GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 5

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry to be slow with this, but I'll try again for Razz to post a decent map from Goggle Earth of the scene, maybe two. The scene 7 one is higher resolution than the others. The first scene shows the remains at a location upstream from the more detailed description of the actual location.

To consider: The sheriff is consulting with UGA about lake currents and the effects of water being pumped from Sinclair to Oconee during some part of the typical day. This could effect a conclusion regarding where the corpse was placed in the lake initially.

The boat theory seems likely but not absolute.

I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate you doing this for us, Nuvolari.

It really seems more reasonable to me that she was taken by boat. I didn't realize how close that is from their home to where they found her and by water it wouldn't take nearly as long as going by vehicle either. Even if they just took her halfway and she drifted to the spot she surfaced and became tangled in the above surface tree tops.

Plus there is much more risk of being seen if they got out on the roadway. I think they knew if they took her body by vehicle evidence could be left in his vehicle but a boat can be washed down with a pressurized hose and no one thinks a thing about it even if they see someone doing it. Most people at this time are getting their boats ready for the spring and summer.

It just makes more sense that she was dispose of by boat. If he had left through the front entrance via a car there is more of a risk he could have been seen. And then wherever he disposed of her he would have to take her body out of his vehicle then drag it to the bank and get it into deep enough waters where he knew she was sink.

Using a boat in the middle of the night would protect him from being seen and when he got to the spot he wanted to throw her in he would just heave her body over the side. All of this wouldn't take nearly as long nor as much effort if he had used a regular vehicle. Plus the risk of being seen isn't nearly as high.

IMO
 

Good morning FoxFire!

Back in the 70s iirc we had one of those in my hometown. He targeted an elderly woman in her 80s who lived alone. She had been my elementary school teacher. Iirc he was in his late 20s. After torturing, raping, and murdering her he went on to another town (Columbus) about 90 miles away and did it all over again. He was caught and is on death row now iirc. Its been so long ago now but I think he came to her door pretending to want to do yard work and then he forced her back inside of her home.

But let me ask you this since I haven't read your link yet. Don't these kind of predators usually target women that they know live alone? Or have they also murdered others in the home as well?

I have read some about these kind of predators and some of the mental health doctors believe it stems from their childhood and they often have a strong dominant female in their past history that was a love/hate relationship.

IMO
 
Good morning FoxFire!

Back in the 70s iirc we had one of those in my hometown. He targeted an elderly woman in her 80s who lived alone. She had been my elementary school teacher. Iirc he was in his late 20s. After torturing, raping, and murdering her he went on to another town (Columbus) about 90 miles away and did it all over again. He as caught and is on death row now iirc. Its been so long ago now but I think he came to her door pretending to want to do yard work and then he forced her back inside of her home.

But let me ask you this since I haven't read your link yet. Don't these kind of predators usually target women that they know live alone? Or have they also murdered others in the home as well?

I have read some about these kind of predators and some of the mental health doctors believe it stems from their childhood and they often have a strong dominant female in their past history that was a love/hate relationship.

IMO

Mornin Ocean.. Gerontophiles are a rare breed of evil. I edited the post to add this NCJRS study that may answer your questions.. Some have no victim preference; male/female...

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/216550.pdf

Elderly Woman Grabs Rapist by Testicles...
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...F-8&q=elderly woman grabs rapist by testicles
 
How many drownings are normal on this lake per summer? The season is just starting and it is too coincidental that two unusual drownings have already occurred? The realtor, fully dressed with purse and cell phone on dock, was rapidly explained away as illness. Assuming the family did not want a big to do over it. However, as a realtor, had she shown the house next door that is for sale and saw something prior to the murders?

The boater that just drowned, did he have any connection to real estate, the D's, their church, golf? He was fishing in his boat, his boat hit the dock, and he fell out and drowned? Was he ill, sober, why would he fall out?

These drownings ought to make one go awhh, wait a minute. Hope they are being fully investigated. The realtor peeked my interest , however, this second drowning has me worried! Too many accidental drownings in too short of a time frame! IMO
 
I've been keeping up on this case since the first day, but haven't posted.. I just have to say, if some one beheaded one of my family members the absolute last thing I would think (if I even thought of it all), would be a cult!! No way no how would that be one of my first thoughts.. But it was his sons thought right away, why!!!! And Sills most popular case has to do with a cult not far from the Dermonds? No one here knows who the Dermonds knew or associated with or angered at some point. So I'll be on the team that thinks the cult isn't that crazy of an idea.

