GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 5

[lakeoconee]

http://www.greeneso.org/Office-of-the-Sheriff/Sheriff-LL-Wyatt

Thought some of you might enjoy.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Popular opinion or not I still continue to believe this killer targeted S&R because they knew something he did not want others to know.

While James Sullivan hired a hit man to murder his wife it was because she was divorcing him and he didn't want to share his wealth with her.... Tokars murdered his wife to keep his secret hidden.

Mrs. Tokars had recently found evidence about his money laundering and drug dealings. So he had her murdered to protect his secret from being known. And Tokars wasn't just a lawyer he had been a Judge at one time too, iirc.

IMO

 

[trigger]

Is it just me or has it been eerily quiet as far as news on the case goes?

It sure is quiet and we are all wondering why mo updates.

Can you imagine how the killer(s) feel. Maybe they feel no news is good news or are they shaking in their boots? :tantrum:

 

[Suthrnqt]

Good morning! How are y'all this lovely Monday??
Wanted to pop in and say I appreciate each and every poster and their views. The lively discussions here are always eye-opening and thought provoking. I relish being exposed to different ideas and I honestly consider each and every one.
Just because I don't agree with all pov does not mean anyone's opinions are any less valid than mine.
:grouphug:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

"Sills said he has been working such long hours that at times he has lost track of days.

A hometown boy, he likened the probe’s plodding nature to “plowing hard ground at Rockville with a dull point and a slow mule.”

Even so, he said, “there are things that we’ve found out that I can’t elaborate
on."

"Sills has narrowed the timeline to a 24-hour window between that Friday afternoon and Saturday afternoon."

Asked what kind of person or people may be responsible for the killings, Sills said, “I would say it was a particularly brutal savage that did this. Whether he did it as a result of self-preservation or he did it as a result of just pure meanness, it takes a certain level of depravity to throw an 87-year-old woman in the lake and cut off the head of an 88-year-old man.”

“Most crimes are solved by somebody telling somebody something,” Sills said. “Somebody knows about this, and we want them to call us and tell us.”

Sheriff Sills should write an autobiography. Oh, the tales he could tell. . .

I have usually agreed with SS throughout this case but on this one aspect, I don't.

I don't think anyone knows about these murders, but the killer himself, and yes, I believe it is only one killer.

Usually when more than one is involved that brings about even greater risks. It puts the potential of more evidence into the pot to be found and if arrested one of them at least is going to get a sweetheart plea deal to testify against the main one. In the Tokars and Sullivan cases the actual hit men got far better deals than the masterminds behind the plot.

I have often wondered in some of the cases where hit men were used do they blackmail the person who had hired them especially if the murder remains unsolved. What could they do about it? Go to the police?:floorlaugh:

I don't see this killer as someone who will confide in another about what he has done. He knows secrets and silence is golden.

And so far tragically it seems to be working in his favor.

IMO

 

[Bootsctr]

Morning,

I admit I haven't read all that much about the NC but I do see it posted that they were 'linked' to two murders in NJ.

If they were linked then were they ever arrested and charged for those murders?

How were they linked? Was it just because these two women belonged to the cult?

If the police had linkage then why weren't they ever arrested or were they?

I don't pay much mind to the comment under the tree picture. It would be obvious they would like nothing better than a tree to fall right on Sills head since he put their leader in prison. It seems to me since there seems to be so many of them then why not lay in wait and murder Sills? That would sure stop Sills in his tracks.

thanks

Mornin' OCB! I have to leave in a bit, so here's what I have on hand right now regarding York:

They (Putnam count folks) didn't know that his (Dwight York) well-armed cult, replete with mosques and other properties throughout the Northeast and Southeast, had been investigated by the FBI, under the rubric of domestic terrorism, for crimes including murder, bank robbery, arson, counterfeiting, extortion, illegal weapons, and terrorizing former members.

Witnesses described a special AAC security team called the Mujahad, or "Sword of Islam," which included Roy Savage, a reputed AAC enforcer who may have been connected to the 1979 murder of an AAC opponent. (Savage went to prison for the 1983 murder of two New Jersey women.) Witnesses alleged that the Mujahad was involved in a spectrum of criminal activity, including narcotics and protection rackets.

OBE, I believe this is where you might have a problem with considering the Nuwuabians suspect in the Dermonds' murders.

The FBI report also described the AAC's so-called "construction crew," a group that allegedly burned down buildings York wanted to buy at cut-rate prices. Agents looked into a 1990-91 series of Maryland bank robberies allegedly carried out by AAC members, including one in which a motel clerk was shot.

They detailed purchases of a number of AK-47 automatic weapons by members. And they explored the way that the AAC allegedly "muscled" its way into security contracts with businesses in tough parts of New York City.

None of these allegations have been proven in court.

