GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 4

[atthelake]

bbm, ....

<snipped>

Does LE know the last person either of the Ds spoke to on their phone.

Not that I have heard.


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[tomkat]

Going to bed, big weekend at the lake, won't be dropping in early alone to get things readied THIS TIME though and will leave when everyone else does instead of hanging around an extra day to tidy up

I'll be checking in when I can, this wont' be far from my mind, be safe all

 

[gngr~snap]

Wait, what?? IN RP? OH but you are assuming the perp is living in RP, heck no, they'd say Pssssh...........but sills did say something about possibly getting the reward raised, organized aint talking unless someone just overheard but thugs might, I dont think it's thugs, but Sills can try and see what happens once raising Reward

No that someone in RP knows who the perps might be.
For instance RD shared some info with them a few weeks ago.
Moo

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[gngr~snap]

Going to bed, big weekend at the lake, won't be dropping in early alone to get things readied THIS TIME though and will leave when everyone else does instead of hanging around an extra day to tidy up

I'll be checking in when I can, this wont' be far from my mind, be safe all

Hopefully when you get home the perps are locked up.
Wishful thinking!
Have fun, be safe!
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[MizStery]

It is not totally formulated yet, but here goes and I am just throwing hypotheses out there.

What is the best way to drive home prices down: Crime. Area has million dollar homes; exclusive; gated. Reynolds Plantation was bankrupt prior to the sale to MetLife. The 3600 Residents would not agree to buy Reynolds Plantation for 20K a piece, so the developer had to find outside funds. Residents: 80% voted against, 20% for the assessment.

Retribution for the vote and development takeover by MetLife. How is MetLife going to build and sell houses, create shopping centers, drive new money into this area now? Just a thought.

I get the crime and property value part

I need to concentrate on the RP bankruptcy

SO RP was tyring to prevent bankruptcy by selling each resident RP at $20K a piece.....

WHo was going to maintain it all then if there was no HOA funds?

Okay, so it was voted out by residents.

RP bankrupts. Wait, FILED bankruptcy? Or do you mean, were simply out of funds? If you bankrupt or if foreclosed (by whom) you can't sell unless it's a short sale/ bank pre approved

Ok I'm going with RP had no funds bankrupt and then sold to Metlife.

(or did metlife takeover?)

WHY then did RP need to sell to residents? or was this tried prior to the sale to Metlife


RP is pissed they had to sell?

So now metlife new owner, RP was the developer

Rsomeone kills dermonds to drive prices downP so metlife can't..........what? maintain the common grounds?

I'm clearly missing SOMETHING LOL

Ok, metlife tookover, if their was a bankrupcy deficiency, Metlife would attach to more or RP property or try to attach other properties owned by RP even in another LLC if same owners

SO now metlife can't develop etc etc

How does that HELP RP? buy it back? Under another LLC? because I doubt they'd work with RP now after bankruptcy

HMMMMMM, not sure if I followed you or made up my own scenario LOL

SINISTER !!!!!! well a decapitation would keep me from buying there

for now, a few years from now, sadly, it won't be top news but ,..by then, Metlife will be bankrupt LOL

I'll ask my cousin, she's a commercial RE professional!

I have done the same thing and tried to see what would be accomplished by killing these two people in the manner it was done. Shock factor; to induce fear and to cause .... what .... if this was not something directly connected (real or perceived) to the Dermond&#8217;s?

MetLife ---
Stockholder could take a hit, when they can&#8217;t make the property profitable enough to resell for more than they paid.
Because they need to develop new lots to increase value
and who would want to buy into an area that is &#8220;troubled&#8221;.
without new sales it can&#8217;t afford upgrades and/or increases to amenities.

Residents ---
Would take a hit when they attempt to sell, (and re-estate is not going gang busters now as it is)
Increases in home foreclosures.
Increases in depressed sales because older people will have to except
lower prices so they can move into assisted living
Businesses ---
Would take a hit when tourists don&#8217;t visit, and locals tighten their belts
to make up for potential increase in taxes
to make up for increased police presence
to make up for any losses to municipal coffers based on reduced monies coming in because of lower prices of any home sales.

The only one who could possibly gain is someone/group who wants to be able to buy the entire property at a great discount.
I would think that it would take more than a single homicide case to cause all of that and it would not be anything that would happen any time soon.

