Oh, and the other really weird thing, was that the guy who sold them to the store owner, did bathtub repairs.

This could be completely unrelated to SMD, but it sure made me wonder. We may still go back and take a picture of it... I'm sure that it will still be there since he said that he has had them for a while.

SMM, stephen mark mcdaniel, i use S MD, for stephen McD(aniel),

Do you mean the swords had been in police custody or the man who owned them was in police custody or IS in police custody??

BUT THAT DOES ALL SEEM A LITTLE TOO COINCIDENTAL !!!