GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 5

[oceanblueeyes]

Fasten your seatbelt, OTPTarheel.. I'm afraid we're in for a very turbulent ride, imo...

Rules of Prey - John Sandford
www.johnsandford.org/prey01.html
John Sandford
Rules of Prey(Lucas Davenport Series #1) Synopsis Preview. The murderer was intelligent. He was a member of the bar. He derived rules based on professional examination of actual ...

I have felt from the very beginning of this case that the murderer is intelligent, meticulous, and organized. If he is ever apprehended I expect it to become known that he has been this way all of his life. I think he will be a person with a college degree and will be a professional himself in some manner whether he is a doctor, lawyer, CEO, business owner, or stock broker..etc. He is someone who has fit right in within the community he resides in. He could even have a degree in criminology. He is 'one' of them, imo.

However; unlike the killer you have linked, I do think he had a personal motive against both Dermonds for doing this.

But he is smart enough to know that hiding and separating body evidence gives him a much better chance of not being detected.

IMO

 

[Cardinal47]

This is probably a far fetched thought but, if the perp had in fact killed Mr and Mrs D elsewhere, could he have forgotten the head? Maybe with an adreneline rush going on he loaded the two bodies to return to the home and left without bringing the head back.

I was both afraid and hoping at the same time that the head would show up during the Memorial day holiday weekend. Now, I'm just hoping that it doesn't show up somewhere on Father's day.

There are just so many sick possibilities. I hope they catch this/these little creep(s) soon.

If those are YOUR fears can you imagine the fears of the family and locals. LE is probably in high alert just waiting for THE call!

And lets face it stress of that kind is not good for the body. Think of the children and grandchildren thinking of that every single day. Think of the local residents each time they go out for a boat ride or open a garbage bin.

Think of the local Sheriffs office waiting for that phone call to come in...somebody found IT!

That's a lot of stress on a whole lot of good people. But who exactly is the target???

Could this be what this sick SOB wants and lives for???

 

[Treelights]

I agree, this sounds like more than a coincidence. I probably missed it, but does anyone have a link to the realtor's drowning? :twocents:

IMHO

http://www.ajc.com/news/ap/georgia/autopsy-shows-woman-drowned-in-lake-sinclair/nftRq/

 

[OTPTarheel]

https://gbi.georgia.gov/cases/unsolved-homicide


I went to the GBI site to see if there were any missing persons that were elderly in GA. Maybe a pattern...Very interesting. Unsolved homicides, unidentified victims, and some very old cases I hadn't thought about in years.

 

[MizStery]

Georgia is a melting pot except in the very small country towns
<snipped>

except.......when we talk bad about someone it's usually followed by

Bless his heart :floorlaugh:

fftopic:

I was six months old when we moved from the NE corner Mississippi so dad could to go to school in Chicago. But my dad's heart was always in the south! We traveled home a couple of times a month. Every summer as long as he was alive August was our month in Mississippi. Reuninions and visiting with family. I grew up with turnip greens for supper. So I know every country saying known to man! I can turn up anyone sweet with my 'sayings'. Now to my point..Oh my lord!:bowdown: I laughed when you said,'you can say anything as long as you punctuate it with a 'bless their heart'! Now,I know your a true southern gal!

I read faithfully as I am able the posts on this thread. Most of the time I read off line. Thanks to each of you for your thoughts. I am following the tweets of several of the people covering this case.If I read any news I will post.

 

[Cardinal47]

As Bootsctr said, 'where there is smoke there is usually fire'..
Just when we thought we had the inferno under control, an unsuspecting backdraft of sorts occurred, imo;

Journalist Christian Boone of the AJC released this; 'In The Heat of the Night', hot off the press news article; "Sheriff Investigating Elderly Couple's Murder No Stranger To The Spotlight"...
http://legalpronews.findlaw.com/article/7cb33392334ddf4e433f42f5a1e7c457#.U4nrgfldUud

This multi structure blaze has now escalated to an inferno which is out of control; a conflagration. A conflagration that demands a request for mutual aid; a help call for additional available FD resources. Many Fire Chiefs are hesitant to request mutual aid, usually rationalizing this decision by saying, "We've been doing it this way for over 40 years and haven't needed any help before"..

An ole FD saying; 'the horses have been long gone, but the horse manure lingers longer'...

Sheriff Sills, "Please request the additional investigative resources of the GBI"..
Five years from now you or I don't want to be asking; "What If, or Why"?

