GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[Deleted member 162919]

I'd say Keith is 62 and they resemble the D's so i'd say not adopted

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I never could see the resemblences LOL, thanks

I'd say Keith is 62 and they resemble the D's so i'd say not adopted

 

[Deleted member 162919]

I'm thinking the white male spotted in the yard was out there because of the beheading he couldn't handle seeing it done. This also tells me it was someone the D's knew. I'm also willing to bet SS has at least 1 person of interest and he's just waiting to pounce since his evidence can be contested with a decent lawyer

 

[jonnyrock]

As far as theories go the one I have the most trouble with in the NC one. I just can't follow the line that a random couple in Putnam County is murdered because they just so happened to reside in the same jurisdiction as SS. The implied link is NC retaliation for SS bringing down the cult leaders and/or make SS look like a fool because the murders cannot be solved. Now, I admit I may have that all wrong but that's how I'm reading it. It would make much more sense for NC retaliation to have been targeting the Federal prosecution team members or better yet, the sentencing Judge. That said, the cult leaders who were sentenced to serve in prison were the indisputable leaders and once they were gone, all that remained was a loose confederacy of followers. I believe some of the cult's rhetoric to have been violent but there does not appear to be any pattern of violence or mayhem attributable to the cult.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

You've said that before Hockeyguy....I'd forgotten......you may be rigth, I have a hard time relating to some of this, when I do or when I hear something related, it hits me in the gut.....................you may be right...............Gah!! , what if!?

That makes me sick to think of it, yeah why would someone risk being seen on the lawn other than something like that unless he was looking for something dropped somewhere.....but if he wanted to avoid it all, the white males not going to stay in the FRONT yard, by the garage, huh? He also wouldnt be out there just meandering around from curiousity or boredome I would surmise and he CANT go inside the house

makes sense, I imagine him pacing with nervousness and nausea......or maybe withdrawal, just get out of the garage and try to forget it all

I'm thinking the white male spotted in the yard was out there because of the beheading he couldn't handle seeing it done. This also tells me it was someone the D's knew. I'm also willing to bet SS has at least 1 person of interest and he's just waiting to pounce since his evidence can be contested with a decent lawyer

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Johnnyrock there is more, i read up on it a long time ago, beheadings and child molestation......but besides that........SS was the one, he was the one who took the first strike on the building when it was torn down, the PCSO received 1/3 of the funds gained on the sell of that property when it was confiscated, 1/3 to the FBI and 1/3 to another, maybe GBI or tax I cant remember.....Dwight York and his gang lost a million at least, cant remember the full amount but it was small

At any rate, SS hautiness in this whole case plus running them out of town, with help, yes, but he was the instigator and his life was threatened many times by DY or the cult itself....

Not saying they did it, i have trouble with it and other times I think it's possible but

has anyone ever thought that Russell Dermond favored SS at all? besided the mustache? LOL

ANother thing that bothers me J.R is the death of some others in the aera within a 2 year span, not poor or homeless people, but the upper class or atleast wanna be's LOL....Im sure yourve read up on that too

I dont think the cult would want another round with SS or the FBI, they'd just want to drop in, do something sinuous to drive SS nutty and scare the town......well it's working to a degree but not the magnituted they'd hoped IF it was them

and then again, I think it was someone they knew well or well enough to trust

we just dont have enough facts to demonstrate a solid theory..........as we know there are things SS is withholding....

As far as theories go the one I have the most trouble with in the NC one. I just can't follow the line that a random couple in Putnam County is murdered because they just so happened to reside in the same jurisdiction as SS. The implied link is NC retaliation for SS bringing down the cult leaders and/or make SS look like a fool because the murders cannot be solved. Now, I admit I may have that all wrong but that's how I'm reading it. It would make much more sense for NC retaliation to have been targeting the Federal prosecution team members or better yet, the sentencing Judge. That said, the cult leaders who were sentenced to serve in prison were the indisputable leaders and once they were gone, all that remained was a loose confederacy of followers. I believe some of the cult's rhetoric to have been violent but there does not appear to be any pattern of violence or mayhem attributable to the cult.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Dont remember the case but saw it on ID the other day....someone getting revenge after 20 years......they needed a hobby I suspect LOL

