GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 5

[wildebeest]

I want to know who was in their will; what they were leaving to whom behind and who would benefit financially from their deaths. It's in a nutshell to me. Someone couldn't wait. I'm firm on this.

Cherry---I'm still with you on this one!!! Why, would a family member suggest that LE look to the Nuwabian cult for a POI??? :twocents:

IMHO

 

[Bootsctr]

Morning Bootsie!

Yes, that is one of the reasons I love WS, among many other reasons, is everyone has a right to state their own theory.

Just because some do not agree with the cult theory never means we think those posters don't have a right to their own opinion. A lot of people don't agree with my opinion about this case either but that does not upset me and I don't ever take it personally. Each of us has the theory we do based on our own thought processes and what makes the most sense to each of us.

And I say this respectfully, "I" just don't see any evidence that these are cult connected killings.

Why would buying land at GW in 1994 be significant? The group weren't at GW buying land, correct? They (Dermonds) didn't even build until 1999 iirc. Don't you think Sills would know by now if Michael's murderer had any ties whatsoever to the NC? He has discounted that this had anything to do with S&Rs murder. He has reasons for ruling that out, imo.

And why take the head of Russ? Wouldn't they want to leave the head there like others do who leave messages? With the torso in one place and the head cutoff and laying away from the corpse for the shock value? I could understand I suppose if the head was taken to be mailed later on to Sills or the children. But we are going into a month now and the head has not been found, sent or located.

Tomkat iirc said the NC had murdered others before. I haven't read all the material on the NC but if so, how were they murdered? Is it the same pattern in S&Rs murder?

And why go to all the trouble of disposing Shirely's body out in deep water? Wouldn't they want Sills to know immediately that two vulnerable people had been murdered in his county?

I asked this before but I don't think it was ever answered but has any cult or even imprisoned inmates murdered someone not even connected to them to get revenge on a Sheriff that helped put them in prison? And really it was the DA who saw to it he was imprisoned. And why wait over a decade to even do it. The Dermonds have lived there for many many years.

To consider the NC angle we have to disregard everything the lead police investigating agency has told us. He said very early on that he had evidence supporting that this murderer has some type of familiarity with the victims themselves. We would have to believe that the very man that brought down the NC, and probably knows them better than anyone, isn't smart enough to figure this out, even with 40 years of law enforcement experience.

Imo, when a murderer takes the head with him and tries to hide a body in a deep body of water they are desperately trying to hide evidence to protect themselves from being detected.

Imo, only those who know they can be directly linked to the victims personally takes the time and effort to do that. I just don't see that being done by any group no matter who they are ( cult, hit man, cartel etc.) that has no affiliation at all with the murdered victims personally.

But this only my opinion and nothing more.

IMO

Good morning OBE! Hope you don't mind me abbreviating. I like Bootsie too! Please know that all of your posts are respectful in my opinion and very informative.

You are correct in that the cult was not buying land at GW, only Mr. D purchased his lot in 1994. The only connection I find with 1994 is that they both showed up in Putnam count around the same time, the cult actually only a bit before Mr. & Mrs. D came and bought the GW lot. Nothing really suspicious about that I agree except maybe the Dermonds had some interaction with the cult if they were passing around fliers, etc. visiting homes in Eatonton, seeking employment and were employed by local businesses, etc.

No, I don't know for a fact that Sheriff Sills has any link to the son's death with the murderer being a cult member. He probably has checked it out and eliminated that possibility - although he did want to question the children and find out more about the Dermonds and he did go to Atlanta which I presume was investigating more about the son's murder. You're right - still nothing to make the assumption the cult was involved.

The article that was quoted did not mention how the two women were murdered and I haven't been able to find out the method by which the women were killed either. However, the murders attributed to the cult members does point to the fact that they were in fact dangerous and a threat to society and were capable of killing someone. But again, that doesn't mean the cult had anything to do with the Dermonds' murders.

