GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 2

[gngr~snap]

The perp had to have a fail proof getaway.
If he went by land, security could alert police and they could find him. Especially if security followed.
The water is the safest route. It would take time to get a boat search going.

This may not apply there, but here on Lake Allatoona, once you set foot on Corps property, Bartow County can no longer peruse you. They must call Corps of Engineers.

IMO as far as a getaway goes the water is the path of least resistance.
Moo

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[fred&edna]

Don't make me get my gator out again...:facepalm:

Teenage Mutant Ninjators?

 

[Bootsctr]

Look, I'm just glad gators aren't in my area!! Those things seriously scare me as much as those huge pythons and other snakes. Great...now I've got snakes on my mind. Darn it all!!


PS...how do you keep cats, dogs, etc., in areas where gators exist? I can't bear the thought of gators out snacking on my pets. Nope...no way! Bet they eat chickens too!! NOOOO!! Can't have that happening. Every critter wants to eat chickens.

I wish this case would get solved like, yesterday!! It's scary as all get out. If I lived in that area, gosh, I would would want some answers, some assurance that I'm a little bit safe, something. I mean, all those retired folks, who knows if one of them is the next target! And something else, do many people have guns there? Looks like the HOA restricts dogs to a degree. I dunno. In each case, I guess I look for a reason that it happened to that victim, and therefore won't happen to me. But reality, it could be any of us at any time. That's why I don't yell at my dogs when they bark at night. Nope, I check it out, or wake hubby to check it out, and then calm the dogs.

Locked doors....check
Locked windows....check
Large dogs....check
Guns...check
No posting where you're going, or that you're on vacation....check


What else can we do not to become a statistic? (sigh)

:goodpost: :tyou: If I lived in that type of neighborhood, I would have a dog or dogs. Now I know from friends who live in a fancy schmancy gated community and their neighbors have dogs. Dobermans. Great guard dogs. They are driving my friends a bit crazy because she says they bark incessantly while the owners are gone. However, I. Keyes said he specifically targeted homes without dogs and homes with attached garages :scared:. Even a little poodle or pomeranian or any pooch adopted from a local shelter will bark to alert their human parents to anything odd. And in watching the kitty cat video going viral on youtube that attacks the dog that attacks the kitty cat's little boy I think cats can alert people to "something just isn't right" situations. One last thing about gators, there is a youtube video of a kitty cat attacking a gator who gets a little to close to a small child in the video. Cat was smarter than the parents. These gators were not scared of people at all. I think the people running their little tour operation were feeding these beats. Anyone the gator retreated after the cat put some whoop arse for getting to close to the child.

That being said, we don't know if the Dermonds had a family pet. If they did it wasn't a large dog I would venture to say. Maybe a cat or maybe a little poodle. I wish we knew if they did have a pet and if the pet was missing. Maybe the perps let Mrs. Dermond take the pet with her for a sense of security although I highly doubt it. *sigh. Hoping Mrs. Dermond is found soon and I wish she would be found alive. I sincerely hope she isn't being tortured but clearly she is a smart lady. If she got inside this perps head by talking about her family and her life she could have gotten the perp to look at her as a human being and not an object. Highly doubtful, but I can hope right?

 

[Bootsctr]

And might I say it will be a tiny breed whose owner just paid a few Benjamin's for a groom, nail paint and pretty bow. This pup would be the likely dog to find any remains on a property that has yet to be checked.

Speaking of which... have home owners been asked to scout their property for anything unusual?
Decomp alone should be obvious, but maybe not to some of the elders.
Could she and his head be buried on the golf course?
Sand trap?
Moo

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Yes, yes and yes regarding the pup! Hadn't thought about the sand trap being a disposal site, but definitely up there as a possibility and I hope LE is checking into that possibility. Great thoughts!

 

[Bootsctr]

Teenage Mutant Ninjators?

:silly: Yes. How could I be amiss regarding Teenage Mutant ninjator turtles?

 

[gngr~snap]

:goodpost: :tyou: If I lived in that type of neighborhood, I would have a dog or dogs. Now I know from friends who live in a fancy schmancy gated community and their neighbors have dogs. Dobermans. Great guard dogs. They are driving my friends a bit crazy because she says they bark incessantly while the owners are gone. However, I. Keyes said he specifically targeted homes without dogs and homes with attached garages :scared:. Even a little poodle or pomeranian or any pooch adopted from a local shelter will bark to alert their human parents to anything odd. And in watching the kitty cat video going viral on youtube that attacks the dog that attacks the kitty cat's little boy I think cats can alert people to "something just isn't right" situations. One last thing about gators, there is a youtube video of a kitty cat attacking a gator who gets a little to close to a small child in the video. Cat was smarter than the parents. These gators were not scared of people at all. I think the people running their little tour operation were feeding these beats. Anyone the gator retreated after the cat put some whoop arse for getting to close to the child.