80% of the residents were not willing to fork out $20,000 to keep the property from being sold to another entity so even if Mr. and Mrs. D were one of that 80% group that leaves a whole lot of people left who felt the same way. Why then would just retribution to them make a change.

None of the above seems to make enough sense to be a valid reason. Which brings me back to some kind of a personal connection to the D&#8217;s?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10533938&highlight=Metlife#post10533938
I apologize for this long post but there i so much inormation that I just couldn't edit it down without changing the point of each poster.

The following two posts can be read at link above:

#904
Originally Posted by fred&edna *
I've always thought this crime was about some sort of revenge BUT I also thought MrD's head would be sent/delivered to the intended recipient, AND... I've occasionally been wrong in my thinking*

I don't know if this plays a part (maybe not since this occurred in 2012)... I wonder if some homeowners sold their property and lost a great deal of money?*

"But many of Reynolds Plantation's 3,600 property owners are concerned, he said, about the status of membership deposits, which were as high as $110,000 for some. They worry they will not see that money returned as they initially were promised if they were to sell their properties."

http://www.ajc.com/news/business/reynolds-plantation-purchase-part-of-longterm-plan/nQTmT/
Curiouser and curiouser I say...

#919
In Response to the above post*
Posted by *Bootsctr
"Many big names were said to have stalked the property, including a group that counted Mercer Reynolds as a partner. Bolnick declined to identify other bidders for the properties.

But he said Reynolds Plantation garnered interest &#8220;from some of the strongest people in real estate and the golf business that I know.&#8221;

I'm not sure if this plays into the case or not either. However, no matter how you look at it, stalking is not a positive word . Ugh! Makes me think of OJ who loved to golf and how he stalked Nicole and Ron. Then his book "If I Did It" The situation makes me realize that from the outside this might have seemed the perfect place to live, in reality it was far from ideal. *
​

My conclusion:
I do believe every poster makes an important contribution to the possibility that there could be some dots here to connect.

I hope no one thinks that this post is too much repetition ....but I just feel there is a lot to think about contained in each well thought out post. MOO

 

[atthelake]

WELL FINALLY HALLELUJAH sills is talking about raising the reward, why doenst' the family offer one or add to it !!

Or can they? It's not their case it's the City/FBI case now, so maybe that shas something to do with it

just curious, but americans can be bought I've always heard

:gasp: SMH

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[atthelake]

I dont think anyone is blaming the friends/neighbors etc and it's not been discussed overly much either, only broght up a few times IIRC

It plays in , in my mind, with who they are and their lives, past and present possibly

I bristle at the thought of them having to deal with the whole thing, the beheading, the woman they loved floating dead in the water, their neighborhood and fears of not knowing............

I take it you are on Oconee??

No, not Oconee,but local.

A woman in my neighborhood was dead THREE months before she was found deceased in her home . Three days IMHO is quick to call in or follow up for retirees IMHO.

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[Plumeria5]

In memory of Shirley I share this link:

http://www.rpbridge.net/1a00.htm

I have always seen Lucy play bridge on I Love Lucy but never really tried to learn how to play. It seems to be a complicated game and amazing at Shirley's age that she still excelled in it!

 

[gngr~snap]

Aww

In memory of Shirley I share this link:

http://www.rpbridge.net/1a00.htm

I have always seen Lucy play bridge on I Love Lucy but never really tried to learn how to play. It seems to be a complicated game and amazing at Shirley's age that she still excelled in it!

I bet she was a lot like my mom.
Once I was old enough to handle not winning, that woman beat my butt at everything! Checkers, Gin Rummy, Scrabble, Rook, Yahtzee, Boggle... And newspaper crossword puzzles... not even one erasure! Gah!
Masters from Vanderbilt in Library Science with a minor in Russian....
She refused to play poker and I guess she didn't play chess cause she never taught me. We had a Bridge group on our street which she refused to join...

