GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 2

[GeorgiaSunshine]

Has anyone noticed that while rotating his head fully left and right and raising upper extremity overhead close to camera for several minutes in bright sunlight that there is not a single visible laceration, abrasion, bruise, swelling or redness visible on SM - on the very parts of a perpetrator's body most likely to be injured when facing their victim while committing murder and cutting the body up? A sharp weapon such as a knife was probably used at some point and repeatedly to dismember multiple large joints of a muscular woman. Blood makes knives slippery and dangerous for the attacker. A sword in one fell swipe? Perhaps but these questions are examples of what a prosecutor must overcome to convince a jury to convict such an unlikely defendant. How likely a gun was used? The Spencers were home and have given statements to reporters. Why would they not mention hearing a sound that could have been a gun shot? SM would not likely have
the physical strength to strangle a 6 feet tall 27 year old athlete even with a device. The camera/reporter crew noticed....zero evidence of his skin being near a knife.

SeaStorm can you please give reference to an article or video you are talking about? I have no idea what you are speaking of, and I agree with the other comments on here that this is a very classy website that talks about opinion if it is not fact, and everyone is quite professional on here. Just travel to a Macon.com article and read the comments there to see the difference, no comparison to Websleuths.

 

[southern_comfort]

This article was written on July 4th Destini.

In addition to Giddings’ apartment, police went back through the apartment below hers as well as the entire complex, police spokeswoman Jami Gaudet said in a news release Sunday afternoon.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/04/1619672/police-sifting-through-clues-in.html#ixzz1SEu9YZAN

and this-

http://macon.13wmaz.com/news/news/search-clues-resumes-friday-giddings-case/54936

​

I also found this in the same macon.com article linked above ...

Another neighbor, Neil Spencer, lives in an apartment with his mother one floor below that of Giddings and said he’s seen police working during the night on the case.

While he described the situation as “horrible,” Spencer feels safe with the police in the area. In any case, he plans to stay alert.

“I hope whoever did that, the police will find that person and bring closure for Lauren’s family,” Spencer said.

My Question:
It was my understanding from previous discussions on WS that Ms Spencer and her son lived in the apartment directly below McD and that the apt directly below Lauren's was the apt that another student (?) was in the process of moving out. How can this be if Neil Spencer, the son, lives directly below Lauren's apartment?

The links aren't working for me, but from what you've snipped there, I don't see a conflict. "one floor below" ≠ "directly below". It just means that NS lives one floor below LG (and SD, her next door neighbor).

Then we have seen other reports that narrow it down to a specific unit below SD.

 

[Sandstorm]

The point I am attempting to clarify is who is in which apartment.
If you are standing in the parking lot of Barristers Hall Apt and looking towards the apartments:

upstairs left - lauren
upstairs right - McD
downstairs left - empty now, frig was removed, student was in process of moving out
downstairs right - Ms Spencer and son, Neil

This configuration is important when we try to understand noise, crime scene, etc.

 

[southern_comfort]

Here's a theory: SM is not the perpetrator of this horrific crime. He is an accomplished student, who after 19 years of school... the last 3 grueling law study preceded by LSAT study & passage... continues to attend an intensive week of bar exam prep and practice testing and to display in his video interview his same Mayberry decent character that he has always shown for 25 years. He is not an actor or mentally ill or a criminal. Examine the entire video, not just a 3 minute excerpt. Psychopathic dismembering murderers rarely begin with zero violent crime history. Where is the evidence, not conjecture, but the irrefutable evidence that he committed actual burglary? That his possession of a master key equals his guilt of killing and dismembering this innocent girl? Lauren Giddings respected the American justice system and committed her life to studying it and participating in its process. But our justice system is a sham and none of us are protected by its process if it is not respected and followed: innocent until PROVEN guilty. Consider the dishonor we do this particular victim if her neighbor and classmate is ruined and found guilty by public opinion while the actual murderer escapes to commit another such act. I do not know who committed this nightmare but our system must be allowed to work with as much absence of inflaming and confusing potential jurors as possible. Please post based only on KNOWN FACT. Thank you for your great vigorous discussion:twocents:

That is one of the theories I entertain and I feel the same way you do about the evidence. Working with the evidence of which we have knowledge right now, the theory that SM is not the perp is, IMO, a very likely theory. That is not to say there won't be more forthcoming that will change everything. Maybe there will, maybe there won't.

But right now, there is nobody else about whom the public can speculate much. LE seems focused on SM. If they've got another focus, they aren't sharing.