That being said, we don't know if the Dermonds had a family pet. If they did it wasn't a large dog I would venture to say. Maybe a cat or maybe a little poodle. I wish we knew if they did have a pet and if the pet was missing. Maybe the perps let Mrs. Dermond take the pet with her for a sense of security although I highly doubt it. *sigh. Hoping Mrs. Dermond is found soon and I wish she would be found alive. I sincerely hope she isn't being tortured but clearly she is a smart lady. If she got inside this perps head by talking about her family and her life she could have gotten the perp to look at her as a human being and not an object. Highly doubtful, but I can hope right?

A dog?
Would be the first targeted to go if this was "planned".
Can't have Rover barking and alerting people.
That's why many people train their dog not to take food from anyone until they say it's ok.
(Not to sure how that works)
Also keeping the dog indoors and walking on a leash protects them some in a situation like this.

Police rarely report on pets. A pet whether missing or on the scene dead would give a direction in which to persue IMO...
They do do dog autopsies and drug screens....
When the situation warrants it.
Moo

ETA I have heard nothing about a pet.
Mr. D walked a lot.
Not one person said walked his dog a lot.
If he were a dog owner I believe he would have the dog with him frequently.
Who knows!
moo

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[oceanblueeyes]

From story:
"A devastated son whose father was beheaded and his mother abducted a week ago today said he now hopes she is dead to ‘ease her suffering’ as it is too unbearable to think of her in pain." BBM, RBM

As I said in above post, the quote may not have been verbatim.
I can him or anyone the benefit of doubt--- after these events.
Just struck me as a bit unusual.

I actually understand the son and why he said what he said.

Sometimes living is worse than dying.

The children are no different than we all are. I have no doubt they wrestle with the thoughts about what their poor mother may have endured and know it would be best for her if she no longer has to suffer at the hands of the monsters who took her.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

So often when cases like this happen most assume immediately it just had to be personal. Maybe that is a way to protect ourselves because if they were chosen at random then that means we all have to deal with the fact that none of us are safe anywhere we may live and if it can happen to the Dermonds it can happen to all of us. Imo, the Dermonds weren't personally targeted. They were used as victims so the murderer could make a point.

I truly think the murderer lives right in that subdivision or resided there for years and may have recently lost their home.

Humans are very strange creatures sometimes..........when they fall they want to take others down with them.

What better way to make this elite community suddenly become hands-off. Who is really going to buy property there now when elderly people are getting their heads cutoff and are being kidnapped and presumed dead. Whoever this is has now changed RP from being one of the most sought out areas to being one where everyone living there is living in fear. It has now become a pariah.

Murderers always care about how they carry out their crimes especially if LE is dealing with a sociopath who is a very organized murderer. They want their crime to be different than others. Unique. One that is more shocking than the rest.....one that invokes more terror........one that causes the most fear in everyone. Only they know why they do the murders the way they do. To us it is confusing but to them in their depraved mind it all makes sense.

I still say the answer to this case is right there in the community. It makes much more sense to me. That person would know all about the Dermonds......how secluded their home was......and they lived all alone. They would know the camera wasn't working. They would know the wooded trails and how to get down to the lake undetected. They would know not to enter the house or to do the murder there because they live in that community themselves and knows it could lead back to them if they left evidence behind.

It is a big place and a lot of it is wooded areas. Lots of ways to get through it in the dark of night undetected.

Someone unfamiliar with RP wouldn't know all these things that would have to be known to be able to do it all undetected.

IMO

 

[Carolinapeach]

The perp had to have a fail proof getaway.
If he went by land, security could alert police and they could find him. Especially if security followed.
The water is the safest route. It would take time to get a boat search going.

This may not apply there, but here on Lake Allatoona, once you set foot on Corps property, Bartow County can no longer peruse you. They must call Corps of Engineers.

IMO as far as a getaway goes the water is the path of least resistance.
Moo

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That's interesting about Lake Allatoona. I did not know that. It is different on Lake Oconee and Lake Sinclair. IIRC, it was a sheriff's boat left at the Dermond's dock. Huge area to cover by boat though. I see them on the water occasionally on Sinclair and I'm not sure about night patrols. I wouldn't be able to tell if it was a DNR or Sheriff patrol boat after dark anyway.