Shirley was obviously so smart! Yet I wonder, how did the perps pull one over on her? I feel like a woman with brains and life experience like she had, it must have been a surprise attack.
Makes me so sad. And to see a Vietnam vet so upset fer finding her... you know you really don't wanna know the details cause you can't bleach your brain.
RIP Mr & Mrs Dermond
Fly high together. : (
Moo
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[Backwoods]

Going to bed, big weekend at the lake, won't be dropping in early alone to get things readied THIS TIME though and will leave when everyone else does instead of hanging around an extra day to tidy up

I'll be checking in when I can, this wont' be far from my mind, be safe all

Wishing you a safe stay, tomkat. Take care.

 

[Backwoods]

...Russell Dermond, his head severed, was found dead in his Carolyn Drive garage on the morning of May 6 when concerned neighbors went to his house. The 88-year-old&#8217;s head has not been found. His manner of death is unknown....

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/22/3111303/sheriff-brutal-savage-probably.html?sp=%2F99%2F100%2F&ihp=1

bbm in the quote above: I'm sure the reporter meant "the cause of his death", not manner (because surely manner is "homicide"). But still -- does this sound a little as if they are backing away from the "cerebral cranial trauma" COD? Or maybe this just means that, as has been reported earlier, it can't be known whether COD was gunshot to the head, blow to the head, etc. I sure hope they are not having to rethink whether he might have been decapitated while alive -- I'd think they'd know for sure, but this, from the same article, made me wonder a little, bbm, just almost sounds as if there might be still a bit of doubt -- but as I said, I doubt it and I hope note:

...The decapitation also factors in to make Sills think at least two assailants took part.


&#8220;That takes a little effort to do that. Even if the (dead) person&#8217;s not alive. And then we have Mrs. Dermond&#8217;s body in the lake five miles away,&#8221; the sheriff said. ...

One thing I'm wondering now is whether this might be one of those crimes where a single perp nutted up and committed murder when caught or cornered at something else devious -- and then called someone in to help get him out of the mess he'd made of things. You know -- son calls father/mother, druggie calls buddy, husband calls wife, brother calls brother, etc. -- that sort of thing. In other words, one perp might have killed, then another or others came in to help with the cover-up?

If that's the case -- maybe somebody in the second category will cave. Sills is saying (as quoted in the same article) a "brutal savage" did this -- here's the accomplice's chance to prove that he/she (or they)"doesn't/don't fit that description". Maybe that's what LE is really hoping for right now.

 

[Bootsctr]

Going to bed, big weekend at the lake, won't be dropping in early alone to get things readied THIS TIME though and will leave when everyone else does instead of hanging around an extra day to tidy up

I'll be checking in when I can, this wont' be far from my mind, be safe all

Be safe tomkat! We'll miss your input. Maybe you'll solve the whole thing by the time you get back. Watch out for suspicious perps and 4-legged critters. :seeya:

 

[Bootsctr]

The Derby is one fat party.

IMO... heaven is sunny spring mornings at any of the horse farms in the Lexington/Versailles area seeing the foals and their moms grazing.

Or, far atop a mountain in the eastern part of the state.

Come visit any time!

*Sigh! Beautiful state that Tennessee, Blue Ridge Mountains and horses. Definitely would love to visit there and Georgia is definitely on my bucket list too.

Hoping California Chrome because the Triple Crown Winner at Belmont Park. It's the longest track at 1 1/2 miles and apparently he has never run that distance before. He's got heart and soul and I'll will be cheering him on from beginning to end. Wish Mr. Dermond and Shirley were still here to watch the final race. It would make a perfect weekend for the killers to be caught this weekend. Wishing some Instant Karma on the low-lifes who took the lives of two elderly people just living their lives and not harming a soul!

 

[Nuvolari]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5F3lvkQQvI

Very interesting.

Point: No signs of sexual assault (on SD). "...fully clothed..." LE implies both corpses found with clothing normal for daytime but not for going to a formal event. How does this fact affect the motive?

LE says of moving SD's corpse to the lake: To buy time. How does moving a body buy time?

PS: Link to Telegraph video's: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thetelegraphmidga&page=2

 

[Cardinal47]

In memory of Shirley I share this link:

http://www.rpbridge.net/1a00.htm

I have always seen Lucy play bridge on I Love Lucy but never really tried to learn how to play. It seems to be a complicated game and amazing at Shirley's age that she still excelled in it!

I have played bridge for years. Never mastering the game. It is full of rules and levels of play.

Shirley not only played bridge but she played Duplicate bridge.