Nothing about revenge on the sheriff has been reported after the leader was imprisoned, so again you have put me in check. But, there's the saying "revenge is a dish best served cold."

Old saying from the Mafiosi in Sicily. Tells that the best payback is the one that comes with planning, and that brings the most horrendous pain to your enemies when they are not expecting and are just enjoying the fruits of all the dishonor they brought upon you. One must wait so he can really inflict pain to those who wronged him. Careful planning is necessary so your enemies will suffer terribly, but you won't be harmed by the Law or by your enemies' allies.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Revenge+is+a+dish+best+served+cold

I'm sure Sheriff Sills' home is like a compound. He probably has guard dogs, Rottweilers, Dobermans, or German shepherds and we know he has guns. Perhaps one of the cult members felt like Sills had taken down their leader and put him in jail and the best way to exact a painful revenge was to kill someone Sills was supposed to be protecting. I know I'm s-t-re-t-c-h-i-n-g.

I don't think anyone wanted Sills to immediately know that the Dermonds were murdered and they were able to accomplish that feat as we well know. They had at least 48 hours of getaway time. Again, not necessarily a cult member, and very likely a serial killer.

Sills said Mrs. D's body was "placed" where she was found. Not sure what that means if anything. But, with the way the water flows in Lake Oconee and the dam, the killer could have possibly just dumped her off the Dermonds' pier and she floated to where she was found? It sure would make it a lot simpler than taking a boat and driving it around a lake that is known to have a lot of fisherman that fish at night. Again, I can't link this to the cult. You've put me in check again, and I say that with the greatest respect and admiration, please know that. :loveyou:

Taking the victim's head is very bizarre to me, but it was done to taunt LE and that is just my opinion. It could certainly have a different meaning or mean nothing at all.

I am in total agree with your statement respectfully bolded by me for emphasis in your last paragraph. I just think there could be a personal link to the Dermonds and a cult member (a housekeeper, maintenance personnel, guard, lawn guy, etc) and the Dermonds didn't even know they were a part of the cult since it was basically dissolved by Sills in 2002 with the arrest of their leader. This is just my opinion and I may have to eat my words, but that's okay too.

Thank you so much for your response, and my thoughts regarding the cult and the Dermonds is pure speculation. :seeya:

 

[noZme]

Response to honeybun. No. not from her own dock.

Attn middle GA posters: I started a thread in "Crimes " about the officer who was killed today in Griffin.

 

[Foxfire]

It's very hard to work with somebody you don't respect. So I give Sills a bye on this one!

I think he has more help than he needs right now!

Honeybun1807, I honor and respect your opinion but disagree. The GBI
of today is not the same organization that it was a decade ago. I follow cases that they investigate very closely and have been very critical of the GBI in the past.
In the past few years, I have been very impressed with their professionalism and closure rate in investigations. Actually, much more impressed with them than the FBI's performance as of late..

The experienced and well trained GBI Special Agents are much more familiar with the GA culture, crime/criminal activity, etc., than the FBI, imo. This insight is very important and could make the difference in a solved case or a cold case, imo.

The Jorelys Rivera murder investigation by the GBI changed my view and sealed the deal for me..

(Read page 3 of the Canton PD's response before the GBI's arrival)

http://archive.org/stream/284469-in...ion-report-the-jorelys-rivera-murder_djvu.txt

 

[Hickory Born]

My goodness! I don't know where my Southern manners are this morning, but Howdy and welcome to the Dermonds' murder thread! :greetings: I'm so glad you posted. Please do keep posting. It's good to read you do think the nuwabian cult could be involved. Like Honeybun said, where's there a little smoke, there's usually a fire.

Did you know that the Dermonds bought the land at GW in 1994 at about the same time as the nuwabian cult? The cult came in Eatonton in 1993 from Brooklyn. They dressed like cowboys (imagine that) and nobody took them serious at first. They built an Egyptian-themed compound called Tama-Re. Interesting how they went from cowboys to Egyptian.