Before the zoning standoff began in 1998, the Nuwaubians' fliers — especially the ones about UFOs and the Planet Rizq — had been amusing curiosities. But the fliers came fast and furious now, angrily claiming that the Nuwaubians were being discriminated against by the county because of their race.

Sheriff Sills, branded as "a race-hater of blacks" and a member of the Klan, was the primary target. But over the next few years, more than 30 public officials and community leaders — all but two of them white — would be slandered in hundreds of publications.

The writer, using York's trademark capitalization, spelled out the Nuwaubians' plans to strike back at their oppressors: "There Are People Watching Them Everywhere They Go ... Observing Their Every Move," the creed warned. "We Want Revenge! Because Our People Have Been Unjustly Hurt, We Will Make Sure That They And Theirs Are Hurt."

The threat was not idle.

Cult members began to publish home addresses and phone numbers of public officials and local reporters — and even photographs and information about their spouses and children, including Sills' 8-year-old son.

Then-County Attorney Dorothy Adams and Frank Ford, her husband and law partner, were subject to a campaign of anti-white harassment second only to the attacks on Sills.

Returning home one day, Adams discovered a singular horror — the two halves of a hollowed-out dog carcass, one on either side of her driveway.

"We took that as a warning," says Adams, who renewed her lapsed gun license and started packing a pistol.

As the county's legal battles with the Nuwaubians raged on, two large rocks were thrown through the plate-glass windows that front Adams and Ford's Eatonton law office. A couple of months later, Ford's tires were slashed in a grocery-store parking lot. The slasher, police found, was York's main spokesperson, Bernard Foster.

In subsequent weeks, cult members started refusing to produce drivers' licenses when they were stopped for traffic violations — a tactic common to sovereign citizens and other antigovernment radicals.

"We are not subject to your laws," they would say.

Some of these stops turned into arrests when officers discovered vehicles full of bootleg movies, audiotapes and compact discs.

Reports trickled in of criminal activity elsewhere in Georgia. In Clayton County, a plant for producing counterfeit payroll checks and licenses was found in a mobile home.

A Nuwabian member, along with several "associates" of the group, were indicted in Atlanta for counterfeiting payroll checks to the tune of $5 million. (A son of York's was indicted in Richmond, Va., on similar charges.) Two men with reputed ties to the Nuwaubian Nation were arrested for armed robbery in Rockdale County, halfway between Putnam and Atlanta.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...s/2002/fall/savior-in-a-strange-land?page=0,2

BBL~ Unfortunately, hate comes in all colors. Could the Dermonds' murders have been a hate crime? I doubt it. I think money is the motive, but we have to have proof. I would bet Sills still has his nose to the ground like a blood hound and he will find the proof if it is indeed out there. Right now, the nuwabian cult is as good a theory as any other in my mind. :moo:

 

[JustyThoughts]

Respectfully snipped & BBM for focus:

Popular opinion or not I still continue to believe this killer targeted S&R because they knew something he did not want others to know.
While James Sullivan hired a hit man to murder his wife it was because she was divorcing him and he didn't want to share his wealth with her.... Tokars murdered his wife to keep his secret hidden.
Mrs. Tokars had recently found evidence about his money laundering and drug dealings. So he had her murdered to protect his secret from being known. And Tokars wasn't just a lawyer he had been a Judge at one time too, iirc.
IMO

Yes Tokars was a Judge for a time. Also, talk about savage - Tokars had his wife killed and in front of their 2 small boys. Creep can rot.

Snip and Bold by me:

I haven't posted on this case, but I've been following it fairly close.......... MO is that they were eyes/ears, surveillance, muscle, clean-up, etc. I'd also say the person(s) live/work in LO, or are a friend/relative of one. Or was previously.
Thanks for reading.

Thanks for your post and input J Block. Quick question.... what is LO?

Ohhh never mind on the question J Block... duh... coffee kicked in and I realized it stands for Lake Oconne.

 

[OTPTarheel]

I think there is someone or several someones in Virginia syncing the phone data and the cell tower data and the video data from RP. I am sure more than 1 house in the vicinity of Carolyn Drive has video. Nobody wants to say they have video- makes "guests"
or " renters" feel like they are being watched. People act differently when there's a camera around. I know.I am behind one frequently.

 

[atthelake]

And just look how secluded the pier was. At night, if no flood lights, I doubt anyone could see anything.

That photo prompted another idea...that looks likes an area which could *possibly* be a no wake zone? I didn't realize that the channel was so narrow where they lived. Perhaps they yelled at folks who came by to slow down, and they were upset?

Thanks for the photo, I had never seen that one before.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/14/article-0-1DAD954300000578-436_634x421.jpg

 

[atthelake]

Putnam County Sheriff Howard (Trex) Sills, says that the reasoning for not utilizing the vast investigative resources and expertise of the GBI is that he doesn't want GA Sheriffs to become extinct, as did the dinosaurs. So, Sheriff Sills swiftly recruits the resources of the FBI?