Do you have a link to the full interview with SM where I can see him in the light you describe in your other post? Did the reporter/camera person discuss a lack of scratches/abrasions? I would like to see that, if they did. Whenever you refer to the media, you should include a link.

Finally, I think one of the most helpful things you can do is to use the alert button at the top right when you see someone posting a false "fact", or trying to pass a rumor or opinion off as fact. Requiring a link to the mainstream media (MSM) report that contains the fact helps keep us all honest.

Before I am likewise accused of having some hidden agenda, I'm not a criminal defense attorney, nor am I related to SM.

 

[currcat]

Since these two pictures were taken on different days...

http://www.macon.com/2011/06/30/1615...partments.html

http://www.macon.com/2011/06/30/1615...partments.html

Is it possible that on the day her body was found, there was a trash can located at the base of the tree in question, which contained the torso? Are the trash cans placed on the same side of the building as the cordoned-off tree? The trash cans, I think, would tend to get moved around a lot. Perhaps the killer even placed the trash can under the tree before retrieving the body from inside, to make his disposal of the body more covert? LE was drawn to the spot by the stench.

Indy Anna: these links do not seem to be working now- is there any other location to reference these pictures that you know of? Do you know if these were pics of the location of the cans the day the torso was discovered? I have some thoughts/questions about the location/placement of those cans and would like to see these pics. Wondering too if the cans were in the same location on Wed night when the Mercer PD came out as they were later in the morning (Thurs) when the discovery was made, or had they been moved in the early hours by someone for pick up that was to occur that morning?

I concur that the "odor" may not have been as noticable in the night air as it would have been after the sun came up---here in GA the heat can ramp up pretty quickly after sunrise this time of year.

Still wondering about many things and anxious for some sort of official information regarding the evidence that has been taken from the scenes.

 

[SouthernKate]

The point I am attempting to clarify is who is in which apartment.
If you are standing in the parking lot of Barristers Hall Apt and looking towards the apartments:

upstairs left - lauren
upstairs right - McD
downstairs left - empty now, frig was removed, student was in process of moving out
downstairs right - Ms Spencer and son, Neil

This configuration is important when we try to understand noise, crime scene, etc.

http://www.macon.com/2011/06/30/1615815_a1630658/body-found-at-downtown-macon-apartments.html

Here is a link to the photo gallery on Macon.com. I hope it links directly to the pic I want, and not the entire gallery. If not, it's about the 6th or 7th pic after clicking "next" through the gallery.

It shows them moving the refrigerator out of the apartment below LG's. If you notice, the stairs are coming down beside it from the right side of the building. This would indicate that, facing the building, LG would be on top right and McDaniel's apt. would be on the top left.

 

[currcat]

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/16/1633117/no-lab-results-yet-in-giddings.html

Macon Telegraph this morning states no reports back on any of the evidence the FBI has.

I did not know that the information regarding the master seemed to have come from the neighbor in the apt below SM as this article seems to indicate. If true, then it seems as if it may have been common knowledge that SM had a master, perhaps even provieded by the complex for after-hours type incidents of lock out or whatever that perhaps mgmt might not want to bother with????

 

[Sandstorm]

Ms Spencer did not know that McD had a master key. It was not 'common knowledge', it was just the opposite:

Quote:

Spencer said he informed her that investigators had found a passkey in McDaniel’s apartment.

“The detective told me ... (McDaniel) had a master key to all these apartments,” Spencer said. “That was shocking.”

Spencer, 66, said the detective even tried the key in her door’s lock -- and it opened.

She said she then asked the detective, “I wonder how he got a master key?”

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/14/163...om-apartment.html#disqus_thread#ixzz1SHOkqVah

 

[angelanalyzes]

Earlier in this thread, there was a discussion that LG had a door jamb that gave further support/security to the door in her apartment. Assuming that the email by LG about the break-in was legit, would the door jamb have stopped someone from coming in who had a key? I am not familiar with those devices, but would be curious if that was what prevented the intruder from coming in. LG would have to have been in the apartment to secure the device on the door and it probably would have been at night.

Hogue and Hogue are considered to be two of the best criminal defense attorneys in Georgia. They are in Macon. Don't know anything about Buford and I practiced in Macon for years. His website seems to indicate that personal injury might be more of his focus.

Morgan and Morgan in FL handles personal injury, but they took on Vasco Thompson and Zaneida Gonzales both for similar reasons...a personal injury atty could be handling McD for the purpose of eventual "defamation" charges of some kind while also handling his burglary case.

