GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 5

[Jabarn]

If it was a "thrill kill" done by a predator then he probably didn't care a thing about material things. He came to kill for the sake of killing.

I try to follow this case as closely as possible... After Mrs. D's body was found, there was a cause of and manner of death quickly released to the media. Results of testing sent off for DNA analysis were not ready as fast. Even Mr. D, with his head missing had a cause and manner of death.

Still waiting for those DNA results... And I know water may have been an aversive to any DNA, but maybe not.


http://www.isfg.org/files/d89ebc1b0b550224996cce142d1a532920dc07c9.02005861_187261587589.pdf

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe many of us on this thread have felt that motive could be financial. It's important for us to keep in mind the amount of time that it takes to do financial and accounting forensics. Following a money trail is time consuming to even establish the dots much less connect them. It takes subpoenas that have to have approvals and then serve them allowing time for compliance and so on.

Just like we have TOS rules here as to who we can "sleuth" LE I'm sure has more, without something besides a "hunch". I believe patience will be a virtue on this case.

JMO's

I do believe the motive has some ties with finances although what type I have no clue. I have thought though that they may have discovered that someone was running a Ponzi scheme or some other type of financial scam.

I was very impressed how quickly Sills and the FBI delved into the financial aspect right from the get go. Iirc Sills said they had gone back 10 years concerning S&Rs accounting records and found nothing whatsoever out of the ordinary.

But I have never thought it was anything they were doing wrong but may be someone who had tried to scam them and they may have recently found out that it was a scam and the scammer knew they were on to him.

Since we are almost into a month now I am sure he and the FBI also have had copies of the children's financial records as well.

But I have no doubt he will keep searching other places and other people as well to see if he can connect the dots.

IMO

 

[Bootsctr]

As I have stated before, I live on a dirt road. Sand mostly. I cannot stand for anyone, grandchildren included to ride up and down the rode so fast just spreading dust. After 1 and 1/2 years I have made believers out of them. The noise, and the dirt drive me crazy, but most of all the disrespect is intolerable. And I don't care who they are. jmo

Oh I'm with you on that most definitely mck16. Drives me crazy too, especially about July when we are in the midst of a drought and the dirt thrown up by speedhogs drifts up and covers everything. I was glad the neighbor was doing the screamin' and hollerin' so I didn't have to. She moved though and my dog has all of sudden started chasing speeding vehicles. So now I'm out there screaming and hollering for them to slow down. . . maybe we need to be neighbors. :loveyou:

That reminds me. I wonder if the gentleman who was killed over the weekend who had wrecked his boat by hitting a dock was speeding through an area such as where the Dermonds pier was located.

 

[mck16]

yep. Life insurance proceeds, bank accounts, stocks etc can all be titled in to the name of a trust therefore assisting in avoiding lengthy probate for some.

Jurisdictions have varied dollar amount maximums beyond which things owned by the individual decedents estates would need probated. If kept under the minimum then things can be distributed much more quickly than via the probate process allows for. (here six months is the quickest you can wrap up a probate and some that involve larger estates go on for years and years and years - generations even).

Plus if an estate is probated, it is easy for other interested parties to object or try to fight for more than is stated in the will.

Whereas if most assets are kept in the trust and quarterly, annual or entire distributions are called for depending on the trust's structure. Then there is really very little to argue about. Plus the trust can contain specific language barring objections or claims beyond what is stated thereby take what you were given or lose all of it you are written out completely.

MOO

Do we know for sure that the Dermonds assetts were in a trust? ty

 

[Suthrnqt]

As I have stated before, I live on a dirt road. Sand mostly. I cannot stand for anyone, grandchildren included to ride up and down the rode so fast just spreading dust. After 1 and 1/2 years I have made believers out of them. The noise, and the dirt drive me crazy, but most of all the disrespect is intolerable. And I don't care who they are. jmo

Give 'em hell mck. :giggle:
Reminds me of my dear Pappy (GP for those of you not fortunate enough to be born in the south).
When one of our fellars made the mistake of blowing the car horn, Pappy came out the screen door and hollered from the front porch,
"We ain't got no g*d d**n curb service boy." Lol.

 

[Jabarn]

It seems like the theories keep going in a round about fashion. Back to the Dermonds angering someone partying on the docks by telling them to hush up, to a revenge crime against one of their kiddos by some money interested weirdos, to someone in their past they made angry, to a homicidal neighbor, to a case of mistaken identity, to a disgruntled grandchild, to a revenge cult slaying against Sills, to a serial killer. All of these make sense because all have been witnessed in other crimes in true crime history (except maybe the cult revenge theory against the primary investigator). It's the evidence that is lacking, pure and simple. With the right evidence, then a rightful motive could be explored. I guess? There is no evidence. At least not that has been revealed. I hope there is evidence the investigative team are holding close to the breast. That is the only thing that will bust this case open, IMOHO, unless someone decides to talk.