Imo, the primary reason that the honorable Sheriff requested the resources of the FBI, while ignoring those of the GBI; because the FBI had assisted in the original Investigation of York and the Nuwaubian Cult.. Sheriff Sills knew there was a NC connection to the Dermond murders/abduction/decapitation from day one..

Sheriff Sills has also utilized the same 7 Sheriffs Departments in the Dermond investigation that were utilized in the York/Nuwaubian Cult. Too many parallels and coincidences to ignore, imo..

http://cartersville.patch.com/group...t-continues-for-suspect-in-husbands-beheading

Thanks for pulling that up, I had forgotten that 7 depts. were pulled in.

O/T for Fox - I was helping a friend move this past weekend and her son in law is a firefighter and also is a smokediver! I though of you when he was describing the training, and quoting the lonnnnnnnnnng creed. Sounds like the *navy seals* upper echelon of firefighters, and not many get to that level. Kudos to you Fox!

 

[Carolinapeach]

That photo prompted another idea...that looks likes an area which could *possibly* be a no wake zone? I didn't realize that the channel was so narrow where they lived. Perhaps they yelled at folks who came by to slow down, and they were upset?

Thanks for the photo, I had never seen that one before.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/14/article-0-1DAD954300000578-436_634x421.jpg

100-Foot Law: Prohibits people from operating any vessel at a speed greater than idle speed within 100 feet of any vessel which is moored, anchored or adrift outside normal traffic channels, or within 100 feet of any wharf, dock, pier, piling, bridge structure or abutment, person in the water, or shoreline of any residence or public use area. It is also illegal for watercraft operators to jump the wake of another vessel within 100 feet. This law has been in effect, but is still commonly violated by boat and watercraft operators on Georgia waters.

http://www.georgiawildlife.com/new-boating-regulations-2013

 

[jggordo]

I believe many of us on this thread have felt that motive could be financial. It's important for us to keep in mind the amount of time that it takes to do financial and accounting forensics. Following a money trail is time consuming to even establish the dots much less connect them. It takes subpoenas that have to have approvals and then serve them allowing time for compliance and so on.

Just like we have TOS rules here as to who we can "sleuth" LE I'm sure has more, without something besides a "hunch". I believe patience will be a virtue on this case.

JMO's

 

[Foxfire]

Thanks for pulling that up, I had forgotten that 7 depts. were pulled in.

O/T for Fox - I was helping a friend move this past weekend and her son in law is a firefighter and also is a smokediver! I though of you when he was describing the training, and quoting the lonnnnnnnnnng creed. Sounds like the *navy seals* upper echelon of firefighters, and not many get to that level. Kudos to you Fox!

Thank you very much for the very kind words, Atthelake..

 

[tomkat]

[

BBL~ Unfortunately, hate comes in all colors. Could the Dermonds' murders have been a hate crime? I doubt it. I think money is the motive, but we have to have proof. I would bet Sills still has his nose to the ground like a blood hound and he will find the proof if it is indeed out there. Right now, the nuwabian cult is as good a theory as any other in my mind. :moo:[/QUOTE]

TRUE THAT, they are certainly capable of such a horrendous act ! BUt yeah, have to find the motive for this or anything, RIGHT WHERE THIS Case is, finding motive or leads

another thing on MY mind is I'm wondering what all is in a revocable trust they D's may have, does it ahve to be just property and do they own OTHER property and can it include bonds, stocks, cash etc

We dont' know what they own but if it can be passed down without any inheritance tax ramificiations then if one of the spouses dies, it automatically goes to the other adn they can add to it from what i'm reading and if BOTH the partners/trustees die, then it goes to the heirs next in line without tax ramifications, not sure about if the heirs sell it, in regards to capital gains, if any or not

That "GIFT" got me to thinking on this and why gift yourself something, for those that read and replied to my inquiry earlier in this thread

I hope there is SOMETHING found SOON that gives Sills a more direct and definite lead to the POI !

 

[shadow of my mind]

I believe many of us on this thread have felt that motive could be financial. It's important for us to keep in mind the amount of time that it takes to do financial and accounting forensics. Following a money trail is time consuming to even establish the dots much less connect them. It takes subpoenas that have to have approvals and then serve them allowing time for compliance and so on.

Just like we have TOS rules here as to who we can "sleuth" LE I'm sure has more, without something besides a "hunch". I believe patience will be a virtue on this case.

JMO's

BBM

I totally agree and without trying to read too much into these comments by Sills from the article on May 25, I think that may be exactly what is going on and why it has been so quite.

