GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[Deleted member 162919]

I still keep going back to their age and the size of the house. I feel they were probably living on the 1st floor mostly and the upstairs was for visitors ( family and friends ) when they visited. I also keeping going over in my mind the rumor this was a hit from up North. What would be the basis for this ? they haven't lived up north in about 30 years . I read a link posted I think of page 16 about SS and the fbi going over video of the lake during May 2nd and 3rd if they have video and a timeline they must have seen the boat the used if they used one. I really think we should start from day 1 and rework this case. i'm going to work on a timeline in the coming months and see what we are missing

 

[nancydrew71]

I don't believe for one second this has anything to do with his previous businesses. I mean something from 20 years ago! Forget it. I don't believe it's retribution for anything either. The place was left pristine, nothing taken. Has anyone checked out their grandkids? One could be on drugs and hurting for money. Also, the place was pristine because it was for sale and needed to be.

 

[Bootsctr]

I'd say the anger for Mr. D came during this time period (1990s) (not from the North) when he acquired the Hardee's restaurants. He was not retired and his sons were apparently working for him?

For most of the 1990s, they lived in a neighborhood along the Chattahoochee River, on the south side of the Cherokee Town & Country Club below Roswell. Before moving to Georgia from the New York area in the late 1980s, Russ Dermond had been an executive for the company that makes Westclox and Seth Thomas clocks. But he didn’t exactly come here to retire; not long after arriving, he acquired a chain of metro-area Hardee’s restaurants. The establishments provided Keith and Bradley, two of the couple’s four children, with jobs in the food service industry.

Real retirement didn’t come until the late 1990s, when Dermond and his wife built their $1 million place on the shores of Lake Oconee. Golf at the Great Waters subdivision was one of the attractions for Russ, who had once played in tournaments at Roswell’s Horseshoe Bend course with Bradley.

http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/

 

[auburnmomof2]

I don't believe for one second this has anything to do with his previous businesses. I mean something from 20 years ago! Forget it. I don't believe it's retribution for anything either. The place was left pristine, nothing taken. Has anyone checked out their grandkids? One could be on drugs and hurting for money. Also, the place was pristine because it was for sale and needed to be.

I didn't think it was for sale until after they were killed. I also think if it were done for drug money they would've stolen cash and valuables. Just my opinion

 

[auburnmomof2]

I'd say the anger for Mr. D came during this time period (1990s) (not from the North) when he acquired the Hardee's restaurants. He was not retired and his sons were apparently working for him?



http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/

Thank you for the recap about them moving south. I'd like to know more about why they moved. Was Atlanta the hot spot to acquire fast food restaurants at that time?

 

[1&2&3]

I don't believe for one second this has anything to do with his previous businesses. I mean something from 20 years ago! Forget it. I don't believe it's retribution for anything either. The place was left pristine, nothing taken. Has anyone checked out their grandkids? One could be on drugs and hurting for money. Also, the place was pristine because it was for sale and needed to be.

This is the first I've heard it was for sale while they were alive. To my understanding, it did not go up for sale until LE released it from the investigation.
Where were they moving? This was their retirement home. Link please that home was for sale at time of murder.

 

[1&2&3]

In the very beginning of this saga, SS thought/felt the Dermonds had let the perp(s) in and it was someone they were familiar with.

From the conversations here lately, the talk is more of the perp walking in unannounced through an unlocked door. Are we changing the story as I don't remember SS saying this, or are we working from a different angle since the couple that found them were able to enter the house through an unlocked door?

 

[nancydrew71]

I'd say the anger for Mr. D came during this time period (1990s) (not from the North) when he acquired the Hardee's restaurants. He was not retired and his sons were apparently working for him?



http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/

Nah! In fact his two sons are moving on, they have two great franchises, First Watch, in a beautiful place, Destin Fl. If there was a problem with that, the sons certainly would have brought that up. They worked with him at the Hardees.