Marine Patrol:
http://www.putnamcountysheriff.org/page.php?id=10&PHPSESSID=7faef55363f5c9642e4b90cfad38b180

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The perp had to have a fail proof getaway.
If he went by land, security could alert police and they could find him. Especially if security followed.
The water is the safest route. It would take time to get a boat search going.

This may not apply there, but here on Lake Allatoona, once you set foot on Corps property, Bartow County can no longer peruse you. They must call Corps of Engineers.

IMO as far as a getaway goes the water is the path of least resistance.
Moo

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

One of the problems I think LE may be having is having good probable cause to search homes inside of the community. They just cant go into each and every home and search through every room thoroughly without a search warrant. And they wouldn't do it by permission of the homeowner because if they did find something of value then the defense attorneys would cry there was no legal search warrant to even search the homes.

That is where they are stymied imo.

It makes sense to me that the original crime scene of where Russ was murdered is in the community itself. Someone who is very self assured they will be the least suspecting person to suspect. I think all of this was done right in the vicinity and close proximity to the Dermonds home.

That way they would never have to go out the gate at all. They would take them to their own home where they wouldn't be seen or interrupted, do the deeds, and then go to the boat ramp to dispose of the head and Shirley's body while never going in or out the entrance gate. On the way to the boat ramp they went by and dropped off Russ' torso for shock value.

I have even wondered if they may have thrown Shirley over the side of the boat while she was alive when they were getting rid of Russ' head. I really doubt they will ever find any remains. This lake is so vast they could have taken them miles and miles away before returning to their home pretending nothing ever happened.

IMO

 

[gngr~snap]

That's interesting about Lake Allatoona. I did not know that. It is different on Lake Oconee and Lake Sinclair. IIRC, it was a sheriff's boat left at the Dermond's dock. Huge area to cover by boat though. I see them on the water occasionally on Sinclair and I'm not sure about night patrols. I wouldn't be able to tell if it was a DNR or Sheriff patrol boat after dark anyway.

Marine Patrol:
http://www.putnamcountysheriff.org/page.php?id=10&PHPSESSID=7faef55363f5c9642e4b90cfad38b180

Where we live there is no lake front property. There is about a 500 yard buffer of Corps property between the houses and the lake.
For instance let's say some teens decide to have a bonfire and camp on the property. I hear them, their music and can see the camp fire from my porch in the distance.
Local LE won't respond but they will call DNR I guess.
I just leave them alone, other neighbors report them.
DNR used to hide back there and ticket people riding 4 wheelers on their property.
They pull their air boat up to shore and start walking... issuing tickets.

****now if we have a drowning in the cove and someone was seen going under, Bartow does show up.
Or if a 4 wheel driver wrecks and needs air lift out, Bartow assists. No way to get emergency aid down those trails!
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[Foxfire]

"Do we really know how many predators/serial killers are active in the USA, at any given time"? There are estimates by the FBI of 50 to 75. These estimates are very conservative for many reasons, imo. During an FBI international SK symposium in 2006, the definition of serial killer was changed from three victims to only two. This was done to make it easier for local PDs to request FBI assistance and their unlimited resources in SK investigations.

In 2004 an OSBI analyst noticed the high volume of victims located near interstates. By 2009 the FBI Trucker Serial Killer Initiative was established. Over 500 victims and 200 long haul trucker POIs & Suspects were identified by FBI VICAP analysts in less than four years. - http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/april/highwayserial_040609 -See Map
Imo, this is only two of the many reasons that the estimates by officials of active predators/SKs in the US are very low.
"Awareness is the key"..

_____________________
Interesting read, imo;

“JOURNEY INTO DARKNESS” BY JOHN DOUGLAS(1997); Author and retired FBI BSU; Behavioral Science Unit Behavioral Profiler. JD penetrates the minds and motives of the most terrifying prolific predators/serial killers.

John Douglas, was one of the early pioneers of the FBI’s Elite BSU and many of the techniques, strategies, and procedures used in tracking and identifying unidentified subjects today can be attributed to his experiences journeying into the abyss, or darkness of these evil minds…

'The FBI BSU's name was later changed to the BAU for obvious reasons; (BS Unit), which was referred too as the witches unit due to it being located 60' underground, with dim lighting/no windows, and their unique ability to enter the darkness of the minds that they frequently and routinely encountered'..

Prologue: ‘In the Mind of a Killer’

This isn’t the Hollywood version. It isn’t sanitized, or prettied up, or rendered into art. This is the way it really happens. If anything, it’s worse than the way I describe it…

AS I HAD SO MANY TIMES BEFORE, I PUT MYSELF IN THE MIND OF THE KILLER.. Quote: by John Douglas...
Journey Into Darkness: John E. Douglas, Mark Olshaker: 9781439199817

He goes on to say that he also puts his head into the mind of the victim/s, also to be able to see the whole picture….Guess, you have to interpret the artwork to understand the artist's motives.