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Check out the Sherman double murder the latest news is about his cousin who said he dreamed about decapitating his cousin and dragging him through the parking lot. Beheadings don't happen much here as in other countries but when they do it usually suggest rage or revenge . The cult arrests were almost 10 years before this murder happened that's a lot of time . SS says he has dna and i'm sure a composite profile was run on that so he knows the gender and race of the person who's dna he has. 2 things about the dna SS has. 1 the dna matches someone who has probably been to the house recently and he can't prove otherwise 2 The dna came back with no hit in the system ( highly unlikely but possible) but he still knows specifics about the person such as race, gender, probably hair color etc.

SS is sitting on a treasure trove of evidence but can't make a move unless ( his exact words ) he gets a call from someone. Why? Because the evidence he has can be easily contested in court and would probably be thrown out because he can't prove it was from the time of the murders. I can say with certainty he has known since the beginning or at least the 1st month who did this. This case and it's files are in the department basement just waiting for the dots to be connected. SS probably hasn't worked this case more than a dozen times in almost 4 years after the 1st few months

 

[jonnyrock]

What is so amazing is these murders had a casting crew of multiple members. I still think the driveway suspect was a lookout person. A lot of time likely transpired between arrival and departure of the murderers. I believe the Dermonds were murdered somewhere outside and have often wondered if SD was alive when taken by boat to her watery grave. Blood spatter is lacking as far as we know. Perhaps it rained over the weekend of the murders?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

But luminol would detect if there was blood, can it be used outside? WHERE was it used?

I was always under the impression the man on the lawn was on the lake side! WOW, but that's risky walking around the front yeard bythe roadside isnt' it? Either way he had to be on the left side facing the house or neighbors wouldnt have seen him AND, we still dont know if it was maybe the lawn people who saw him from the house on the left who's owners were in Asia during this time or if it was someone across the cove, there is no one to see anything on the right side, it s a dead end cul de sac, someone had mentioend they thought maybe someone had walked by thehouse maybe walking a dog but in the podcast Ss said see Look thru the trees, their thick but you can see something but you cant make out everything or who it is, something to that affect....i still have trouble believing that they cuold tell if it was a man or a woman or if it was or wasn't Mr or Mrs D if their view was obscured, weve talked about this before, if you can tell it's a man, what factors made you realize it was a man, ...hey maybe they were getting ready to take her in the boat, someone was coming to get them and the lawn person was watching for them? But in broad daylight? They couldnlt walk her down there in daylight surely...

Ok but at any rate, SS DOES KNOW a description, he's holding that information from the public maybe...but why? I just can't believe there isn't more of a description if they saw it was a man thru thick trees, that even SS says it was hard to see thru and he didnt say he was shirtless

Didnt hear about this recent other case, going to check it out now

What is so amazing is these murders had a casting crew of multiple members. I still think the driveway suspect was a lookout person. A lot of time likely transpired between arrival and departure of the murderers. I believe the Dermonds were murdered somewhere outside and have often wondered if SD was alive when taken by boat to her watery grave. Blood spatter is lacking as far as we know. Perhaps it rained over the weekend of the murders?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

This did it for me. 100%...I have been looking for something more solid

THIS....this is what I have been wondering, HOW LONG did the perps stay at the Dermonds house? Wasnt that risky to stay, say , from 4 or 5 am saturday to after dark saturday evening??? in order to behead him and haul her off in the boat???

Well apparently NOT !!!

