CONVICTION OVERTURNED GA - Ross Harris Trial Appeal, hot car death of son, Cooper

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MsMarple said:
I agree with the GA Supreme Court ruling and I personally believe Ross stands a good chance of being convicted again. MOO.
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In the absence of a plea agreement, I can't see them not re-trying him, but it will be interesting to see if they shoot for malice murder this time. If they do, I think they run a fairly high the risk of him getting off now that the prejudicial sex stuff/crimes can't be introduced. On the other hand, involuntary manslaughter as defined in Georgia would be a slam dunk.
 
HarmonyE. said:
In the absence of a plea agreement, I can't see them not re-trying him, but it will be interesting to see if they shoot for malice murder this time. If they do, I think they run a fairly high the risk of him getting off now that the prejudicial sex stuff/crimes can't be introduced. On the other hand, involuntary manslaughter as defined in Georgia would be a slam dunk.
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Yeah, good point: I've been wondering if the DA can re-try Ross on a different, lesser charge than malice murder. I've been searching for an answer and the most I can find is that a plea deal can be instituted for a lesser charge *during* a re-trial. Nothing about filing lesser charges in a re-trial.

IOW can the DA charge Ross with something like aggravated child abuse/endangerment or manslaughter or does it have to be malice murder? Anyone know?

In any event I'm not convinced that eliminating the evidence regarding Ross' sex crimes against minors in a re-trial would cause a jury to find him not guilty of murdering his son. Evidence in the first trial - IMO - was compelling even without the sex crimes.
 
@HarmonyE. You make a lot of compelling points! I didn't read the GSC opinion but I feel like I got the gist of it from your comments here. I didn't watch the trial when it was live. I watched it years later and it's now been 2-3 years since I watched it. And yet, when I heard that his conviction may be overturned due to the prejudicial elements, it didn't surprise me. I think prosecutors are human and I think they were overwhelmed/disgusted by RH's grossness as a man/husband. I think they believed wholeheartedly it was purposeful and were determined to punish him. I can't say I feel too bad for RH that he was possibly unjustly convicted of murder. I also found it hard to believe that he could forget Cooper was in the car in between the short drive from the Chick-fil-A and that turn towards the day care vs. his office! It's hard for me to believe that Cooper fell asleep in that 1 minute time frame or that he didn't make any noise all the way to the office. He was the one that primarily dropped off Cooper to day care every morning. It was an established routine. He had just had him in his arms.

In regards to him going to the car to drop off the lightbulb, that evidence was so murky. But I also have to agree with the folks arguing that there's no way he didn't smell anything once he got in the car at the end of the day. But then I also agree somewhat with the notion that prosecutors knew that there wasn't enough to convict without showing he was a despicable person and our laws say you can't do that. That's the bottom line!
 
Allabouttrial said:
Do you mean this because you think he did murder Cooper?
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I'm not sure. But I know he's morally responsible. Whether it's negligence or murder. I just feel like how could he forget Cooper was there within 1 MINUTE of putting him in the car!!? I believe it was proven that he would have seen the back of the seat as he's getting out of the car - which would've served as a reminder. I realize not being sure if it's murder is reasonable doubt and that means he's not guilty of what he was convicted of and he should get a retrial. Like I said in my earlier comment, I'm not surprised his conviction was overturned because I do feel that the prosecutors went overboard in proving he was a reprehensible person. But I can't muster any sympathy for him either. The way both husband and wife reacted afterwards in the interrogation room also left a bad taste in my mouth.
 
Weki said:
I also found it hard to believe that he could forget Cooper was in the car in between the short drive from the Chick-fil-A and that turn towards the day care vs. his office!
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But it's worth noting that Harris did not normally take Cooper to Chick Fil A. We learned at trial that he usually dropped Cooper off at daycare before he went to Chick Fil A. A few times he did - there was testimony from a daycare employee that he once picked up food for some of the employees - but the majority of the time he didn't have Cooper with him when he pulled out of the restaurant and then went straight on to work.