The Dermonds' son, Mark, was murdered in 2000 in Atlanta. It would be interesting to see if the killer had ties to the nuwabian cult. The leader aka Malachi York was arrested in 2002 (Malachi - I almost wanted to type malarkey - I think that's Irish). The Dermonds did not attend the trial. Why? Surely they loved their son even if he had drug problems. Perhaps they didn't want anyone else (murder's family or cult members) attending the trial to be able to recognize their faces in the future.

The leader, Dwight York, lost over a million dollars on account of Sheriff Sills and the FBI. I bet he's still pretty upset over that even though it was several years ago. Just some random thoughts. My apology for the long post when I just intended to welcome you to the thread and thank you for your post.

Anyway, please keep posting. We're open to all theories and thoughts without breaking the rules. I think of Websleuths as an online Vidocq Society. :seeya:

BBM.
Please forgive if this has been discussed, I have not completely caught up on postings. Where did it say the Dermonds did not attend a trial? Will you please post a link.

 

[tomkat]

My father is from the north and my mother from South GA

you can imagine our meals. LOL, I did nOT grow up on only southern foods, my grandfather had a grocery store in south ga, my mothers father, so THEY did and I'd get my sugar cane "candy" so to speak and pink eye purple hulls with bacon at their house

At my parents house, it was a plethora of whatever my dad brought to the family from his roots and my mothers

I'm "over the hill" and just started eating collards and turnips about a year ago, so I think the true Georgians are those who have or live near farms in the rural areas as did my grandparents

Our area (i live just outside of Putnam have a lakehouse there) and we have people from all over the world here and the influx is from the nearby AFB who some travel a hundred miles to work from Putnam to Dodge Co and some further

anyway, but I don't even know how to say Pe CON anymore, is it peecon, peecan, pe CON', or Pe CAN' anymore LOL


haha, I'm all mixed up!

But GW was probalby not "southern" so to speak, IMO, i'd like to see where they are all from, many people come to the lakes in GA from all over to buy a second home or retire, so I'm sure the same is in GW

But yes, by location, I am southern, LOL, I dont' have a drawl, maybe more than not, but you'd be amazed at what a few miles makes in how peoples slang, inflection and accent differ, its' AMAzing, i even like to hear the southern drawl, like some from up north do

I don't think wording in GA is different, I think it depends on the individual but phrases are different here than in the north

Good chatting with you !
:seeya:

fftopic:

I was six months old when we moved from the NE corner Mississippi so dad could to go to school in Chicago. But my dad's heart was always in the south! We traveled home a couple of times a month. Every summer as long as he was alive August was our month in Mississippi. Reuninions and visiting with family. I grew up with turnip greens for supper. So I know every country saying known to man! I can turn up anyone sweet with my 'sayings'. Now to my point..Oh my lord!:bowdown: I laughed when you said,'you can say anything as long as you punctuate it with a 'bless their heart'! Now,I know your a true southern gal!

I read faithfully as I am able the posts on this thread. Most of the time I read off line. Thanks to each of you for your thoughts. I am following the tweets of several of the people covering this case.If I read any news I will post.

 

[Peppery]

Holy (#&%#! Surely these people are on some kind of watch list. Please Lord let them be on a watch list.

"The threat was not idle. Cult members began to publish home addresses and phone numbers of public officials and local reporters — and even photographs and information about their spouses and children, including Sills' 8-year-old son. That got the sheriff's goat.

"I've had my throat cut, my *advertiser censored* whupped, been shot and dragged by automobiles — just about everything," he says. "But I didn't want anybody messing with my kid."

It mentions the murder of 2 New Jersey women. Curious as to how they were murdered. BBL!

Dwight York

BBM

Umm, what??????