 

[AgentFrankLundy]

New to all this but have been following all with great interest as this appears to be a serial killer, but perhaps not. I think the text message Lauren allegedly sent was not Lauren. If she thought someone had been trying to break in, why not call police, why not call period, instead of text a guy in Atlanta? And lots of discussion regarding where the body (torso) was when found . Could very well be that the Macon reporter does not have his facts correct in his reporting and there is no discrepancy between what some of us think , that it was left to the other side of the building instead of in a trash can.
As far as SM goes, makes a lot of sense that LG was "forbidden fruit" to a lonely socially awkward guy ( looks like a gamer, has lots of tattoos and wears chain mail) , but he also doesn't seem the type that could carry this out and else virtually no evidence of it . Some have theorized there is a ton of evidence and MPD is just dotting all their Is and Crossing all their Ts to make sure we don't have another Casey Anthony trial on our hands . I am not so sure. The Macon paper reported the Forenscis would be in by this past Thursday. Did they really "not come back yet" as reported in this morning's paper or was there just nothing there that nails SM and they dont want to let him go ? After all, he looks sketchy , is weird . Not sure he could dismember LG though. Was power in Apt 1 on or off. Why did coroner say when body was discovered she could not have been dead for long ? Lends credence to off site captivity , torture, and perhaps cannibalism necrophilia as has been suggested by some . Lots of hunting camps and property in neighboring counties . Or perhaps put in fridge .I doubt torso would fit in fridge very easily So many questions , so very few answers .

 

[currcat]

Ms Spencer did not know that McD had a master key. It was not 'common knowledge', it was just the opposite:

Quote:

Spencer said he informed her that investigators had found a passkey in McDaniel’s apartment.

“The detective told me ... (McDaniel) had a master key to all these apartments,” Spencer said. “That was shocking.”

Spencer, 66, said the detective even tried the key in her door’s lock -- and it opened.

She said she then asked the detective, “I wonder how he got a master key?”

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/14/163...om-apartment.html#disqus_thread#ixzz1SHOkqVah

Thanks for clearing this up for me Sandstorm. The article this morning confused me, as I had earlier thought the key had been found by PD, as is the case.

 

[Sandstorm]

Welcome to WS Agent Frank Lundy,
For your evaluation, please check out the size of the frig that was removed by LE from the vacated apartment located below Lauren's apt.

This is not the college dorm 'mini-fridge':

http://www.macon.com/2011/06/30/1615815_a1630658/body-found-at-downtown-macon-apartments.html

and

http://www.macon.com/2011/06/30/1615815_a1630659/body-found-at-downtown-macon-apartments.html

 

[angelanalyzes]

Thank you angelanalyzes for this info. This crime is horrific enough without the insertion of "held and tortured." I, too, thought it would be too dangerous for the perp to hold her in those apartments due to noise or any other complication that could pop up.
Is your theory that she was killed that Sat night?

I do think so, sometime Saturday night she was silenced. If he had kept her alive for days he wouldn't have had the time to do such a good clean up job after the killing and dismemberment.

 

[SouthernKate]

The point I am attempting to clarify is who is in which apartment.
If you are standing in the parking lot of Barristers Hall Apt and looking towards the apartments:

upstairs left - lauren
upstairs right - McD
downstairs left - empty now, frig was removed, student was in process of moving out
downstairs right - Ms Spencer and son, Neil

This configuration is important when we try to understand noise, crime scene, etc.

http://www.macon.com/2011/06/30/1615815_a1630625/body-found-at-downtown-macon-apartments.html

So, I found a different pic. The stairs come down the middle, then divide out left and right. Looks like the detective is placing the do not enter sign on the bottom left door. So LG's would be top left.

Sidenote: if I were the Spencer's, I would be looking for a new place to live. It's got to be creepy when you are the only apt. left in your building that isn't a potential crime scene.

 

[Knox]

southern_comfort

The links aren't working for me, but from what you've snipped there, I don't see a conflict. "one floor below" ≠ "directly below". It just means that NS lives one floor below LG (and SD, her next door neighbor).

Then we have seen other reports that narrow it down to a specific unit below SD.

I'm not concerned with which apartment the reporter is referring to. We already know who lives in which apartment. Media mixes things up all the time. The Fox news station calls Boni Bush both the co-owner and landlord of Barristers, she isn't both to my knowledge.

In linking the stories I was answering Destini's question about searches of apartments other than the four in Lauren's grouping.

I quoted the blurp from NS because it was the first time I saw his name.

 

[AgentFrankLundy]

Thanks Sandstorm, had not seen picture of Fridge. Picture was published July 13, so I assume this was removed this week after they got the search warrant Monday. You can tell its been dusted for prints too . If McD's prints are on it , I guess he's our boy . Maybe he snapped , or is schizophrenic.