 

[lakeoconee]

"That photo prompted another idea...that looks likes an area which could *possibly* be a no wake zone? I didn't realize that the channel was so narrow where they lived. Perhaps they yelled at folks who came by to slow down, and they were upset? "


It's not a channel but a very small inlet. Nobody could even speed by that dock unless a jet ski and I,m not sure that would be possible. It's a very quiet neighborhood. I have never heard of anything rowdy even lakeside there. I can't imagine any dockside confrontation. In all my years here, never heard of anything like that. Most of us old folks enjoy seeing the kids having fun. And everything I have heard about the Dermonds makes me believe they would agree with that attitude.

I could possibly get chastised by one of the PC folks here. However, I do not think a black person did this, and I don't know of any white Nuwaubians. I discussed this close black friends. My point was decapitation is not a typical black thing. Mexican or South American, yes. Muslim, hell yes. But that's a stretch for even the fertile imaginations I've encountered here. My other point is that as a rule black people are respectful toward old people. Throw drugs in and I'll abandon that generality. However, my black friends weren't impressed with my logic. They said to a person that if a black person had done this, they would have robbed the place. They wouldn't have done this for any weird reason, gang stuff aside.

I keep hearing from you about the terror in the neighborhood. That's not happening. Maybe Sills's media management is responsible. But from the first morning RD's body was found, deputies assured neighbors that this was targeted. LIfe goes on around here. My pistol is dusted off. Security systems are in use, but there is no panic.

One more thing, the security cameras at the security gates are not well-known. Residents don't even know they are there, and they have never functioned reliably. I've said before that "security" is meant to help people maintain a certain amount of privacy. This has never been a "secure compound" you might picture in a third world environment.

Hope I can get some reaction to my opinions.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I try to follow this case as closely as possible... After Mrs. D's body was found, there was a cause of and manner of death quickly released to the media. Results of testing sent off for DNA analysis were not ready as fast. Even Mr. D, with his head missing had a cause and manner of death.

Still waiting for those DNA results... And I know water may have been an aversive to any DNA, but maybe not.


http://www.isfg.org/files/d89ebc1b0b550224996cce142d1a532920dc07c9.02005861_187261587589.pdf

The toxicology results are the only things that have not been returned concerning the AR for each one. The ME never signs off on an autopsy until the tox results are back in. Once he has that back it will become an official AR report but until then it is pending until the tox results come back in. The AP (Associated Press) has been able to get ahold of high profile ARs in the past when no one else could and I wish they would get these two.

Imo,I don't think anything will be found in their system except for the prescription medications they may have been taking at the time of their death. HOWEVER; they may be able to pinpoint the TOD a lot closer if there are undissolved pills in their stomach or partially dissolved. They can also narrow it down by being able to tell if the meds were in their stomach or had already passed on to other organs like the liver and kidneys. They will know how long it takes each type of medication to work its way through the system. They will also have their pill bottles that shows how much and when each medication is to be taken.

As far as the evidence that may have been on the bodies usually it is the ME who carefully examines the body/clothing to see if there could be any DNA on them that may help them find the killer such as hair and fibers. He also bags their clothing carefully so that they can be sent out for testing. I don't know why I feel nothing of use will be found on either body. I think this killer was extremely careful not to leave any evidence of himself behind.

Imo, but if any evidence of any kind is found Sills will not divulge those results to the public. That way the killer will not know what they may have that can tie him to the crimes. Sills will want him to think they found something which actually might be true but he wants the killer to second guess himself and worry that he did make a mistake. And I pray that he did.

I don't think they found anything like bloody fingerprints in the garage area though. If so, they would have immediately fast tracked those pieces of evidence to see if he may have already been in a data bank somewhere and one does not have to be a criminal to have fingerprints on file. Plenty of people nowadays have to have fingerprints ran to obtain a certain job position. Imo, the killer is not in the system nor has a criminal past. JMO though

So if they did find a bloody print then it hasn't matched anyone who is in the system somewhere for whatever reason imo. There would have been an arrest by now if they had gotten a hit.

IMO

 

[Jabarn]

"That photo prompted another idea...that looks likes an area which could *possibly* be a no wake zone? I didn't realize that the channel was so narrow where they lived. Perhaps they yelled at folks who came by to slow down, and they were upset? "


It's not a channel but a very small inlet. Nobody could even speed by that dock unless a jet ski and I,m not sure that would be possible. It's a very quiet neighborhood. I have never heard of anything rowdy even lakeside there. I can't imagine any dockside confrontation. In all my years here, never heard of anything like that. Most of us old folks enjoy seeing the kids having fun. And everything I have heard about the Dermonds makes me believe they would agree with that attitude.