 

[nancydrew71]

I didn't think it was for sale until after they were killed. I also think if it were done for drug money they would've stolen cash and valuables. Just my opinion

I thought it was for sale when they were there! Dancin would know. No if the grandkid wanted money for drugs, he/she also knows they or their parent will inherit all of this home and contents. JMO

 

[Bootsctr]

In the very beginning of this saga, SS thought/felt the Dermonds had let the perp(s) in and it was someone they were familiar with.

From the conversations here lately, the talk is more of the perp walking in unannounced through an unlocked door. Are we changing the story as I don't remember SS saying this, or are we working from a different angle since the couple that found them were able to enter the house through an unlocked door?

No, just thinking, that since Mr. D was not dressed for the day, but Mrs. D was dressed for the day, that she could have let someone into the home. They had RSVP'd for the Derby Party and maybe she had already raised the garage doors in anticipation of leaving later in the day.

Just thinking that if the killer was forensically aware he could have lured them outside where Mrs. D was struck on her head. Mr. D came out to investigate whatever noise he heard from in the home. Killer would have wanted to avoid blood spatter inside the home. There was some blood spatter in the garage as that is where SS said Mr. D's head was removed. He was not alive at that time, but still would have some blood spatter during the process of sawing or cutting.

I don't think the killer wanted to risk blood spatter inside the home, walls, cabinets, flooring, etc. I assume luminol testing did not reveal any blood spatter inside the home.

Neighbors were gone. Very secluded with no neighbors on the opposite side. Killer very likely knew this. May even knew no one would show up looking for them. Knew the daughter and granddaughter were no longer in town too.

The door that was found open was how Mr. and Mrs. D and visitors accessed the home, or through the garage by raising the garage doors and using the interior door to the kitchen. Very convenient to be able to pull the vehicle into the garage with direct access to the kitchen to unload groceries. They spent a lot of time designing this custom home. I'd bet all doors were locked almost all the time except for the main way the D's entered the home and the way visitors entered the home. If you were familiar with the D's you would enter through the covered screen porch, otherwise I bet any deliveries or anyone they needed for repairs etc. would come to the front of the home.

Sorry so long.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I guess now since we know he had GSR on his collar of his T, then possibly shot outside (with the GSR and MR D in his pj's basically, dont think he went target shooting, so im going with gunshot to the head) than it makes sense, before I was thinking bludgeoned or hit inthe head a few times cuold kill him without likely too much blood

but the real mess they left behind was in the garage

Still curious about how it all played out, it was said he'd lounge about in his robe if nothing was pressing for him to do right away, outside of the home....but I think these happen very late friday or very early saturday and I think he may have heard some commotion too but who knows, that's just something in my head

That's what I think too. They left by the back kitchen door - same way they came in. Although I think. . . probably Mrs. D was lured outside too by a noise. Maybe they snuck up on her while she was in the kitchen? I just think they wanted to leave the house in as pristine condition as they found it. Doing the murders outside where water was easily accessible for clean up. I just don't think they were taken at the same time.

They got Mrs. D. She either screamed or put up a fight or something. The noise awoke Mr. D who came out of the bedroom, possibly with a gun and outdoors is where he was ambushed. Just thoughts. I wish they would catch them. SS needs to give some new information.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I agree with you about the kitchen porch and deck design

SS entered thru the FRONT door of the home where the neighbor friends were waiting when he arrived

SS said the neighbor friends had entered thru the kitchen door, that would bmean back deck, garage was closed at the time

THe neighbor friends entered the garage from in front of the cars off teh kitchen

The house is on a sloped lot, basement is below kitchen deck....garage is on ground level in front, not basement

kitchen is on ground level from the front as well as is garage, think of exiting thru door in kitchen to garage, open the garage go right to the screend porch and go left to the front porch and door

I thought at the beginning we had a layout of the rooms, maybe from the tax office?
Anyway, throwing this out, the screened porch looks like it has a door on the backside {lake side) to the upper deck. It looks like the screened porch is next to the kitchen. In the kitchen to the left, there are two doors. One could be to a half bath and the other could go to the screened porch or to a set of three steps to get into the garage. The garage looks to be about three steps lower than the kitchen level. The door in the middle of the kitchen is probably the pantry.

Didn't SS go into the garage through a regular door because the garage doors were down? Was that door he went through from the first floor "basement" or from the kitchen or the screened porch?