 

[tlcya]

snipped for focus


Sometimes the databanks in county recorders office are not entirely 100% accurate.
Maybe we could make better sense of the transaction if we could see THE DEEDS THEMSELVES.
Maybe actually a transfer to a trust?

A link to the pdf of both deeds, pls.:seeya:
Anyone?

IMO yes, this. He individually gifted it to himself as trustee of his own trust. very common. He = grantor and grantee

 

[tomkat]

Shouldn't there have been a Grantor when he purchased it? Or am I not understanding?

Grantor was someone else when he bought it, dont' recall the name
Russell j dermond was the grantee in may 1994

same month, Russell j dermond was grantor to russell j dermond as a "GIFT"

I've never seen that before, so maybe it was a mistake to begin with and had to be changed

but WHY DID IT MATTER if it was a gift or not, the land,

UNLESS someone gave him the land, not they'd have just changed the originally tax info

IDK , i dont' get it,

litig8er??!! anyone a RE attorney on here?

 

[tomkat]

I want to know who was in their will; what they were leaving to whom behind and who would benefit financially from their deaths. It's in a nutshell to me. Someone couldn't wait. I'm firm on this.

I GOTCHA cherrybomb!! I keep saying, "someone wanted them dead" and I think like you, whoever was, didnt' want to wait

 

[Treelights]

BBM.
Please forgive if this has been discussed, I have not completely caught up on postings. Where did it say the Dermonds did not attend a trial? Will you please post a link.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/c...n-mystery-security-camera-wasnt-son-tells-ajc

" The family’s only previous brush with violence came in 2000, when the couple’s oldest son, Mark Dermond, was killed while trying to buy crack cocaine in Atlanta. Neither Keith Dermond or investigators believe there’s any connection.
“It was so long ago. My parents didn’t even attend the trial” of Mark Dermond’s killer, his brother said. “It doesn’t make any sense.” "

 

[jggordo]

I want to know who was in their will; what they were leaving to whom behind and who would benefit financially from their deaths. It's in a nutshell to me. Someone couldn't wait. I'm firm on this.

I had asked in an earlier thread and don't think it was responded to. Does anyone locally know if GA is a state where a will, once filed in probate is considered public document. If so has it been filed?

Has Mr. D's CPA been debriefed on any accounts receivable on loans and previous sales of assets? The sale of the boat, when and was there a lien or how is it titled now?

JMO's

 

[OTPTarheel]

My husband is double Sicilian from NY.
Neither he nor his family was/ is involved in the Mafia. He says historically
Mrs. D would have been off limits unless she was there and wasn't supposed to be ...as the killer knew her routine, and is was "unavoidable" as she could ID the killer.

I agree --revenge is a dish best served cold, just like Emily Thorne.

 

[tomkat]

ANd Bootsctr, the fact is, no body KNOWS ANYTHING really

SO, it could be ANYTHING

The fact is, there is some crazy dung flying around this town

Could be simply a serial killer, WHO KNOWS at this point, who can say ANTHING for sure

I find it interesting the timeline, the cult purchase/dermond purchase, the death of son, the move of Dermonds at or near his TOD, not attending sons trial, left ATL,

DIDN"T WE READ that RD did NOT play golf? Or was that just recent that he hasn't been? started to say after 20 years in their chatahoochee home they may have decided it was time to play golf, at 74? or was that a golf community too

Maybe he just retired the reason he came to GW, maybe they got flack from the neighbors about their son, maybe he lived with them, they had purchased their lot in GW 1994, before the son was murdered, but when did they BUILD? 2000 or 2001? sold in fulton 1999? Son was in ATL, FULTON county GA

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-supreme-court/1185576.html

would like to know WHO all these people are that were involved in this drug transaction and where they are now

Just trying to find or rule out ANY connections, IF ANY

Good morning OBE! Hope you don't mind me abbreviating. I like Bootsie too! Please know that all of your posts are respectful in my opinion and very informative.