She was a MASTER bridge player.

She must have been very smart and sharp as could be with her duplicate bridge and crossword puzzles and her very clean house.

 

[Foxfire]

How do you reconcile such a high degree of organization involved in this double murder with what is commonly seen in murders in which the perps use or have a meth/molly connection?

The murderers do not appear to have been disorganized individuals. The home, garage and property also indicate the scene was organized. Though Mrs. D's body did eventually surface, removing her from the scene and "placing" her in the lake close to where her body was eventually discovered again indicates organization.

Even the dismemberment, which would be viewed as a gruesome element of a meth/molly connection, was done after death and head removed from the scene.

I'm open, but have difficulty reconciling meth/molly type of perps.

epiphany, I normally only follow cases where psychopaths/sexual predators are indicated. Meth abuse creates psychopathic personalities, imo. Psychopaths don't think like normal folks and can emulate organized, disorganized, and mixed offenders at will. Psychopathic predators are very creative, calculating, deflective, manipulative and will fool even the most experienced and competent homicide investigators.. They are very rapid thinkers, usually of higher intelligence, and are very calculating and cagey..

epiphany, most of us were drawn to websleuths and to missing/murdered persons cases due to a specific case that touched our hearts. The case that touched me was the Meredith Hope Emerson, abduction/rape/murder/decapitation(01/2008-GA).

I began an independent search in an effort to locate her remains on 01/07/2008. On 01/10/2008, after locating Gary Hilton's primary den/ritual grounds/primitive campsite and contacting the local Sheriff's department. A K9 unit & 2 cruisers responded. The three Sheriffs officers that responded had 87 years experience between them.

In a walnut shell, although I had located GMH's underground garbage pile which contained like new clothes; kids, women's, men's, perfume bottles, hair bows, jewelry, suspenders, etc. They perceived GMH to be only a petty thief & drifter. Left the clothes laying on the ground and returned to service.
GMH, is now on FL's death row and has 3 LWOPs in NC & GA..

Meth Connection:
Read my 1st comment # 614 on 05/10/2014, epiphany;
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243163&highlight=shirley+dermond&page=25

 

[Cardinal47]

Just reading along and this caught my eye.

Sheriff Sills is trying to secure more reward money!

WHAT???

Don't families come up with reward money?

I am perplexed. This is a wealthy couple with wealthy children.

I am very confused why the reward isn't huge to find the murderer's of their mother and father.

A brutal murder.

Any thoughts on why the Sheriff is the one scrambling and it's not the kids offering???

That is very strange to me.

 

[Zuri]

I have played bridge for years. Never mastering the game. It is full of rules and levels of play.

Shirley not only played bridge but she played Duplicate bridge.

She was a MASTER bridge player.

She must have been very smart and sharp as could be with her duplicate bridge and crossword puzzles and her very clean house.

IIRC, SD was a graduate of Barnard, so obviously very smart.
Master Bridge player and Duplicate Bridge! Wow. I can play Go Fish and Slap Jack.

 

[OTPTarheel]

You know they have all the phone records which shows all calls, time, durations,and texts. When I had a family member die under suspicious circumstances, IMO, I downloaded the records from Bellsouth and I put together a time line.We paid the phone bill monthly so we could access the records.I knew exactly when the last calls/ texts were made, who made them, and if it was call/ text. And I let folks know I had them. Lots of squirmy folks at the wake.


Sure, the sheriff knows. To the minute. On all phones. He subpoenaed them most likely. He's not saying.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

so now we're back to something more in the lines of organzied crime.......?

and true about missing wife

Morning everyone!:seeya:

I don't think so. They think someone that the Dermonds knew may have tried to extort money out of them. Say they were pressuring them into investing in something they knew was a scam and refused to be a part of it. Or something was going on at RP by someone and the Dermonds didn't like it nor approved.

It really isn't true about the missing wife though. I have no doubt in my mind that a large part of his estate would be made out to Shirley if he passed before her. She certainly would have all the rights in the world to his assets. None of her rights would have been set aside simply because she was missing. She was married to the man for 68 years. So until she was declared legally dead by the courts, which could take many years, the estate would remain in limbo.

I don't think the killer is real close with the victims but has had some kind of dealings with them there where they lived.

IMO