 

[Knox]

New to all this but have been following all with great interest as this appears to be a serial killer, but perhaps not. I think the text message Lauren allegedly sent was not Lauren. If she thought someone had been trying to break in, why not call police, why not call period, instead of text a guy in Atlanta? And lots of discussion regarding where the body (torso) was when found . Could very well be that the Macon reporter does not have his facts correct in his reporting and there is no discrepancy between what some of us think , that it was left to the other side of the building instead of in a trash can.
As far as SM goes, makes a lot of sense that LG was "forbidden fruit" to a lonely socially awkward guy ( looks like a gamer, has lots of tattoos and wears chain mail) , but he also doesn't seem the type that could carry this out and else virtually no evidence of it . Some have theorized there is a ton of evidence and MPD is just dotting all their Is and Crossing all their Ts to make sure we don't have another Casey Anthony trial on our hands . I am not so sure. The Macon paper reported the Forenscis would be in by this past Thursday. Did they really "not come back yet" as reported in this morning's paper or was there just nothing there that nails SM and they dont want to let him go ? After all, he looks sketchy , is weird . Not sure he could dismember LG though. Was power in Apt 1 on or off. Why did coroner say when body was discovered she could not have been dead for long ? Lends credence to off site captivity , torture, and perhaps cannibalism necrophilia as has been suggested by some . Lots of hunting camps and property in neighboring counties . Or perhaps put in fridge .I doubt torso would fit in fridge very easily So many questions , so very few answers .

Welcome to WS AgentFrankLundy!

Just to clarify, it was not a text message that Lauren sent, it was an email.

McD Has tattoos? Can I ask where you know this from?

 

[ThinMan]

http://www.macon.com/2011/06/30/1615815_a1630658/body-found-at-downtown-macon-apartments.html

Here is a link to the photo gallery on Macon.com. I hope it links directly to the pic I want, and not the entire gallery. If not, it's about the 6th or 7th pic after clicking "next" through the gallery.

It shows them moving the refrigerator out of the apartment below LG's. If you notice, the stairs are coming down beside it from the right side of the building. This would indicate that, facing the building, LG would be on top right and McDaniel's apt. would be on the top left.

No -- LG's is top left; SMD is top right. The floral wreath in the picture has been placed on the balcony in front of LG's door. While there are certainly people concerned about SMD, none of them would place a wreath in front of his door.

Sandstorm had it right in his/her original post: "If you are standing in the parking lot of Barristers Hall Apt and looking towards the apartments:

upstairs left - lauren
upstairs right - McD
downstairs left - empty now, frig was removed, student was in process of moving out
downstairs right - Ms Spencer and son, Neil"

 

[Darcyline]

I am not sure we have "no evidence yet"-just no evidence that the public knows yet. IN certain cases I have seen where there is tons upon tons of evidence the public gets less because it is needed less. Literally nothing or very little is revealed until the actual trial. I feel like cases where we do get tons of evidence right away are ones where LE is forced to give it because the person is missing or murderer completely unknown. I confidently feel that if SM is guilty or innocent it will be known. I just do not believe someone could abduct, kill, dismember, and store parts of a body without leaving any evidence anywhere. I feel like it will be conclusive once police start revealing results.
Of course, it gets trickier if it is not SM and the person may be a random stranger whose DNA is not on file and isn't really known to anyone at the apartment complex. If that is what the evidence points to then this case will take an even scarier turn.

 

[Sandstorm]

Thanks Sandstorm, had not seen picture of Fridge. Picture was published July 13, so I assume this was removed this week after they got the search warrant Monday. You can tell its been dusted for prints too . If McD's prints are on it , I guess he's our boy . Maybe he snapped , or is schizophrenic.

Correct, the fridge was removed recently, Wed, July 13, and the night before, Tues, July 12, McD's apartment was searched again.


McD's apt searched second time Tues, July 12
After a new tip yesterday, a second search warrant was executed last night (Tuesday, July 12), at the apartment of burglary suspect Stephen Mark McDaniel, Lauren’s neighbor and classmate.

http://www.*********.com/contributed-news/9669757-july-13-update-in-lauren-giddings-homcide-case

Fridge removed, Wed, July 13
Late Wednesday afternoon, investigators removed a refrigerator from the ground-floor apartment next door to Spencer’s for further forensics testing. That apartment, No. 1, is directly below Giddings’, and police have now sealed it.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/14/1630766/refrigerator-removed-from-apartment.html#ixzz1SHytwbny