In addition to being an overall pig (although maybe I'm missing something - he had a lot of women communicating with him regularly and seemingly lots of friends) he seemed to be very lazy and easily distracted. His boss couldn't get him to finish projects, he didn't show up for regular morning meetings, and he clearly wasn't bothering to put in a full day's work on the day Cooper died.

Ironically though, his distractions and obsession with sexting multiple people may be his best defense in a new trial. If he didn't normally have Cooper with him when he pulled out and starting thinking immediately about his next sext, if I were his attorney, I'd argue he went straight to automatic pilot, thinking he'd dropped Cooper off as usual. A tough needle to thread, but I do think it's a plausible scenario and a solid psychiatrist with experience in memory gaps would be needed as an expert to make the point.

I'm not arguing Harris is innocent, only that he did not get a fair trial. And I agree with you, his selfish behavior led to Cooper's death. But I'm not sure the prosecution can actually prove that Harris set out to murder his son that day, and without the overwhelming negative character testimony, involuntary manslaughter may be a better bet.
 
HarmonyE. said:
But it's worth noting that Harris did not normally take Cooper to Chick Fil A. We learned at trial that he usually dropped Cooper off at daycare before he went to Chick Fil A. A few times he did - there was testimony from a daycare employee that he once picked up food for some of the employees - but the majority of the time he didn't have Cooper with him when he pulled out of the restaurant and then went straight on to work.

In addition to being an overall pig (although maybe I'm missing something - he had a lot of women communicating with him regularly and seemingly lots of friends) he seemed to be very lazy and easily distracted. His boss couldn't get him to finish projects, he didn't show up for regular morning meetings, and he clearly wasn't bothering to put in a full day's work on the day Cooper died.

Ironically though, his distractions and obsession with sexting multiple people may be his best defense in a new trial. If he didn't normally have Cooper with him when he pulled out and starting thinking immediately about his next sext, if I were his attorney, I'd argue he went straight to automatic pilot, thinking he'd dropped Cooper off as usual. A tough needle to thread, but I do think it's a plausible scenario and a solid psychiatrist with experience in memory gaps would be needed as an expert to make the point.

I'm not arguing Harris is innocent, only that he did not get a fair trial. And I agree with you, his selfish behavior led to Cooper's death. But I'm not sure the prosecution can actually prove that Harris set out to murder his son that day, and without the overwhelming negative character testimony, involuntary manslaughter may be a better bet.
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Having read about several similar cases, I have noticed some patterns and even enumerated them here, but deleted because this article summarizes it all better.

www.nbcnews.com

What causes parents to forget children in hot cars?

It seems like an unthinkable act — a parent forgetting a child in a hot car. But parents and experts alike warn it's more common than most people imagine.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Notwithstanding that RH may not be the finest citizen, perhaps with too many cases like this (37 per year in the US, on average), most of the parents might be well-meaning, but suffer from executive dysfunction, and the Supreme Court of GA did not want to create a precedent?

P.S. as I am reading about cases, RH's response to CH's death was unusual. But the same year, another dad who left the kid in a hot car, later took his own life. I read that several psychological centers are studying "forgotten baby syndrome", that soon we shall have cars not letting it happen. Of the advices to prevent it, I liked most putting one's case, documents or purse in the car on the back seat, next to the baby/kid.
 
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meanmaryjean said:
The most damning piece of evidence to me is him returning to the car at lunchtime, opening the door and closing it again.
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The defense argues he was dropped off nearby so he could throw his just purchased package into the car rather than bring it into the office. The video itself doesn't appear to be damning as he never looks into the car or even below the roof line. And Harris surely knew there were video cameras in the lot, so if he is guilty of intentionally leaving Cooper there, why return at that point at all? Especially without even glancing into the vehicle to check Cooper's status? Seems a pointless risk.
 
meanmaryjean said:
The most damning piece of evidence to me is him returning to the car at lunchtime, opening the door and closing it again.
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I agree. This and him not noticing immediately when he got in the car after work. I live in the same general area, and if leave so much as a half cup of coffee or a banana in my car during work, I can both smell and feel the difference in the air of the hot car.