*Because of the highly organized crime scene, Sheriff Sills feels this attack was targeted. If law enforcement operates from this perspective, they will dig deeper into possible reasons the Dermonds would be targeted. A guilty person would not want the investigation to get too close to home. """Random classification""" would benefit them most..... According to The Crime Classification Manual by (Douglas, Burgess, Burgess and Ressler, 2006) we must ask
_____________________________________________________
THIS>>>>“How long did the offender stay at the scene?” He goes on to explain, “Generally the amount of time the offender spends at the scene is proportional to the degree of comfort he feels committing the crime at that particular location. Evidence of a lingering offender will often assist the investigation by directing it toward a subject who lives or works near the crime scene, knows the neighborhood and consequently feels at ease there.”
____________________________________
(Page 9 of the Introduction) It is apparent that this crime scene was organized and a lot of time was needed to behead Russell Dermond. We know this because his blood was congealed at the time. Lack of blood spatter at the scene demonstrates this. It is correctly assumed that this was not random"

SS knows there was no struggle and someone spent ALLL day at this house... so it was someone they knew and the someone who knew them also knew the lake and knew that the area they dropped her was likely not an area where boats frequented in and out of there due to all the stumps in that large alcove area is what I am gathering by SS statement that "they knew where they placed her and why" or something to that affect. I had often thought SS just meant that the lake was so large but now I dont believe that was the reason he thought they must know the lake so well


So he knows this was not a random drug dealer or theft, nothing was stolen and I think that Mrs D body was meant to be found where and when she was....someone discovering it after it rose, made it appear that it wasn't meant to be found

but Ive said many times, the perps were SO organized!!! WHY did they screw up this one thing...That was a no brainer IMO...

like some have said, the man on the lawn, either a lookout or couldnt stand the thought of the beheading so removed himself from the garage.....but knew it was necessary due to bullet or some other incriminating evidence that would have been left behind.....the man was already dead, what did it matter, it had to be done

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Which explains why SS needs a confession. The DNA he has is from a relative who can contest the evidence from a prior visit so SS will sit and wait until someone feels guilt ridden enough to confess. No complaining from the family as they don't want to stir the pot for fear of saying the wrong thing or getting another department involved

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I see it !! Well somehow they need to make whoever they suspect, to sweat....to get a confession from someone who knows or someone who was there, otherwise they get too comfortable, or is comfort a good thing, so they get relaxed and eventually accidntal incriminate themselves? But WHO's watching?

Which explains why SS needs a confession. The DNA he has is from a relative who can contest the evidence from a prior visit so SS will sit and wait until someone feels guilt ridden enough to confess. No complaining from the family as they don't want to stir the pot for fear of saying the wrong thing or getting another department involved

 

[Deleted member 162919]

It's one of those cases where it was planned almost perfectly except eventually someone will feel extreme guilt or there will be an arguement probably over money. Now we wait

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

SO EXCITING!!! Sweat people, sweat!!

Here is more :



JUST downloaded the FBI crime classification manual...will post as I read this thang!

It says: In some homicides, like cult
murder or drug murder, the body may be left in a degrading position or in a
location to convey a message.

RD body was hidden, in the garage with towels under his upper body to staunch the flow of blood, didnt want him found "right away"

The same with her, didnt want her found "RIGHT AWAY"

they needed time to get away

but this indicates it was NOT a cult, as you have been saying there is no "message" as it was hidden, other than the beheading.... but he was not intended to be found right away, although the shock factor was there with the beheading., which also makes it a "PERSONAL" crime

THIS is why SS said, for every professional thing the killers did, there is also an UNPROFFESSIONAL thing that was done

This would indicate, "PERSONAL" as you have also said, due to the beheading.....and the familiarity with the property, the reason they stayed so long

This was STAGED as many have said, myself included, to make it appear she was kidnapped and appear it was mob related. The family is italian, they even spoke italian, Tredesco or something like that

PERSONAL:


KIDNAPPING: There was no ransom note....

Offender communication
(such as a ransom demand or extortion note) frequently is associated with
the crime scene of a kidnap murder or product tampering

Another reason SS stated for everythign they did that looked professional there was equally something that was UNprofessional about this case

CONTROL OF VICTIMS:

How did the offender control the victim? Are restraints present at the scene, or did
the offender immediately blitz and incapacitate the victim?