After 5 years, notorious crime still haunts | www.myajc.com
http://www.myajc.com/news/news/after-5-years-notorious-crime-still-haunts/nTyq3/

Just to be clear:

As Bootsctr said

"My goodness! I don't know where my Southern manners are this morning, but Howdy and welcome to the Dermonds' murder thread! I'm so glad you posted. Please do keep posting. It's good to read you do think the nuwabian cult could be involved. Like Honeybun said, where's there a little smoke, there's usually a fire. "

Honestly I can't fault Sills in not bringing in GBI. They would do nothing when Sills needed them. He has lots of GOOD resources and he is using them. Sour grapes on GBI for thinking they should be asked again.

Their day in the sun vanished when they failed to do nothing when Jackson and Abernathy came to Georgia to elevate a monster...YORK!

Sills stood his ground and he did the right thing. No apologies needed from Sheriff Sills.

King James Bible
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Sills done good and he will do good again. He's ON IT!

 

[Foxfire]

I can't find her age and I don't think that case is at all like the Dermond case. He was the neighborhood peeping tom who should have been put away much earlier.

On the subject of elderly abuse that most often happens in nursing homes with a lot of dementia.

But when have we ever heard of a woman being killed and her husbands head removed during an elderly sexual assult? I just don't think that's what happened.

I still can't get over all the movement this killer went through to get bodies here and there. He/they had to have all the time in the world with no disturbances at all.

Pardon my French but this one is a real *advertiser censored* scratcher!

Honeybun1807. many, if not most sexual predators begin with fantasy and escalate to peeping toms..and yes, most should have been put away long before escalating to dark reality.

Yes, most elderly sexual abuse occurs in nursing homes, as does necrophilia often occur in morgues and funeral homes( a little known phenomenon/seldom reported). This is what I refer too as the fox in the chicken house theory.. Where is the fox gonna likely hunt their prey?

Again, the only similar murder/abduction/decapitation of a husband & wife in their 80's that I can remember were John & Irene Bryant(NC-2007). I am sure there were others, but I don't have access to FBI VICAP...

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20080517/NEWS/666736887

 

[momrids6]

Georgia is a melting pot except in the very small country towns

rsbm: and herein lies the problem in narrowing down people who know that lake. It is obvious (to me), that POI knows that lake, knows the area, and was a confident boater. The mix of transplants. drive in frequent boaters, and locals is huge up there, just about 80 miles from Atlanta.

I live on a river in S Ga, and it is blantantly obvious when someone does not know the river, the roads, or generally how things are done around here.

We "wave" down here; the response / look on their faces, or complete lack of response is a dead give away too

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I can't find her age and I don't think that case is at all like the Dermond case. He was the neighborhood peeping tom who should have been put away much earlier.

On the subject of elderly abuse that most often happens in nursing homes with a lot of dementia.

But when have we ever heard of a woman being killed and her husbands head removed during an elderly sexual assult? I just don't think that's what happened.

I still can't get over all the movement this killer went through to get bodies here and there. He/they had to have all the time in the world with no disturbances at all.

Pardon my French but this one is a real *advertiser censored* scratcher!

Elder abuse is at an epidemic high in all states in our nation. Some think physical, and emotional abuse to the aging is done mostly in nursing homes however; that is not true, and often times it is family members of the elderly person or persons who are caretakers who physically, emotionally, and financially abuse the elderly. Most of them are children or siblings of the abused person living in the home with them.

And of course there are those who target the elderly in scams because of their vulnerabilities. The elderly are the number one target for scammers and schemers. Billions are made each year off of the elderly who were specifically targeted because of their age.

Also of course there are sexual predators who prey on the elderly and robbers who beat them to death to take their possessions. They are also subjected to home invasions because the invader is very aware they are the most trusting group, and will open their doors even to strangers late at night especially if they use a female as 'bait' saying she needs help in someway.

Other elderly people have also been kidnapped and later found murdered. We had such a case here at WS not too long ago and it turned out to be the very person they had tried to help for a long time. They even had rented him a house to live in and gave him odd jobs so he could make money. They were in their 80s too. I believe the husband's body was found and he died from blunt force trauma but I am not sure if they ever found his wife.

So being elderly doesn't make someone immune to violent crimes. It actually can make them targets and they often are.

IMO

 

[Cardinal47]

Honeybun1807. many, if not most sexual predators begin with fantasy and escalate to peeping toms..and yes, most should have been put away long before escalating to dark reality.

Yes, most elderly sexual abuse occurs in nursing homes, as does necrophilia often occur in morgues and funeral homes( a little known phenomenon/seldom reported). This is what I refer too as the fox in the chicken house theory.. Where is the fox gonna likely hunt their prey?

Again, the only similar murder/abduction/decapitation of a husband & wife in their 80's that I can remember were John & Irene Bryant(NC-2007). I am sure there were others, but I don't have access to FBI VICAP...

