GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 7

[~SuperSleuth~]

The Telegraph has also learned that authorities found what resembled fingernail scratches on McDaniel, two sources familiar with the murder investigation say. Police found the marks on McDaniel’s torso when he was booked into the Bibb County jail on burglary charges.

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/05/1655484/warrant-mcdaniel-claimed-he-could.html

I'd like to know if mama has asked to see these, and what excuse SM would give her for them?

 

[Destini]

I was told by a tipster before the refrigerator was ever removed that SOMETHING was found in that downstairs unit. Then the unit was removed a day or two later. I feel that source is reliable, as they had information beforehand, before anyone was even talking about it. I believe something was found in that refrigerator,
As Colonel Mustard said, they didn't remove it on a whim. Something lead them there specifically. They aren't interested in the former tenant as a potential perp, so that points strongly in the direction of him having a really strong alibi considering they removed his refrigerator but didn't name him a POI or suspect!
Think about that.
Also, I think if the tenant had in fact returned to the apartment during the time before the body was discovered, that would be highly newsworthy, as it would be very disturbing for the tenant and reporters/investigators would have a million questions for them in terms of if they noticed an odor or if it looked like anyone had been going in there, etc.

Maybe I'm just really naive, but the problem I have with a really strong alibi is that they don't know when she died. Suppose a person has a good strong alibi for Saturday night, but she was killed after leaving her apartment early Sunday morning?? Not speaking about just the downstairs neighbor but anybody.

 

[PsychoMom]

I'll be sooo glad when the FBI/GBI forensics come back because this fence I'm sitting on is getting uncomfortable.

I want to know if there's a direct link to McD or not. I may get boo'ed & hiss'ed for saying it, but with the way things stand right now I'm glad his family is hiring the PI. I don't blame them.

I'm right there with you. I'm not willing to jump in on the firing squad until I know. The information we are getting does not look good, but a lot of it has been superficial stuff. We are not hearing they have him nailed to the wall. We are not hearing that DNA points directly to him. We are not hearing they have a rock solid case. We are not hearing they found anything of substance connecting him to this crime. I know in a zillion other cases, we hear a lot more than this if they know they have their guy. I know they may not reveal everything, but they reveal a lot more than this.

And the lack of information has me worrying. I want it to be McD. It would be great to know they locked up this sick *advertiser censored* right away. But, I have this nagging fear they didn't. They found the weird guy next door who was just stupid enough to run his mouth (he obviously gets that from his mother) and decided he looked like he could do this kind of thing. And then began trying to make the dots connect to him.

Even on here, everyone is guessing he did this or that, or he thinks this or that, or he loved her, or he hated her, or whatever. It is still based on what people are coming up with in their minds with no substance to it. Even the stupid hacksaw, which may or may not be the same one that matches the packaging in his apartment, has people drawing conclusions and calling them truths. We do not know if this packaging was freshly tossed on the table, or if it was used for some benign purpose, such as blocking a vent or balancing a wobbly table. That information would help clear up some things.

I know we won't hear everything, but we shouldn't make up everything either.

 

[Knox]

But how do we know there's a lack of DNA?

That's why I said I'd better quit while I'm ahead, we don't.

 

[bessie]

I know this question is of a delicate nature. Would they be able to tell anything from the torso about rigor mortis or livor mortis? I know they are both used to determine time of death in some cases and position of the body right after death.

Rigor mortis lasts up to 36 hours, I believe. So if rigor were present, it would mean she died a fairly short time before the remains were discovered. I don't believe the dismemberment would have an affect, but I'm not certain.

Livor mortis can continue to develop for up to 10-12 hours after death, and it doesn't disappear. If the torso showed signs of livor mortis discoloration, a medical examiner might be able to deduce whether the body rested in a certain position for a number of hours, and even whether or not it was clothed.

 

[bessie]

Maybe I'm just really naive, but the problem I have with a really strong alibi is that they don't know when she died. Suppose a person has a good strong alibi for Saturday night, but she was killed after leaving her apartment early Sunday morning?? Not speaking about just the downstairs neighbor but anybody.

Her cell phone and computer activity stopped abruptly around 10:30 p.m. even though she had been using both throughout the evening. It's a pretty strong indicator of when the crime occurred.