This experience could cause a very strong minded person, severe physical and mental health issues, imo..

As do Catholic Priests that perform multiple exorcisms, Agent Douglas, paid a hefty price with his health, even though he possessed a high tolerance level, due to the enormous level of ‘evil’ that he and his BSU team of profilers encountered...

 

[shefner]

"Do we really know how many predators/serial killers are active in the USA, at any given time"? There are estimates by the FBI of 50 to 75. These estimates are very conservative for many reasons, imo. During an FBI international SK symposium in 2006, the definition of serial killer was changed from three victims to only two. This was done to make it easier for local PDs to request FBI assistance and their unlimited resources in SK investigations.

In 2004 an OSBI analyst noticed the high volume of victims located near interstates. By 2009 the FBI Trucker Serial Killer Initiative was established. Over 500 victims and 200 long haul trucker POIs & Suspects were identified by FBI VICAP analysts in less than four years. - http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/april/highwayserial_040609 -See Map
Imo, this is only two of the many reasons that the estimates by officials of active predators/SKs in the US are very low.
"Awareness is the key"..

_____________________
Interesting read, imo;

“JOURNEY INTO DARKNESS” BY JOHN DOUGLAS(1997); Author and retired FBI BSU; Behavioral Science Unit Behavioral Profiler. JD penetrates the minds and motives of the most terrifying prolific predators/serial killers.

John Douglas, was one of the early pioneers of the FBI’s Elite BSU and many of the techniques, strategies, and procedures used in tracking and identifying unidentified subjects today can be attributed to his experiences into the abyss or darkness…

'The FBI BSU's name was later changed to the BAU for obvious reasons; (BS Unit), which was referred too as the witches unit due to it being located 60' underground, with dim lighting/no windows, and their unique ability to enter the darkness of the minds that they frequently and routinely encountered'..

Prologue: ‘In the Mind of a Killer’

This isn’t the Hollywood version. It isn’t sanitized, or prettied up, or rendered into art. This is the way it really happens. If anything, it’s worse than the way I describe it…

AS I HAD SO MANY TIMES BEFORE, I PUT MYSELF IN THE MIND OF THE KILLER.. Quote: by John Douglas...
Journey Into Darkness: John E. Douglas, Mark Olshaker: 9781439199817: Amazon.com: Books

He goes on to say that he also puts his head into the head of the victim also to be able to see the whole picture….

This experience could cause a strong minded person, severe physical and mental health issues, imo..

As do Catholic Priests that perform multiple exorcisms, Agent Douglas, paid a hefty price with his health, even though he possessed a high tolerance level, due to the enormous level of ‘evil’ that he and his team encountered...

Great book....read it several years ago and need to do so again.

 

[Cbm]

If my elderly mother was missing after finding my father dead and decapitated, I would hope she was dead too. (NOT suffering)

There are things much worse than death.

I agree. As I said before, everyone who I have discussed the case with has said those exact words.

 

[Cbm]

Is Great Waters accessible through neighboring neighborhoods?

 

[georgiagirl]

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/loca...onbox_apr2013_ajcstub1#065b272d.553967.735369

Keith Dermond has no idea why anyone would kill his father and presumably abduct his mother.
It’s been nine days since 88-year-old Russell Dermond’s decapitated body was found and his wife reported missing. Though the search for 87-year-old Shirley Dermond continues, investigators doubt she’ll be found alive.
Part of Keith Dermond hopes she’s not. He’d like to think she went quietly, shielded from the depravity that befell her husband of 62 years.
“The thought of her suffering is too much to bear,” Dermond, 55, told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Thursday from his home in Jacksonville.
Investigators believe they were killed sometime between May 2 and 3rd. Though he wouldn’t elaborate, Keith Dermond said it’s likely the crimes happened during the day.
“They had a security system. And they always kept their doors locked,” Dermond said. “They were religious about that.”
Dermond also revealed that cameras manning the gates at Reynolds Plantation weren’t functioning at the time.
Polygraph tests were administered to maintenance workers with access inside the gated community about 80 miles southeast of Atlanta, but nothing came of them, Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills said.
“I’m still interviewing friends” of the couple, Sills told The AJC. Many of them are afraid to talk. “There’s a lot of fear.”
The Dermonds’ children aren’t immune to those fears.
“We’ve got a little bit of concern,” Keith Dermond said. “We’ve gotten a few weird phone calls.”
None of them have provided any information about who killed their father and took his mother.
The family’s only previous brush with violence came in 2000, when the couple’s oldest son, Mark Dermond, was killed while trying to buy crack cocaine in Atlanta. Neither Keith Dermond or investigators believe there’s any connection.
“It was so long ago. My parents didn’t even attend the trial” of Mark Dermond’s killer, his brother said. “It doesn’t make any sense.”
Nothing does.