THIS IS why it appears it was someone they knew, there was no forced entry and no other wounds as in they did not put up a fight , IIRC

TIME AT RESIDENCE:

How long did the offender stay at the scene? Generally the amount of time
the offender spends at the scene is proportional to the degree of comfort he
feels committing the offense at that particular location. Evidence of a lingering
offender will often assist the investigation by directing it toward a subject
who lives or works near the crime scene, knows the neighborhood, and
consequently feels at ease there.

This was a key factor to me. I kept saying, MAN that was risky........well they or atleast one or two felt comfortable there to say for over 18 hours or more, arrived early, got her first, he had just risen, was in Pjs, bed was unmade, she was dressed for the day, coffee was on, ready for breakfast

someone knew their routine and no items were stolen.....unless someone has a souvenier we are unaware of........

The man on the lawn felt VERY COMFORTABLE to even be outside during the commission of this crime, stayed over 15 hours likely, AND FELT COMFORTABLE ON THAT LAKE and knew where they dumped her was full of tree stumps...

Maybe they didnt want her found or maybe they didnt want either of them FOUND RIGHT AWAY

This clearly all indicates they knew their perpetrator well IMO, which is nothing new as its been told by investigators early on, it reiterates and explains the "WHY" other than no forced entry

Thanks to the FBI crime manual I found online, it was more than just my opinion or someone elses!

It's one of those cases where it was planned almost perfectly except eventually someone will feel extreme guilt or there will be an argument probably over money. Now we wait

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

CRIME SCENE Indicators noted:

Several factors at the scene are indicative of offender sophistication. One
index of this professionalism is the weapon that is used. Customized suppressors,
handguns, or other instruments of death often indicate a specialist
who is comfortable with killing. The crime scene may reflect this in other
ways, including LITTLE OR NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE LEFT AT SCENE, effective staging,
ELABORATE BODY DISPOSAL, and a crime scene that shows a systematic,
orderly approach before, during, and after the crime

STAGING OR LACK OF:
If staging is absent, there will be no other crime indicators: for
example, NOTHING will be MISSING , and there will be NO SEXUAL assault. Secondary
criminal activity may mean that the offender is YOUTHFUL, an AMATEUR,
or of low intelligence.

Secondary criminal activity to confuse the primary motive of murder may
include the appearance of: KIDNAPPING.

COMMON FORENSIC FINDINGS:
The veteran professional killer, for example, may
choose a weapon that is difficult to trace and focus the area of injury to the
victim’s vital organs, especially the HEAD. A blitz or ambush style of attack is also common
to this type of killing.


HERE AGAIN, SOMETHING PROFESSIONAL AND SOMETHING NOT

So what does that imply then about the perpetrator?

-----
from the FBI crime manual

 

[Lawdog99]

What is so amazing is these murders had a casting crew of multiple members. I still think the driveway suspect was a lookout person. A lot of time likely transpired between arrival and departure of the murderers. I believe the Dermonds were murdered somewhere outside and have often wondered if SD was alive when taken by boat to her watery grave. Blood spatter is lacking as far as we know. Perhaps it rained over the weekend of the murders?

I still believe Mrs. D was alive when taken from the home. I just don't see someone risking being seen toting a body down to a boat whether it be there or some other lake entering. JMO

 

[Lawdog99]

SO EXCITING!!! Sweat people, sweat!!

Here is more :



JUST downloaded the FBI crime classification manual...will post as I read this thang!

It says: In some homicides, like cult
murder or drug murder, the body may be left in a degrading position or in a
location to convey a message.

RD body was hidden, in the garage with towels under his upper body to staunch the flow of blood, didnt want him found "right away"

The same with her, didnt want her found "RIGHT AWAY"

they needed time to get away

but this indicates it was NOT a cult, as you have been saying there is no "message" as it was hidden, other than the beheading.... but he was not intended to be found right away, although the shock factor was there with the beheading., which also makes it a "PERSONAL" crime

THIS is why SS said, for every professional thing the killers did, there is also an UNPROFFESSIONAL thing that was done

This would indicate, "PERSONAL" as you have also said, due to the beheading.....and the familiarity with the property, the reason they stayed so long

This was STAGED as many have said, myself included, to make it appear she was kidnapped and appear it was mob related. The family is italian, they even spoke italian, Tredesco or something like that

PERSONAL:


KIDNAPPING: There was no ransom note....