 

[Destini]

Her cell phone and computer activity stopped abruptly around 10:30 p.m. even though she had been using both throughout the evening. It's a pretty strong indicator of when the crime occurred.

True, it could be, but she also could have just fallen asleep. She'd been out the night before & been sunbathing apparently that afternoon. Maybe she was just tired. Maybe she slept all night, got up at 5:30 or 6:00 & went for a run, didn't use the computer or the phone, & someone broke into her apartment & was laying in wait. Just a thought.

 

[Darcyline]

I also think it is possible that he knew that the downstairs tenants would be gone for awhile. I have moved a lot and there were occasions where I left some stuff behind for days or weeks while I was elsewhere for various reasons. Neighbors would possibly know about that. Doesn't seem that weird to me.

I also think that LE has evidence we don't know about. I don't think they arrested him just because of hacksaw packaging and because he is weird. They have no obligation to spell out their case to us, unfortunately. I have seen a lot of references in general about how flimsy the case is but we really don't know whether it is or not yet. I know we would all love that!

 

[Backwoods]

Just a few thoughts along the refrigeration line of evidence:

First, kind of a poll -- never been sure, are most of you thinking refrigeration or freezing? (I kind of figure the freezing might not be possible because of space -- in a refrigerator I mean -- but not sure.)

Second: Think PsychoMom mentioned maybe the moving-out tenant might have some soft drinks, etc., still in the fridge -- and heck, for all we know, might have still had it stocked. (I'd sure probably put cleaning out the fridge for one of the last chores.) If perp used downstairs fridge, wonder if items had to be moved out to accommodate -- and would that have left some clues, in itself? On the other hand, if fridge was already cleaned out by moving tenant, I mean, actually cleaned, wiped down (which could have all been part of getting a deposit back or something similar), guess that would have left a pretty "clean slate" for evidence from the crime to show up on, maybe?

Finally: Fairly early on in the case, a friend of mine who works at a Macon motel not particularly close to the apartments told me that LE came by, asking the motel folks to be on alert for any unusual odors, etc. Now I know that there was a similar appeal to the general public about the same time -- but I've always wondered if, maybe at least early on, LE was looking at motels as a possible murder/dismemberment/storage scene?

 

[bessie]

I was told by a tipster before the refrigerator was ever removed that SOMETHING was found in that downstairs unit. Then the unit was removed a day or two later. I feel that source is reliable, as they had information beforehand, before anyone was even talking about it. I believe something was found in that refrigerator,
As Colonel Mustard said, they didn't remove it on a whim. Something lead them there specifically. They aren't interested in the former tenant as a potential perp, so that points strongly in the direction of him having a really strong alibi considering they removed his refrigerator but didn't name him a POI or suspect!
Think about that.
Also, I think if the tenant had in fact returned to the apartment during the time before the body was discovered, that would be highly newsworthy, as it would be very disturbing for the tenant and reporters/investigators would have a million questions for them in terms of if they noticed an odor or if it looked like anyone had been going in there, etc.

Exactly, and it goes back to what I said about McD and his mother/lawyer not pointing a finger at him. The refrigerator would still be sitting in the apartment if preliminary tests had not revealed something of interest that warranted its removal. Yet the tenant is allowed to walk away. McD doesn't suspect him, nor his mother or lawyer. Why not? For that matter, if he were the perp, it's rather unlikely he'd return to the apartment for a final cleanout.

 

[Givsmetheshivers]

A good point... and it doesn't necessarily have to involve any adrenaline or "rush".
Just a intense interest in what you're doing.
Even the psychological issues/disorders he may have could account for this ability.
Unfortunately, I think I may suffer from some of the same issues SM does.
I frequently stay awake longer than I should due to being "zoned in" on what I'm working on,
and this was even worse when I was his age. I think my record was 56 hours

Remind me not to live next door to you.

 

[PsychoMom]

Just a few thoughts along the refrigeration line of evidence:

First, kind of a poll -- never been sure, are most of you thinking refrigeration or freezing? (I kind of figure the freezing might not be possible because of space -- in a refrigerator I mean -- but not sure.)