My goodness! I don't know where my Southern manners are this morning, but Howdy and welcome to the Dermonds' murder thread! :greetings: I'm so glad you posted. Please do keep posting. It's good to read you do think the nuwabian cult could be involved. Like Honeybun said, where's there a little smoke, there's usually a fire.

Did you know that the Dermonds bought the land at GW in 1994 at about the same time as the nuwabian cult? The cult came in Eatonton in 1993 from Brooklyn. They dressed like cowboys (imagine that) and nobody took them serious at first. They built an Egyptian-themed compound called Tama-Re. Interesting how they went from cowboys to Egyptian.

The Dermonds' son, Mark, was murdered in 2000 in Atlanta. It would be interesting to see if the killer had ties to the nuwabian cult. The leader aka Malachi York was arrested in 2002 (Malachi - I almost wanted to type malarkey - I think that's Irish). The Dermonds did not attend the trial. Why? Surely they loved their son even if he had drug problems. Perhaps they didn't want anyone else (murder's family or cult members) attending the trial to be able to recognize their faces in the future.

The leader, Dwight York, lost over a million dollars on account of Sheriff Sills and the FBI. I bet he's still pretty upset over that even though it was several years ago. Just some random thoughts. My apology for the long post when I just intended to welcome you to the thread and thank you for your post.

Anyway, please keep posting. We're open to all theories and thoughts without breaking the rules. I think of Websleuths as an online Vidocq Society. :seeya:
 
This is probably a far fetched thought but, if the perp had in fact killed Mr and Mrs D elsewhere, could he have forgotten the head? Maybe with an adreneline rush going on he loaded the two bodies to return to the home and left without bringing the head back.

I was both afraid and hoping at the same time that the head would show up during the Memorial day holiday weekend. Now, I'm just hoping that it doesn't show up somewhere on Father's day.

There are just so many sick possibilities. I hope they catch this/these little creep(s) soon.

Me too. Father's Day would be a horrible time for the head to be found at the lake. Then we have the 4th of July coming up. But, really any time finding the head at the lake is going to scare everyone. I wonder if LE or the cops who patrol the water are searching the shore lines and hear where Mrs. Dermond's body was found. It would be easier to weight a head down rather than an entire body though.
 
Can't remember a case where there were so many viable theories and possible suspects after almost a month since the horrific crime was committed. Seems, the high profile abduction/murder/decapitation investigation of the Dermonds, is likely going to be a marathon and not a sprint..jmo
 
Me too. Father's Day would be a horrible time for the head to be found at the lake. Then we have the 4th of July coming up. But, really any time finding the head at the lake is going to scare everyone. I wonder if LE or the cops who patrol the water are searching the shore lines and hear where Mrs. Dermond's body was found. It would be easier to weight a head down rather than an entire body though.

BBM for focus:

WARNING GRAPHIC Comment:

I think by now and certainly by Father's Day or 7/4 a finding would be only skull.

Has anyone seen any reports or articles of update on the case since the long Memorial Day weekend? Things seem very quiet.
 
My goodness! I don't know where my Southern manners are this morning, but Howdy and welcome to the Dermonds' murder thread! :greetings: I'm so glad you posted. Please do keep posting. It's good to read you do think the nuwabian cult could be involved. Like Honeybun said, where's there a little smoke, there's usually a fire.

Did you know that the Dermonds bought the land at GW in 1994 at about the same time as the nuwabian cult? The cult came in Eatonton in 1993 from Brooklyn. They dressed like cowboys (imagine that) and nobody took them serious at first. They built an Egyptian-themed compound called Tama-Re. Interesting how they went from cowboys to Egyptian.

The Dermonds' son, Mark, was murdered in 2000 in Atlanta. It would be interesting to see if the killer had ties to the nuwabian cult. The leader aka Malachi York was arrested in 2002 (Malachi - I almost wanted to type malarkey - I think that's Irish). The Dermonds did not attend the trial. Why? Surely they loved their son even if he had drug problems. Perhaps they didn't want anyone else (murder's family or cult members) attending the trial to be able to recognize their faces in the future.