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20080517/NEWS/666736887

I keep thinking of Austin Sigg and this new kid out in CA, Elliot Rodger . Then I remember Gardner and how he killed Amber and Chelsea.

I recently read a statistic that said one out of ten Americans are on psychotic drugs. That's amazing. And the report I found to reference that statement is from 2008. It scares me to think of how many are on them now!

http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb08/atleastone.aspx

My profile would be;

17 - 30 years old
Male
Well off thanks to parents
Parents that travel
Alone a lot
Internet friends
Loves internet games
Highly intelligent
Cunning

 

[Foxfire]

Just to be clear:

As Bootsctr said

"My goodness! I don't know where my Southern manners are this morning, but Howdy and welcome to the Dermonds' murder thread! I'm so glad you posted. Please do keep posting. It's good to read you do think the nuwabian cult could be involved. Like Honeybun said, where's there a little smoke, there's usually a fire. "

Honestly I can't fault Sills in not bringing in GBI. They would do nothing when Sills needed them. He has lots of GOOD resources and he is using them. Sour grapes on GBI for thinking they should be asked again.

Their day in the sun vanished when they failed to do nothing when Jackson and Abernathy came to Georgia to elevate a monster...YORK!

Sills stood his ground and he did the right thing. No apologies needed from Sheriff Sills.

King James Bible
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Sills done good and he will do good again. He's ON IT!

<BBM for Focus>

Honeybun 1807, I am sure that Sheriff Sills has heard the saying; 'Keep your friends close, but there are also very important reasons to keep your enemies closer'..
HB1807, we can't dwell on the past.. The Dermonds and their family needs justice. To achieve this, all available investigative resources must me utilized, including the GBI, imho...

 

[tomkat]

AND I think the Dermonds sold their home in Fulton Co in 1999 and likely built there home in GW on oconee Putnam CO, around the same time their son was murdered in 2000, so left the area probably prior to his trial in 2001


ALso noted that Russell J Dermond bought in aug 1994 and immediately "GIFTED" Russell J Dermond the same property on the same day HE purchased it, Don't know what's up with that, I can see it if he gave it to someone else or his LLC or from his LLC to himself

I know if he paid cash for it, there would be no debt to prevent him from getting a construction loan, don't know why the Bank would want to know that, he didnt' have to pay HIMSELF back if he paid cash for it, just thinking out loud, surely a simple explanation IDK

Just interesting tidbits

had to sneak in a second, back to work

My goodness! I don't know where my Southern manners are this morning, but Howdy and welcome to the Dermonds' murder thread! :greetings: I'm so glad you posted. Please do keep posting. It's good to read you do think the nuwabian cult could be involved. Like Honeybun said, where's there a little smoke, there's usually a fire.

Did you know that the Dermonds bought the land at GW in 1994 at about the same time as the nuwabian cult? The cult came in Eatonton in 1993 from Brooklyn. They dressed like cowboys (imagine that) and nobody took them serious at first. They built an Egyptian-themed compound called Tama-Re. Interesting how they went from cowboys to Egyptian.

The Dermonds' son, Mark, was murdered in 2000 in Atlanta. It would be interesting to see if the killer had ties to the nuwabian cult. The leader aka Malachi York was arrested in 2002 (Malachi - I almost wanted to type malarkey - I think that's Irish). The Dermonds did not attend the trial. Why? Surely they loved their son even if he had drug problems. Perhaps they didn't want anyone else (murder's family or cult members) attending the trial to be able to recognize their faces in the future.

The leader, Dwight York, lost over a million dollars on account of Sheriff Sills and the FBI. I bet he's still pretty upset over that even though it was several years ago. Just some random thoughts. My apology for the long post when I just intended to welcome you to the thread and thank you for your post.

Anyway, please keep posting. We're open to all theories and thoughts without breaking the rules. I think of Websleuths as an online Vidocq Society. :seeya:

 

[momrids6]

I keep thinking of Austin Sigg and this new kid out in CA, Elliot Rodger . Then I remember Gardner and how he killed Amber and Chelsea.

I recently read a statistic that said one out of ten Americans are on psychotic drugs. That's amazing. And the report I found to reference that statement is from 2008. It scares me to think of how many are on them now!

http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb08/atleastone.aspx

My profile would be;

17 - 30 years old
Male
Well off thanks to parents
Parents that travel
Alone a lot
Internet friends
Loves internet games
Highly intelligent
Cunning

To know where the deep depth and snags are requires knowledge, familiarity, repetition, and boating skill- to navigate as well as dump without flipping and crashing- as well as hunting / proficient use of a knife ( not elaborating) intelligence not learned from a book, and does not require privilege.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

rsbm: and herein lies the problem in narrowing down people who know that lake. It is obvious (to me), that POI knows that lake, knows the area, and was a confident boater. The mix of transplants and locals is huge up there, just about 80 miles from Atlanta.