How did they get the groceries in the house? I wouldn't think they would tote the groceries outside the garage to get on the screened porch to get to the kitchen? Maybe they had an elevator in the basement?

ETA - I was making this post and got distracted. When I came back and posted, I see you all have covered most of this.
Oh well.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

got me thinking, "WHAT AM I TALKING ABOUT?" hahaha

had to rethink it in my head....the kitchen is on the left side of house as is garage and screened porch

when you enter thru front door youll be in a hallway, you see the DR to the left and straight ahead is den with upper deck, left from there is the kitchen

bedrooms must be to the right of the LR/Den as you enter

and when you exit thru front door, you'd hang right on the sidewalk to the garage and screened porch, where you drive up

you could live on the main level without even going into the basement or needing it, i t looks like

Got to thinking about what hockyguy said about the D's not having house help............i can't keep up my 2200 sq ft by myself alone, but i have 2 dogs and have to help with a handicap individual also so thats like doing twice as much, if you have 2 adults picking up after themselves, would it be that difficult? Maybe if no hobbies? IDK,

I thought at the beginning we had a layout of the rooms, maybe from the tax office?
Anyway, throwing this out, the screened porch looks like it has a door on the backside {lake side) to the upper deck. It looks like the screened porch is next to the kitchen. In the kitchen to the left, there are two doors. One could be to a half bath and the other could go to the screened porch or to a set of three steps to get into the garage. The garage looks to be about three steps lower than the kitchen level. The door in the middle of the kitchen is probably the pantry.

Didn't SS go into the garage through a regular door because the garage doors were down? Was that door he went through from the first floor "basement" or from the kitchen or the screened porch?

How did they get the groceries in the house? I wouldn't think they would tote the groceries outside the garage to get on the screened porch to get to the kitchen? Maybe they had an elevator in the basement?

ETA - I was making this post and got distracted. When I came back and posted, I see you all have covered most of this.
Oh well.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

haha HEY, didnt see this til now, i just commented about the house thing

but im thinking they lived on the main level, ground level with garage since kitchen is there, IDK but they did say Mr D had a well stocked liquor cellar downstairs with all sorts of whiskey, wow, I never would get anything done if i had that! lol

Hockey what I remember about the video is that it was neighbors videos but none showed the lake? the boathouses? the D's house? cant' remember exactly but mostly to that affect

As far as hits up north...i agree with you, that was LONG ago and the D's didnt start the franachises until in sandy springs IIRC..........so did he piss of the clock makers in NJ? I dont think so

I see this as a hit, BUT THE WHO, isnt an angry person, they'd have done that years ago, these folks were retired over 10 years?? I dont know exactly, did they retire when they built this house in 2000, 2004? i know they bought the lot in 99

people with that kind of rage dont wait 10-20 years IMO, of course it WAS well planned out

Timeline would be great, when they left NJ, Mark in NJ getting arrested, SS, mark in SS getting killed, the lien on property, etc

I just think SS should go back more than 6 months in the accounts if he wants to look there, but if nothing showed in 6 months, IS there anything else?

He cuold have loaned someone money without a paper trail for all we know and they killed him to get out of repayment but I dont think this kind of rage would be there

People do get angry like auburnmom mentioned a possible grandchild....but im sure they would have left a mess in teh house and proalby would have taken the cash there and any valuables and even the wiskey in the basement!

I still keep going back to their age and the size of the house. I feel they were probably living on the 1st floor mostly and the upstairs was for visitors ( family and friends ) when they visited. I also keeping going over in my mind the rumor this was a hit from up North. What would be the basis for this ? they haven't lived up north in about 30 years . I read a link posted I think of page 16 about SS and the fbi going over video of the lake during May 2nd and 3rd if they have video and a timeline they must have seen the boat the used if they used one. I really think we should start from day 1 and rework this case. i'm going to work on a timeline in the coming months and see what we are missing

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

The Dermonds had it on the market?? I know the kids listed it after their death and estate settlement.