I don't see many similarities between this case and accidental hot car deaths. No hectic morning, no thinking someone else got the baby out, no unusual routine, the baby was awake and active just minutes before, the car seat was easily visible, and, most damning to me, RH had no moment of clarity or panic - no trigger throughout the entire day - that he had "forgotten". There were so many prompts that could/should have jogged his memory, i.e., texting about Cooper that morning, seeing his car at lunch (not to mention going to the car and opening the door), asking LH about Cooper and daycare, driving off at the end of the day. I simply can't believe he had no occassion throughout the day to remember and realize he no recall of dropping Cooper off.

I wonder if he planned to "find" Cooper at lunch, but then decided against having to pull off that scene in front of people who knew him well. Maybe he thought he had a better chance of convincing an audience of strangers.

That said, everyone deserves a fair trial and I hope he gets one. I also hope the end result is the same.
 
GeorgiaRai said:
I agree. This and him not noticing immediately when he got in the car after work. I live in the same general area, and if leave so much as a half cup of coffee or a banana in my car during work, I can both smell and feel the difference in the air of the hot car.

I don't see many similarities between this case and accidental hot car deaths. No hectic morning, no thinking someone else got the baby out, no unusual routine, the baby was awake and active just minutes before, the car seat was easily visible, and, most damning to me, RH had no moment of clarity or panic - no trigger throughout the entire day - that he had "forgotten". There were so many prompts that could/should have jogged his memory, i.e., texting about Cooper that morning, seeing his car at lunch (not to mention going to the car and opening the door), asking LH about Cooper and daycare, driving off at the end of the day. I simply can't believe he had no occassion throughout the day to remember and realize he no recall of dropping Cooper off.

I wonder if he planned to "find" Cooper at lunch, but then decided against having to pull off that scene in front of people who knew him well. Maybe he thought he had a better chance of convincing an audience of strangers.

That said, everyone deserves a fair trial and I hope he gets one. I also hope the end result is the same.
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Re: bolded, I have wondered about this as well. Your explanation is very possible, IMO.
 
Yeah, I remember watching the video of Ross throwing the bag of lightbulbs into the car. It sparked much conversation here.

His friends took off before he reached the car so a potential audience was gone. The defense pointed out that he never looked into the car but rather he stood very straight with his head looking over the car roof as he opened the door and tossed the bag in then closed the door without ever looking inside.

Who does that? Why, it's almost as if Ross was purposely avoiding glancing into the car. And what a bizarre way to handle a bag of lightbulbs. Maybe he didn't care about breaking any, maybe he was just checking to see if Cooper was crying. MOO.

What makes me so angry at Ross is similar to what @GeorgiaRai said. IMO Ross' "fatal distraction" was his preoccupation with texting women that morning and nothing more. Given the results of that day IMO at the very least it's child endangerment resulting in death. Parents have a moral and legal responsibility to keep their children safe and that means being mindful of them at all times. MOO.

 
GeorgiaRai said:
I agree. This and him not noticing immediately when he got in the car after work. I live in the same general area, and if leave so much as a half cup of coffee or a banana in my car during work, I can both smell and feel the difference in the air of the hot car.

I don't see many similarities between this case and accidental hot car deaths. No hectic morning, no thinking someone else got the baby out, no unusual routine, the baby was awake and active just minutes before, the car seat was easily visible, and, most damning to me, RH had no moment of clarity or panic - no trigger throughout the entire day - that he had "forgotten". There were so many prompts that could/should have jogged his memory, i.e., texting about Cooper that morning, seeing his car at lunch (not to mention going to the car and opening the door), asking LH about Cooper and daycare, driving off at the end of the day. I simply can't believe he had no occassion throughout the day to remember and realize he no recall of dropping Cooper off.