You are correct in that the cult was not buying land at GW, only Mr. D purchased his lot in 1994. The only connection I find with 1994 is that they both showed up in Putnam count around the same time, the cult actually only a bit before Mr. & Mrs. D came and bought the GW lot. Nothing really suspicious about that I agree except maybe the Dermonds had some interaction with the cult if they were passing around fliers, etc. visiting homes in Eatonton, seeking employment and were employed by local businesses, etc.

No, I don't know for a fact that Sheriff Sills has any link to the son's death with the murderer being a cult member. He probably has checked it out and eliminated that possibility - although he did want to question the children and find out more about the Dermonds and he did go to Atlanta which I presume was investigating more about the son's murder. You're right - still nothing to make the assumption the cult was involved.

The article that was quoted did not mention how the two women were murdered and I haven't been able to find out the method by which the women were killed either. However, the murders attributed to the cult members does point to the fact that they were in fact dangerous and a threat to society and were capable of killing someone. But again, that doesn't mean the cult had anything to do with the Dermonds' murders.

Nothing about revenge on the sheriff has been reported after the leader was imprisoned, so again you have put me in check. But, there's the saying "revenge is a dish best served cold."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Revenge+is+a+dish+best+served+cold

I'm sure Sheriff Sills' home is like a compound. He probably has guard dogs, Rottweilers, Dobermans, or German shepherds and we know he has guns. Perhaps one of the cult members felt like Sills had taken down their leader and put him in jail and the best way to exact a painful revenge was to kill someone Sills was supposed to be protecting. I know I'm s-t-re-t-c-h-i-n-g.

I don't think anyone wanted Sills to immediately know that the Dermonds were murdered and they were able to accomplish that feat as we well know. They had at least 48 hours of getaway time. Again, not necessarily a cult member, and very likely a serial killer.

Sills said Mrs. D's body was "placed" where she was found. Not sure what that means if anything. But, with the way the water flows in Lake Oconee and the dam, the killer could have possibly just dumped her off the Dermonds' pier and she floated to where she was found? It sure would make it a lot simpler than taking a boat and driving it around a lake that is known to have a lot of fisherman that fish at night. Again, I can't link this to the cult. You've put me in check again, and I say that with the greatest respect and admiration, please know that. :loveyou:

Taking the victim's head is very bizarre to me, but it was done to taunt LE and that is just my opinion. It could certainly have a different meaning or mean nothing at all.

I am in total agree with your statement respectfully bolded by me for emphasis in your last paragraph. I just think there could be a personal link to the Dermonds and a cult member (a housekeeper, maintenance personnel, guard, lawn guy, etc) and the Dermonds didn't even know they were a part of the cult since it was basically dissolved by Sills in 2002 with the arrest of their leader. This is just my opinion and I may have to eat my words, but that's okay too.

Thank you so much for your response, and my thoughts regarding the cult and the Dermonds is pure speculation. :seeya:

 

[tomkat]

IF somone wasn't initially after SD, then I agree, she had to be offed as she was a witness

but why carry her off or put her somewhere other than in the floor too, unless she had run down to the dock and they got her?

IDK, weird still

My husband is double Sicilian from NY.
Neither he nor his family was/ is involved in the Mafia. He says historically
Mrs. D would have been off limits unless she was there and wasn't supposed to be ...as the killer knew her routine, and is was "unavoidable" as she could ID the killer.

I agree --revenge is a dish best served cold, just like Emily Thorne.

 

[tlcya]

Grantor was someone else when he bought it, dont' recall the name
Russell j dermond was the grantee in may 1994

same month, Russell j dermond was grantor to russell j dermond as a "GIFT"

I've never seen that before, so maybe it was a mistake to begin with and had to be changed

but WHY DID IT MATTER if it was a gift or not, the land,

UNLESS someone gave him the land, not they'd have just changed the originally tax info

IDK , i dont' get it,

litig8er??!! anyone a RE attorney on here?

usually when someone already has a trust they want to title a propetry into they simply buy it as that trust. This makes me wonder if he bought the place, the trust was created to hold assets and so he then gifted it to the trust (himself trustee) to avoid some sort of tax penalty.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I want to know who was in their will; what they were leaving to whom behind and who would benefit financially from their deaths. It's in a nutshell to me. Someone couldn't wait. I'm firm on this.