The leader, Dwight York, lost over a million dollars on account of Sheriff Sills and the FBI. I bet he's still pretty upset over that even though it was several years ago. Just some random thoughts. My apology for the long post when I just intended to welcome you to the thread and thank you for your post.

Anyway, please keep posting. We're open to all theories and thoughts without breaking the rules. I think of Websleuths as an online Vidocq Society. :seeya:

Morning Bootsie!

Yes, that is one of the reasons I love WS, among many other reasons, is everyone has a right to state their own theory.

Just because some do not agree with the cult theory never means we think those posters don't have a right to their own opinion. A lot of people don't agree with my opinion about this case either but that does not upset me and I don't ever take it personally. Each of us has the theory we do based on our own thought processes and what makes the most sense to each of us.

And I say this respectfully, "I" just don't see any evidence that these are cult connected killings.

Why would buying land at GW in 1994 be significant? The group weren't at GW buying land, correct? They (Dermonds) didn't even build until 1999 iirc. Don't you think Sills would know by now if Michael's murderer had any ties whatsoever to the NC? He has discounted that this had anything to do with S&Rs murder. He has reasons for ruling that out, imo.

And why take the head of Russ? Wouldn't they want to leave the head there like others do who leave messages? With the torso in one place and the head cutoff and laying away from the corpse for the shock value? I could understand I suppose if the head was taken to be mailed later on to Sills or the children. But we are going into a month now and the head has not been found, sent or located.

Tomkat iirc said the NC had murdered others before. I haven't read all the material on the NC but if so, how were they murdered? Is it the same pattern in S&Rs murder?

And why go to all the trouble of disposing Shirely's body out in deep water? Wouldn't they want Sills to know immediately that two vulnerable people had been murdered in his county?

I asked this before but I don't think it was ever answered but has any cult or even imprisoned inmates murdered someone not even connected to them to get revenge on a Sheriff that helped put them in prison? And really it was the DA who saw to it he was imprisoned. And why wait over a decade to even do it. The Dermonds have lived there for many many years.

To consider the NC angle we have to disregard everything the lead police investigating agency has told us. He said very early on that he had evidence supporting that this murderer has some type of familiarity with the victims themselves. We would have to believe that the very man that brought down the NC, and probably knows them better than anyone, isn't smart enough to figure this out, even with 40 years of law enforcement experience.

Imo, when a murderer takes the head with him and tries to hide a body in a deep body of water they are desperately trying to hide evidence to protect themselves from being detected.

Imo, only those who know they can be directly linked to the victims personally takes the time and effort to do that. I just don't see that being done by any group no matter who they are ( cult, hit man, cartel etc.) that has no affiliation at all with the murdered victims personally.

But this only my opinion and nothing more.

IMO
 
BBM for focus:

WARNING GRAPHIC Comment:

I think by now and certainly by Father's Day or 7/4 a finding would be only skull.

Has anyone seen any reports or articles of update on the case since the long Memorial Day weekend? Things seem very quiet.

BBM

unless the head has been preserved in a freezer?
 
This case reminds me of one of John Sanford's PREY novels. Just can't remember which one. I read them on planes because what is happening in the book is much worse than any turbulence we could experience in flight! : O
 
As Bootsctr said, 'where there is smoke there is usually fire'..
Just when we thought we had the inferno under control, an unsuspecting backdraft of sorts occurred, imo;

Journalist Christian Boone of the AJC released this; 'In The Heat of the Night', hot off the press news article; "Sheriff Investigating Elderly Couple's Murder No Stranger To The Spotlight"...
http://legalpronews.findlaw.com/article/7cb33392334ddf4e433f42f5a1e7c457#.U4nrgfldUud

This multi structure blaze has now escalated to an inferno which is out of control; a conflagration. A conflagration that demands a request for mutual aid; a help call for additional available FD resources. Many Fire Chiefs are hesitant to request mutual aid, usually rationalizing this decision by saying, "We've been doing it this way for over 40 years and haven't needed any help before"..

An ole FD saying; 'the horses have been long gone, but the horse manure lingers longer'...

Sheriff Sills, "Please request the additional investigative resources of the GBI"..
Five years from now you or I don't want to be asking; "What If, or Why"?