Second: Think PsychoMom mentioned maybe the moving-out tenant might have some soft drinks, etc., still in the fridge -- and heck, for all we know, might have still had it stocked. (I'd sure probably put cleaning out the fridge for one of the last chores.) If perp used downstairs fridge, wonder if items had to be moved out to accommodate -- and would that have left some clues, in itself? On the other hand, if fridge was already cleaned out by moving tenant, I mean, actually cleaned, wiped down (which could have all been part of getting a deposit back or something similar), guess that would have left a pretty "clean slate" for evidence from the crime to show up on, maybe?

Finally: Fairly early on in the case, a friend of mine who works at a Macon motel not particularly close to the apartments told me that LE came by, asking the motel folks to be on alert for any unusual odors, etc. Now I know that there was a similar appeal to the general public about the same time -- but I've always wondered if, maybe at least early on, LE was looking at motels as a possible murder/dismemberment/storage scene?

Anyone who has driven through Macon knows there are tons of empty buildings and businesses. Some may have electricity still running to them. Some of the others may even still have refrigeration running if they haven't been closed all that long. I noticed that when we were down there recently. I wondered if any of those areas may have been utilized in this crime. Get LG off the property ASAP and do whatever. Now, if McD did this and chose to bring the torso back for whatever reason, then there could be other items in these empty buildings. It also could open the door for another person to be involved, whether alone or in conjunction with McD. Wouldn't be the first time two perps were involved in a vicious crime.

Opening up to other possibilities. Got to rule them out or they are still in.

 

[pearl]

I'm right there with you. I'm not willing to jump in on the firing squad until I know. The information we are getting does not look good, but a lot of it has been superficial stuff. We are not hearing they have him nailed to the wall. We are not hearing that DNA points directly to him. We are not hearing they have a rock solid case. We are not hearing they found anything of substance connecting him to this crime. I know in a zillion other cases, we hear a lot more than this if they know they have their guy. I know they may not reveal everything, but they reveal a lot more than this.
And the lack of information has me worrying. I want it to be McD. It would be great to know they locked up this sick *advertiser censored* right away. But, I have this nagging fear they didn't. They found the weird guy next door who was just stupid enough to run his mouth (he obviously gets that from his mother) and decided he looked like he could do this kind of thing. And then began trying to make the dots connect to him.

I am not trying to be argumentive here. The following is what I think based on what I have read. I think the arrest warrant leads the DNA on the hacksaw (discussed a lot already) directly to SM. The hacksaw has DNA on it. The DNA is Lauren's so therefore it was used for some reason on Lauren. The arrest warrant is issued against SM, not the MM, not anyone else but him. If the evidence leads to another person, LE will dismiss charges against SM and then file charges against that person. LE has had enough time to get plenty more results back from the FBI and GBI. If these results are pointing at SM, he will remain charged with this crime. He is still charged with this crime so the evidence must be pointing to him. Do I know this for a fact? No, I do not and will quickly acknowledge if I am proved wrong. I don't think Macon LE wants to put itself in danger of being sued for violating SM's civil rights by keeping him charged with murder and in jail when the evidence points away from him and to someone else.

 

[Knox]

Just a few thoughts along the refrigeration line of evidence:

First, kind of a poll -- never been sure, are most of you thinking refrigeration or freezing? (I kind of figure the freezing might not be possible because of space -- in a refrigerator I mean -- but not sure.)

Second: Think PsychoMom mentioned maybe the moving-out tenant might have some soft drinks, etc., still in the fridge -- and heck, for all we know, might have still had it stocked. (I'd sure probably put cleaning out the fridge for one of the last chores.) If perp used downstairs fridge, wonder if items had to be moved out to accommodate -- and would that have left some clues, in itself? On the other hand, if fridge was already cleaned out by moving tenant, I mean, actually cleaned, wiped down (which could have all been part of getting a deposit back or something similar), guess that would have left a pretty "clean slate" for evidence from the crime to show up on, maybe?

Finally: Fairly early on in the case, a friend of mine who works at a Macon motel not particularly close to the apartments told me that LE came by, asking the motel folks to be on alert for any unusual odors, etc. Now I know that there was a similar appeal to the general public about the same time -- but I've always wondered if, maybe at least early on, LE was looking at motels as a possible murder/dismemberment/storage scene?