I would have weighed that option too if these crimes didn't happen the way they have.

Family members who murder family members for financial gain don't remove heads for there is no need. They leave everything or have everything left intact so the deaths can be proven where a death certificate can be issued quickly on the victims they kill or have killed by someone else so the Estate process can be opened quickly.

And families who are involved do not hide the bodies of their victims in deep water either hoping they are never found and sadly many bodies that are put in deep water by their murderer are never found at all.

So why would it be necessary to dispose of Shirley when all that would do is make the Estate remain in limbo. Shirley would be classified as only 'missing' and it takes many many years for a Judge to finally declare someone deceased especially when there is nothing supporting the victim has died. For all the Judge would know Shirley could have gone crazy and did this herself to Russ. The way a missing person is declared deceased is based on the many years where no one has heard from the person and they have never made contact with anyone after they disappeared.

So how would that help the murderer if they were wanting to gain financial assets? Shirley was most assuredly a big part in either Will. Her rights to assets would not be pushed aside simply because she was classified as 'missing' nor would any assets in her name be given to anyone until a declaration of death was made many years later.........sometimes up to 5-7 years later. If Shirley's remains had remained missing the children wouldn't even be able to even rent the home out much less sell it to anyone. It was her home too and I am sure Russ had stipulated that she could reside in the home for the rest of her life if he died before she did.

I just don't see a motive for any of this family to do this against their aging parents. The way it happened is totally counterproductive to it being a family out for financial gain and these aren't stupid children by any means.

JMO though

 

[Litig8ter]

Grantor was someone else when he bought it, dont' recall the name
Russell j dermond was the grantee in may 1994

same month, Russell j dermond was grantor to russell j dermond as a "GIFT"

I've never seen that before, so maybe it was a mistake to begin with and had to be changed

but WHY DID IT MATTER if it was a gift or not, the land,

UNLESS someone gave him the land, not they'd have just changed the originally tax info

IDK , i dont' get it,

litig8er??!! anyone a RE attorney on here?

I would have to see the deed, but a guess would be that he gifted to himself as trustee of a revokable trust. That way the property bypasses probate at the time of his death and goes straight to the beneficiaries of the trust. Can also save on estate taxes, which were a bigger concern in 1994 than today. Not an unusual step for someone with the ability to own a $1,000,000 home.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I had asked in an earlier thread and don't think it was responded to. Does anyone locally know if GA is a state where a will, once filed in probate is considered public document. If so has it been filed?

Has Mr. D's CPA been debriefed on any accounts receivable on loans and previous sales of assets? The sale of the boat, when and was there a lien or how is it titled now?

JMO's

I believe it is made public once the Will has been executed and opened.

My father had his Will in the courthouse safe for many years. He personally gave it to the Probate Judge who signed on the outside envelope that he had received it and when along with his signature. I knew the Judge had the original in his possession and since I was the Executrix of my father's Will the Judge gave it to me to open the Estate. Until his death though it remained a private matter. I don't know if it was publicized when I opened the Estate or after the Estate had been finalized and closed though. I have never checked to see.

IMO

 

[tlcya]

anyone who is in possession of the Will of an individual who has died, must bring the Will to the Probate Court for filing. The Will is probated in the Probate Court in the county where the deceased established residency.

in my experience, once the will has been filed with the court it is a public record. I file wills and open probates all the time. That court file can be viewed by anyone who requests it and copies can be purchased. The only time a court document is not available to the public IME is if it is under seal. An act which requires an order from a judge.