More at link


Does anyone else think it strange they didn't attend their son's murder trial?

 

[Foxfire]

Where we live there is no lake front property. There is about a 500 yard buffer of Corps property between the houses and the lake.
For instance let's say some teens decide to have a bonfire and camp on the property. I hear them, their music and can see the camp fire from my porch in the distance.
Local LE won't respond but they will call DNR I guess.
I just leave them alone, other neighbors report them.
DNR used to hide back there and ticket people riding 4 wheelers on their property.
They pull their air boat up to shore and start walking... issuing tickets.

****now if we have a drowning in the cove and someone was seen going under, Bartow does show up.
Or if a 4 wheel driver wrecks and needs air lift out, Bartow assists. No way to get emergency aid down those trails!
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Imo, the perp/perps meticulously preplanned the Dermond's abduction/murder/decapitation. Pyschopaths, usually of higher intelligence, do not think like you or I, yet have the ability to creatively stage crimes, to manipulate the theories and thinking of investigators. Imo, and from my experience and observations only. If psychopaths say no, think yes, and if the most logical means of transport is by water/boat, this was likely a calculated deflection by the psychopathic perp/s to misdirect investigators, imo... 'Sadistic psychopaths simply use Occams Razor as a tool for shaving'..

'Hook, Line, and Sinker'...

While DNR and other searchers/investigators was focusing all their available resources and manpower on the obvious; 'the murky waters of the 2,000 acre Oconee lake' for days/weeks, to no avail. Other critical areas of importance were overlooked. The vast miles and acreage of forested land, logging roads, primitive campsites, abandoned structures in state/federal WMAs surrounding the lake, etc., as well as the gated community properties were virtually all neglected by searchers and investigators, imo.. We have yet to hear of a roadblock initiated in the Dermond investigation to retrieve info from locals, visitors, hunters, fishermen, etc. Turkey season ended yesterday & this is prime time for fishing season/tournaments, mountain biking, etc.
Sure hope this limited investigative search strategy doesn't come back to haunt investigators..

After 5 Years - 'Notorious Crime Still Haunts'
http://www.myajc.com/news/news/after-5-years-notorious-crime-still-haunts/nTyq3/

 

[scubadvr99]

What gator theory Scuba?! I asked if there were gators in the lake. Reasons being if so
1) what fools would be out at night in a boat when you would be unable to see them and 2).If there were knowm gators in the lake, what a great way to dispose of body parts. That's it. This poor man's head was gone before gators ever entered.into the picture.

I apologize, I thought a poster put that a gator could have taken his head and taken Mrs. D.

When I read that, I just put my opinion on how I didn't think that was possible.

 

[scubadvr99]

THe gators are in most all GA rivers, ponds but not generally lakes, not to say they can't get in but they would be removed by DNR, can't kill'em I think and only in season in FL

I've seen gators run across the hwy near Myrtle Beach where the marsh is, those damned things are everwhere, lol, GA is full of them but not in the lakes, if we see an odd looking log in the lake here, we always look to see if it's a gator, been on these lakes all my life, never witnessed one there, not there territory, dont' know about brackish

people do kayak, boat and float on the rivers btw, gators eat at night

that being said...........someone could feed them I suppose to get rid of something

I lived on Lake Blackshear for 25 years and it is full of them. Also, several people that I know have ponds and will occasionally have them. They will notice their cows start going missing.

I believe it was 3 years ago that Ga. opened a season for gators. http://www.eregulations.com/georgia/hunting/alligator/
It used to be a $10,000 fine for shooting/killing gators out of season, but unsure of the amount now.

 

[scubadvr99]

To me, it just seems that it was premeditated and well planned. I would think that someone to be decapitated, would have to be someone that has done something like this before. I don't understand why they would take Mrs. D.

I keep going back and forth on theories, was it someone in their lives, someone in their kids and grandkids lives, or was it a serial killer that somehow came into their lives and killed them? Initially, I thought it was some kind of hit, but the sheriff seems to have ruled this out.

BTW, I think the sheriff is doing a great job and was correct in involving the FBI. I wish that they had come in during the TG case in Ocilla years ago, I have always thought if they had, it would have been solved by now.

All MOO