Offender communication
(such as a ransom demand or extortion note) frequently is associated with
the crime scene of a kidnap murder or product tampering

Another reason SS stated for everythign they did that looked professional there was equally something that was UNprofessional about this case

CONTROL OF VICTIMS:

How did the offender control the victim? Are restraints present at the scene, or did
the offender immediately blitz and incapacitate the victim?

THIS IS why it appears it was someone they knew, there was no forced entry and no other wounds as in they did not put up a fight , IIRC

TIME AT RESIDENCE:

How long did the offender stay at the scene? Generally the amount of time
the offender spends at the scene is proportional to the degree of comfort he
feels committing the offense at that particular location. Evidence of a lingering
offender will often assist the investigation by directing it toward a subject
who lives or works near the crime scene, knows the neighborhood, and
consequently feels at ease there.

This was a key factor to me. I kept saying, MAN that was risky........well they or atleast one or two felt comfortable there to say for over 18 hours or more, arrived early, got her first, he had just risen, was in Pjs, bed was unmade, she was dressed for the day, coffee was on, ready for breakfast

someone knew their routine and no items were stolen.....unless someone has a souvenier we are unaware of........

The man on the lawn felt VERY COMFORTABLE to even be outside during the commission of this crime, stayed over 15 hours likely, AND FELT COMFORTABLE ON THAT LAKE and knew where they dumped her was full of tree stumps...

Maybe they didnt want her found or maybe they didnt want either of them FOUND RIGHT AWAY

This clearly all indicates they knew their perpetrator well IMO, which is nothing new as its been told by investigators early on, it reiterates and explains the "WHY" other than no forced entry

Thanks to the FBI crime manual I found online, it was more than just my opinion or someone elses!

This got me thinking what if Mrs. D went willing out to a boat to go for a boatride with someone claiming "Hey I want you to see my new boat, I will ride you out on the lake while Mr. D talks to X. Mr. D is killed while they are gone and Mrs. D killed out on water and thrown out like trash. So sad no matter how it happened. Nobody deserves this kind of death. jmo

 

[Lawdog99]

CRIME SCENE Indicators noted:

Several factors at the scene are indicative of offender sophistication. One
index of this professionalism is the weapon that is used. Customized suppressors,
handguns, or other instruments of death often indicate a specialist
who is comfortable with killing. The crime scene may reflect this in other
ways, including LITTLE OR NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE LEFT AT SCENE, effective staging,
ELABORATE BODY DISPOSAL, and a crime scene that shows a systematic,
orderly approach before, during, and after the crime

STAGING OR LACK OF:
If staging is absent, there will be no other crime indicators: for
example, NOTHING will be MISSING , and there will be NO SEXUAL assault. Secondary
criminal activity may mean that the offender is YOUTHFUL, an AMATEUR,
or of low intelligence.

Secondary criminal activity to confuse the primary motive of murder may
include the appearance of: KIDNAPPING.

COMMON FORENSIC FINDINGS:
The veteran professional killer, for example, may
choose a weapon that is difficult to trace and focus the area of injury to the
victim’s vital organs, especially the HEAD. A blitz or ambush style of attack is also common
to this type of killing.


HERE AGAIN, SOMETHING PROFESSIONAL AND SOMETHING NOT

So what does that imply then about the perpetrator?

-----
from the FBI crime manual

My gut tells me more than one person did this and at least one was a professional hitman.

 

[rosesfromangels]

My gut tells me more than one person did this and at least one was a professional hitman.

Because the wife’s body was weighted down in an amateur manner and floated to the surface of the lake, A professional hit is unlikely.

I’ve only just read about this case today, and my first reaction is that it’s related to the deceased sons drug dealings. This is a revenge hit for time spent in jail,etc.

Amateur opinion and speculation.
Payback hit.