Remove the shelving.

College student, eats out a lot, no food.

Good point, they may have looked at that early on.

 

[Sandstorm]

Maybe I'm just really naive, but the problem I have with a really strong alibi is that they don't know when she died. Suppose a person has a good strong alibi for Saturday night, but she was killed after leaving her apartment early Sunday morning?? Not speaking about just the downstairs neighbor but anybody.

My emphasis in bold.
We do not know what the FBI crime lab has determined as per time of death. They will be able to provide an estimated time of death which will be part of the reconstruction scenario of the crime which the prosecution will present at the trial. IMO

 

[Backwoods]

True, it could be, but she also could have just fallen asleep. She'd been out the night before & been sunbathing apparently that afternoon. Maybe she was just tired. Maybe she slept all night, got up at 5:30 or 6:00 & went for a run, didn't use the computer or the phone, & someone broke into her apartment & was laying in wait. Just a thought.

bolding above is mine

And I think a good one -- think I'll think on that one for awhile!

 

[Givsmetheshivers]

Possibly because he knew about the email re: hoodlums trying to break in that Thursday night, and talked a helluva lot about it in the interview. You'd think he might have then said, "I didn't hear anyone trying to break in that night, but DD was there, he was doing some work or something, maybe that's what she heard."

I agree, it's not dispositive. It's completely possible that someone innocent would not initially recall a weird but innocuous encounter that happened on a relevant date. On it's own, it's not much, but combined with everything else, it's one more thing that makes his story completely implausible.

Maybe someone that knew all of the Law Students can answer this question. When everyone was going into Lauren's looking at the Boyfriend in Atlanta, was DD there? If here wasn't there did Stephen mention to call him to join the search party, because he was the one standing on her balcony the night before.

 

[Backwoods]

Maybe someone that knew all of the Law Students can answer this question. When everyone was going into Lauren's looking at the Boyfriend in Atlanta, was DD there? If here wasn't there did Stephen mention to call him, because he was the one standing on her balcony the night before.

You're meaning when they were in the apartment looking at the email?

Well, I'm not someone who knows all (or any, for that matter) of the law students, but I'm pretty certain that in the infamous interview, SM doesn't mention his name as being one of the friends who were there.

 

[Givsmetheshivers]

How do we know so much about SM's loans?

Some of us have been to Mercer.
Others have been to Law School
and then some have been to MERCER LAW SCHOOL. :whip:

 

[bessie]

True, it could be, but she also could have just fallen asleep. She'd been out the night before & been sunbathing apparently that afternoon. Maybe she was just tired. Maybe she slept all night, got up at 5:30 or 6:00 & went for a run, didn't use the computer or the phone, & someone broke into her apartment & was laying in wait. Just a thought.

Sure, it's possible, but unusual for Lauren based on her history according to friends and family. Nevertheless, it's merely a starting point. No one would be ruled out just because he had an alibi for Saturday night.

I also think it is possible that he knew that the downstairs tenants would be gone for awhile. I have moved a lot and there were occasions where I left some stuff behind for days or weeks while I was elsewhere for various reasons. Neighbors would possibly know about that. Doesn't seem that weird to me.

I also think that LE has evidence we don't know about. I don't think they arrested him just because of hacksaw packaging and because he is weird. They have no obligation to spell out their case to us, unfortunately. I have seen a lot of references in general about how flimsy the case is but we really don't know whether it is or not yet. I know we would all love that!

I agree. The hacksaw and the other allegations in the arrest warrant merely suffice as probable cause to bring charges. No way they would play their trump this early in the game.

Anyone who has driven through Macon knows there are tons of empty buildings and businesses. Some may have electricity still running to them. Some of the others may even still have refrigeration running if they haven't been closed all that long. I noticed that when we were down there recently. I wondered if any of those areas may have been utilized in this crime. Get LG off the property ASAP and do whatever. Now, if McD did this and chose to bring the torso back for whatever reason, then there could be other items in these empty buildings. It also could open the door for another person to be involved, whether alone or in conjunction with McD. Wouldn't be the first time two perps were involved in a vicious crime.

Opening up to other possibilities. Got to rule them out or they are still in.

Show me one fact to support any of that, and I'll consider it.