I dont think it was business either nor retribution

I dont think grandkids would have left it so pristine if angry, they would be emotionally involved, would have taken stuff out of the house

Drugs either, they wreck havoc when they need a fix, i've seen it and they steal and not even teh cash in SD wallet nor the rolex or liquor was removed

So if we narrowed it down to a hit but not from up north..................then by WHO

I don't believe for one second this has anything to do with his previous businesses. I mean something from 20 years ago! Forget it. I don't believe it's retribution for anything either. The place was left pristine, nothing taken. Has anyone checked out their grandkids? One could be on drugs and hurting for money. Also, the place was pristine because it was for sale and needed to be.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Let's do this:

1- angry grandchild........would have left a mess, like a druggee and woul dhave taken things from the home and probalby not beheaded nor hauled SD off and dumped in lake

2-mafia hit.....would have come in and shot them both and left them were they fell

3-serial killer.......would have likely seen murders of the same nature before the D's and especially AFTER the D's in the area or atleast in the same state

4-drugee/neighbor kid.........would have left a mess in house and stolen items that were not stolen during this crime, probably taken all the liquor or as much as they could carry

5-extortion....would have come during the week so they could take the D's to the bank, saturday banks are half day or closed in GA....and atm machines only give you $300 per transaction

6- Robbers........would have shot them AND taken their wares and cash and tv's and stereo and computer (and liquor ) and other hockable items

7 -hired hit man--would confuse the investigation and leave no trace and would take head to conceal evidence

What can we add or alter? Repost please

The Dermonds had it on the market?? I know the kids listed it after their death and estate settlement.

I dont think it was business either nor retribution

I dont think grandkids would have left it so pristine if angry, they would be emotionally involved, would have taken stuff out of the house

Drugs either, they wreck havoc when they need a fix, i've seen it and they steal and not even teh cash in SD wallet nor the rolex or liquor was removed

So if we narrowed it down to a hit but not from up north..................then by WHO

 

[nancydrew71]

The Dermonds had it on the market?? I know the kids listed it after their death and estate settlement.

I dont think it was business either nor retribution

I dont think grandkids would have left it so pristine if angry, they would be emotionally involved, would have taken stuff out of the house

Drugs either, they wreck havoc when they need a fix, i've seen it and they steal and not even teh cash in SD wallet nor the rolex or liquor was removed

So if we narrowed it down to a hit but not from up north..................then by WHO

I thought I read about the house for sale on the news long before joining WS. In fact I even thought maybe someone looking at the house, while they were there, might be casing it and coming back and doing this.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

WOW, I never saw that.........I do think a neighbors house was for sale though, could that have been it?If the D's was listed, I never heard of it Nancy or don't remember

I thought I read about the house for sale on the news long before joining WS. In fact I even thought maybe someone looking at the house, while they were there, might be casing it and coming back and doing this.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Wouldn't trulia or Zillow list the dates for sale? I think it went up for sale after it was released to them and it sold in less than a year from the murders which I find odd. Prime real estate but for the kids to sell it so fast and for less than it cost them to build sends up a red flag.

 

[auburnmomof2]

Let's do this:

1- angry grandchild........would have left a mess, like a druggee and woul dhave taken things from the home and probalby not beheaded nor hauled SD off and dumped in lake

2-mafia hit.....would have come in and shot them both and left them were they fell

3-serial killer.......would have likely seen murders of the same nature before the D's and especially AFTER the D's in the area or atleast in the same state

4-drugee/neighbor kid.........would have left a mess in house and stolen items that were not stolen during this crime, probably taken all the liquor or as much as they could carry

5-extortion....would have come during the week so they could take the D's to the bank, saturday banks are half day or closed in GA....and atm machines only give you $300 per transaction

6- Robbers........would have shot them AND taken their wares and cash and tv's and stereo and computer (and liquor ) and other hockable items

7 -hired hit man--would confuse the investigation and leave no trace and would take head to conceal evidence

8. Illegitimate son of Mr. D--would've held on to extreme hatred for a rough life without financial help from a wealthy father. Would've had the attitude that he didn't need or want anything from them at this point in his life but wanted them to pay for their mistakes
What can we add or alter? Repost please

Added number 8