I live on a river in S Ga, and it is blantantly obvious when someone does not know the river, the roads, or generally how things are done around here.

We "wave" down here; the response / look on their faces, or complete lack of response is a dead give away too

I live in south Georgia too, mom, and we do say 'y'all' all the time. Everyone in our area is extremely friendly to everyone unless they give off vibes they don't want to be bothered, and that is usually from someone who may be a transplant here, and isn't use to the friendly meet and greet laid back easygoing lifestyle in the south.

I love people in general. I wouldn't change the way I am for all the fried chicken in Dixie.:floorlaugh:

But I am not stupid. I do know that crime can happen anywhere no matter how peaceful the area someone lives in nowadays. So I am way more cautious now and don't open my door to strangers.

However if I am outside in my yard working in my flowerbeds and someone stops by asking me either for directions or is wanting to compliment me on my landscaping or is inquiring about a particular flower they have seen in my yard then of course I am very gracious, friendly, and accommodating.

We do make sure our alarm system is set every night though and at one time we would have never even thought about having one but times are changing and people have to change with it. Sadly to say.

IMO

 

[Cardinal47]

<BBM for Focus>

Honeybun 1807, I am sure that Sheriff Sills has heard the saying; 'Keep your friends close, but there are also very important reasons to keep your enemies closer'..
HB1807, we can't dwell on the past.. The Dermonds and their family needs justice. To achieve this, all available investigative resources must me utilized, including the GBI, imho...

It's very hard to work with somebody you don't respect. So I give Sills a bye on this one!

I think he has more help than he needs right now!

 

[Canaille]

AND I think the Dermonds sold their home in Fulton Co in 1999 and likely built there home in GW on oconee Putnam CO, around the same time their son was murdered in 2000, so left the area probably prior to his trial in 2001


ALso noted that Russell J Dermond bought in aug 1994 and immediately "GIFTED" Russell J Dermond the same property on the same day HE purchased it, Don't know what's up with that, I can see it if he gave it to someone else or his LLC or from his LLC to himself

I know if he paid cash for it, there would be no debt to prevent him from getting a construction loan, don't know why the Bank would want to know that, he didnt' have to pay HIMSELF back if he paid cash for it, just thinking out loud, surely a simple explanation IDK

Just interesting tidbits

had to sneak in a second, back to work

Shouldn't there have been a Grantor when he purchased it? Or am I not understanding?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

To know where the deep depth and snags are requires knowledge, familiarity, repetition, and boating skill- to navigate as well as dump without flipping and crashing- as well as hunting / proficient use of a knife ( not elaborating) intelligence not learned from a book, and does not require privilege.

You are correct and imo the disposal of Shirley was in the dark in the middle of the night. It could only be done by someone who knew where every surface tree tops were in that lake. Someone that knows not only the backside of the property of the Dermonds very well but one who knows how to navigate the waters even at night to get out to where he threw Shirley's body overboard.

While they don't have to be book smart, I do think they are, and fit right in within the community they resided in.

IMO

 

[Cherry]

I want to know who was in their will; what they were leaving to whom behind and who would benefit financially from their deaths. It's in a nutshell to me. Someone couldn't wait. I'm firm on this.

 

[al66pine]

snipped for focus

....
ALso noted that Russell J Dermond bought in aug 1994 and immediately "GIFTED" Russell J Dermond the same property on the same day HE purchased it, Don't know what's up with that, I can see it if he gave it to someone else or his LLC or from his LLC to himself

I know if he paid cash for it, there would be no debt to prevent him from getting a construction loan, don't know why the Bank would want to know that, he didnt' have to pay HIMSELF back if he paid cash for it, just thinking out loud, surely a simple explanation IDK....

Sometimes the databanks in county recorders office are not entirely 100% accurate.
Maybe we could make better sense of the transaction if we could see THE DEEDS THEMSELVES.
Maybe actually a transfer to a trust?

A link to the pdf of both deeds, pls.:seeya:
Anyone?

 

[Cardinal47]

I know a lot of you have spent a lot of time on how Mrs. D ended up where she did.

But I am wondering. With all that is know could she simply have been thrown or pushed from the pier and floated to the final resting place on those trees?

Thinking this was done early in the night...say 12 midnight could a body drift to that spot?

Maybe no boat or car was used at all is the point I am trying to make!