Sunday May 25, 2014
Asked about why the killings may have happened, he said the Dermonds “were probably targeted because of something that they had or something people thought they had. ... Or some sort of extortion that didn’t go through.”
Sills would not discuss specifics of what investigators have learned as they have combed the Dermonds’ financial records and background to sniff out potential motives.
But, he added, “it’s nothing random” as best he can tell for now.Source: http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/c...apitation-mystery-sheriff-seeks-savage-killer

 

[tomkat]

That photo prompted another idea...that looks likes an area which could *possibly* be a no wake zone? I didn't realize that the channel was so narrow where they lived. Perhaps they yelled at folks who came by to slow down, and they were upset?

Thanks for the photo, I had never seen that one before.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/14/article-0-1DAD954300000578-436_634x421.jpg

Yes it's gotta be a no wake, it's a dead end cove, doesnt' seem very deep

was looking at the docks, if no dock lights pretty dark

other docks can view the D's but aren't that close really too

I just can't imagine they'd behead him and cart her off for that, BUT WHO KNOWS esp if they're already a killer and haven't been caught yet!

Can't wait for that video surveillance assessment to come back!

 

[Cardinal47]

Where HaS The Investigation Taken The Le Most Recently,?

We Dont Have Enough Evidence On Anything I dont Think And Not Sure Le Does

How Can There Be An Arrest?

Actually with nothing at all from the Sheriff since over a week ago we have no idea where this investigation is heading.

Others will say they are waiting for lab results. I say they don't have much and are hoping lab results will give them something...

If they had a bloody trail or incriminating fingerprints they would be holding somebody in jail for something until test results are received.

With the big 'nothing' it's looking pretty grim from where I sit!

But hope springs eternal and one never knows!

 

[Zuri]

Could the no comments from Sills be an effort to give the killers a false sense of security, thinking they won't be caught? So they might show their hand or brag to someone? I really wish the reward was $100,000. Money talks. JMV

 

[tomkat]

YOU TELL IT BS!! ANd that's no BS ! :floorlaugh:

THere could very well be a common link to tie it ALL together, we JUST DON"T KNOW, that's the whole point

I'm going to be damned dissapointed if this site gets censored, the nuwabians have a history in Eatonton and are indeed LIVE AND WELL

ANd BTW, people CAN run their show from the jail cell,

not saying this is defiinetly what happened but they ARE QUITE CAPABLE

They hated then, THEY STILL HATE, they have no morals.

LIKEWISE the person who murdered the D's

Who's to say that one of them isn't the perp even OUTSIDE of the cult

Like I say, this is a discussion board, not LE

I beg to differ. I posted a link earlier that linked the Nuwaubians to the murder of two New Jersey women and they did have weapons. Sheriff Sills attempted to drive onto the compound at one point and was confronted by two Nuwaubians wielding two .9 mm semi-automatic guns. They are a "hate" group. Hate to me is equivelant to being able to murder someone. Where did all of them go when their "leader" was sent to prison ? Hmm? They didn't all go back to New York. I'd bet money some of them hung around and tried assimilate back into Eatonton society. There was a book store run by a Nuwabian dude who admitted to the reporter that yes they did worship Dwight York. This was November/December 2013. So they're still around. There were also two of Nuwaubians convicted of armed robbery and that's not a little offense either - serious felony. I'm not saying "THEY" did this either, but in reading their blog they were still referencing Sheriff Sills in a post dated April 28, 2014. Sheriff Sills commented about damage done at the Courthouse and on the blog there is a picture of huge tree blown over by some serious wind. The trunk is merely splinters. The post below the picture of the courthouse and damaged tree is a quote by Sills that says "thankfully no one was hurt or killed." The response below the picture is: It reads "Well it's not the end of the day yet is it." Less than a week later the Dermonds are found murdered. I don't think we are breaking TOS sleuthing the Nuwaubians and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I enjoy reading EVERYONE'S posts and to poo-poo one person's opinion when no one knows anything more than the next poster is disheartening. First we couldn't talk about gators and next I guess we can't speculate regarding the nuwaubians. Love you all, but if I find an article that links these "nuwaubian cult members" to a beheading I'm going to post it. :truce:

 

[Peppery]

I keep wondering why the timeline is so long. Friday after the mail to Saturday at the time of the derby party. If they were so religious about setting the alarm, they either set it around the usual time Friday night or they didn't. They either turned it off at usual Saturday morning time or they didn't. I'd venture a guess that their routines didn't vary too much and they weren't in the habit of going out in the middle of the night. I hope LO has narrowed it down more than a 24-36hour window. Unless they weren't that consistent on setting it and then I'd wonder why someone remarked that they were.

Who said they "might" have seen Mr. D walking on the golf course on Friday morning? There's gotta be cameras on the course. Would they be part of the surveillance system that was down?