I wonder if he planned to "find" Cooper at lunch, but then decided against having to pull off that scene in front of people who knew him well. Maybe he thought he had a better chance of convincing an audience of strangers.

That said, everyone deserves a fair trial and I hope he gets one. I also hope the end result is the same.
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all of this but in particular the BBM. I will always believe this was not an accident. I hope he is convicted once again.
 
GeorgiaRai said:
I agree. This and him not noticing immediately when he got in the car after work. I live in the same general area, and if leave so much as a half cup of coffee or a banana in my car during work, I can both smell and feel the difference in the air of the hot car.

I don't see many similarities between this case and accidental hot car deaths. No hectic morning, no thinking someone else got the baby out, no unusual routine, the baby was awake and active just minutes before, the car seat was easily visible, and, most damning to me, RH had no moment of clarity or panic - no trigger throughout the entire day - that he had "forgotten". There were so many prompts that could/should have jogged his memory, i.e., texting about Cooper that morning, seeing his car at lunch (not to mention going to the car and opening the door), asking LH about Cooper and daycare, driving off at the end of the day. I simply can't believe he had no occassion throughout the day to remember and realize he no recall of dropping Cooper off.

I wonder if he planned to "find" Cooper at lunch, but then decided against having to pull off that scene in front of people who knew him well. Maybe he thought he had a better chance of convincing an audience of strangers.

That said, everyone deserves a fair trial and I hope he gets one. I also hope the end result is the same.
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Well, of course premeditation is possible. After Chris Watts, every case of a "lousy husband, good father" raises serious questions, tbh.

However, another version, "distractibility, and that day got distracted by own sexting", is not impossible. That still leaves him responsible for everything else, but removes premeditation. I guess we shall never know, either way.

Interestingly, the statistics of "forgotten babies" did not change since 1994. I just read that the first year when the numbers went down was 2020, the COVID year, the fewer-miles-per-day-year. So I assume that since this case did not change the numbers for 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 etc., when the case became known,...and only less time spent in cars changed it, then, maybe, this guy, still, belongs to the bigger statistics? It sounds horrible, "distracted by own sexting to minors and forgot his son in a hot car". But, maybe not "intentionally"?

(Myself, 60 unintentionally/40 premeditated). Not sure. Here is the article with the data year by year. It is from attorneys, but the data is the same everywhere. Very sad to read.

From other sources "National Safety Council reported 24 deaths in 2020, but in 2018 and 2019, the number reported was 58."


www.carlsonattorneys.com

Forgotten Baby Syndrome: What is it and How to Avoid it

While forgotten baby syndrome can occur any time of year, it is particularly deadly from April to September every year. On a warm spring or summer day, a
www.carlsonattorneys.com www.carlsonattorneys.com
 
I just bought a 2020 Subaru Crosstrek yesterday. It has a safety feature that if you have opened either of the back doors before driving- when you turn off the engine you get an audible tone AND a message on the dash "Remember to check back seat".
If you have not opened a back door- no message so no message fatigue.
I don't have littles- but what an improvement!
 
DaisyKenny said:
Being a divorced dad isn't the same as being single. He responded to the message "I hate being married with kids..." the morning he left Cooper to die. With Cooper out of his way, he thought he could get divorced and be single again and indulge his addiction. In fact, he said multiple times that Cooper was the only reason he was still married.
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I've read that he has raved about cooper to the women he was cheating on his wife with. one woman testified talking about how much RH has expressed his love and care for cooper. he was a sex addict and a crap person for cheating on his wife but i don't think he intentionally killed his own kid
 
silkyskunk13 said:
I've read that he has raved about cooper to the women he was cheating on his wife with. one woman testified talking about how much RH has expressed his love and care for cooper. he was a sex addict and a crap person for cheating on his wife but i don't think he intentionally killed his own kid
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It's possible he raved about his boy because women LOVE it when a man raves about his bAby. It doesn't necessarily meAn he wanted to continue to be married and raise the child. JMO
 
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