After 5 years, notorious crime still haunts | www.myajc.com
http://www.myajc.com/news/news/after-5-years-notorious-crime-still-haunts/nTyq3/
 
Except they're not true southerners. They lived in jersey for how long? Majority of their lives? I'll have to go back and check. But I grew up not far from there and been in GA more than 12 years myself and I've not adopted the southern way of life at all. It's all still very foreign to me.

Georgia is a melting pot except in the very small country towns

I don't know what southern life means except battling the dang gnats and humidity LOL

I dont' drink tea and I dont' invite ANYONE into my home, I dont' like people coming down my driveway that I don't know, the world and Georgia included is a plethora of nutcases

I dont' hear HEY YA"LL on every corner, and ya'll is used all across the nation anyway

I don't do or say alot of things that people consider southern

except.......when we talk bad about someone it's usually followed by

Bless his heart :floorlaugh:
 
How many drownings are normal on this lake per summer? The season is just starting and it is too coincidental that two unusual drownings have already occurred? The realtor, fully dressed with purse and cell phone on dock, was rapidly explained away as illness. Assuming the family did not want a big to do over it. However, as a realtor, had she shown the house next door that is for sale and saw something prior to the murders?

The boater that just drowned,
did he have any connection to real estate, the D's, their church, golf? He was fishing in his boat, his boat hit the dock, and he fell out and drowned? Was he ill, sober, why would he fall out?

These drownings ought to make one go awhh, wait a minute. Hope they are being fully investigated. The realtor peeked my interest , however, this second drowning has me worried! Too many accidental drownings in too short of a time frame! IMO

I agree, this sounds like more than a coincidence. I probably missed it, but does anyone have a link to the realtor's drowning? :twocents:

IMHO
 
This case reminds me of one of John Sanford's PREY novels. Just can't remember which one. I read them on planes because what is happening in the book is much worse than any turbulence we could experience in flight! : O

Fasten your seatbelt, OTPTarheel.. I'm afraid we're in for a very turbulent ride, imo...

Rules of Prey - John Sandford
www.johnsandford.org/prey01.html
John Sandford
Rules of Prey(Lucas Davenport Series #1) Synopsis Preview. The murderer was intelligent. He was a member of the bar. He derived rules based on professional examination of actual ...
 
Fasten your seatbelt, OTPTarheel.. I'm afraid we're in for a very turbulent ride, imo...

Rules of Prey - John Sandford
www.johnsandford.org/prey01.html
John Sandford
Rules of Prey(Lucas Davenport Series #1) Synopsis Preview. The murderer was intelligent. He was a member of the bar. He derived rules based on professional examination of actual ...


Thanks! I'll have to buy it again. I trade them in at the used bookstore and buy Agatha Christie for my mama.
 
Serial Sexual Predator of the Elderly; 'Gerontophilia'

(Study of Elderly Abuse and their Offenders)
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/216550.pdf

(Example of a Montgomery,AL Sexual Predator/Gerontophile) 05/08/2014)
http://www.wsfa.com/story/25471160/...argeted-elderly-women-sentenced-in-montgomery

I can't find her age and I don't think that case is at all like the Dermond case. He was the neighborhood peeping tom who should have been put away much earlier.

On the subject of elderly abuse that most often happens in nursing homes with a lot of dementia.

But when have we ever heard of a woman being killed and her husbands head removed during an elderly sexual assult? I just don't think that's what happened.

I still can't get over all the movement this killer went through to get bodies here and there. He/they had to have all the time in the world with no disturbances at all.

Pardon my French but this one is a real *advertiser censored* scratcher!
 
Thanks! I'll have to buy it again. I trade them in at the used bookstore and buy Agatha Christie for my mama.

Irony; Iran arrests 'Agatha Christie serial killer' - The Guardian
www.theguardian.com › News › World news › Iran

May 21, 2009 - Police in Iran believe they have caught the country's first female serial killer and are claiming she has disclosed a literary inspiration behind her...


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/may/21/iran-agatha-christie-serial-kiler
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
136
Guests online
3,364
Total visitors
3,500

Forum statistics

Threads
602,732
Messages
18,146,029
Members
231,516
Latest member
JustinCaseBreakGlass
Back
Top