I could possibly get chastised by one of the PC folks here. However, I do not think a black person did this, and I don't know of any white Nuwaubians. I discussed this close black friends. My point was decapitation is not a typical black thing. Mexican or South American, yes. Muslim, hell yes. But that's a stretch for even the fertile imaginations I've encountered here. My other point is that as a rule black people are respectful toward old people. Throw drugs in and I'll abandon that generality. However, my black friends weren't impressed with my logic. They said to a person that if a black person had done this, they would have robbed the place. They wouldn't have done this for any weird reason, gang stuff aside.

I keep hearing from you about the terror in the neighborhood. That's not happening. Maybe Sills's media management is responsible. But from the first morning RD's body was found, deputies assured neighbors that this was targeted. LIfe goes on around here. My pistol is dusted off. Security systems are in use, but there is no panic.

One more thing, the security cameras at the security gates are not well-known. Residents don't even know they are there, and they have never functioned reliably. I've said before that "security" is meant to help people maintain a certain amount of privacy. This has never been a "secure compound" you might picture in a third world environment.

Hope I can get some reaction to my opinions.

I'll give you a reaction, but it is mild. If the cameras don't work reliably on a typical day, then what are the odds there was no subterfuge in that they didn't work when the Dermond crime occurred?

 

[Jabarn]

The toxicology results are the only things that have not been returned concerning the AR for each one. The ME never signs off on an autopsy until the tox results are back in. Once he has that back it will become an official AR report but until then it is pending until the tox results come back in. The AP (Associated Press) has been able to get ahold of high profile ARs in the past when no one else could and I wish they would get these two.

Imo,I don't think anything will be found in their system except for the prescription medications they may have been taking at the time of their death. HOWEVER; they may be able to pinpoint the TOD a lot closer if there are undissolved pills in their stomach or partially dissolved. They can also narrow it down by being able to tell if the meds were in their stomach or had already passed on to other organs like the liver and kidneys. They will know how long it takes each type of medication to work its way through the system. They will also have their pill bottles that shows how much and when each medication is to be taken.

As far as the evidence that may have been on the bodies usually it is the ME who carefully examines the body/clothing to see if there could be any DNA on them that may help them find the killer such as hair and fibers. He also bags their clothing carefully so that they can be sent out for testing. I don't know why I feel nothing of use will be found on either body. I think this killer was extremely careful not to leave any evidence of himself behind.

Imo, but if any evidence of any kind is found Sills will not divulge those results to the public. That way the killer will not know what they may have that can tie him to the crimes. Sills will want him to think they found nothing which actually might be true but he wants the killer to second guess himself and worry that he did make a mistake. And I pray that he did.

I don't think they found anything like bloody fingerprints in the garage area though. If so, they would have immediately fast tracked those pieces of evidence to see if he may have already been in a data bank somewhere and one does not have to be a criminal to have fingerprints on file. Plenty of people nowadays have to have fingerprints ran to obtain a certain job position. Imo, the killer is not in the system nor has a criminal past. JMO though

So if they did find a bloody print then it hasn't matched anyone who is in the system somewhere for whatever reason imo. There would have been an arrest by now if they had gotten a hit.

IMO

Thank you.

 

[tlcya]

Do we know for sure that the Dermonds assetts were in a trust? ty

we do not know if there was a current (active) trust. We do not know IF there is one if it is revocable or irrevocable (both have their advantages and disadvantages and it really depends on the goal when the trust is created which is chosen).

What we do know is that a deed for property owned (at least at one time not sure if currently was owned by them) was transferred (gifted) to a trust that appears to have been created by Mr. Dermond.

Given my own experience with estate planning (not a lawyer, simple legal asst here) which is my attorney's bread and butter, in addition to medicaid planning for long term care costs, a lot of people I might consider middle class or well off have them. Trusts are not just for the ultra wealthy nor have they been for a long while. Given what I know about the Dermonds financial stability, I would be GOBSMACKED if there is not still a trust or trusts in play currently.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

"That photo prompted another idea...that looks likes an area which could *possibly* be a no wake zone? I didn't realize that the channel was so narrow where they lived. Perhaps they yelled at folks who came by to slow down, and they were upset? "


It's not a channel but a very small inlet. Nobody could even speed by that dock unless a jet ski and I,m not sure that would be possible. It's a very quiet neighborhood. I have never heard of anything rowdy even lakeside there. I can't imagine any dockside confrontation. In all my years here, never heard of anything like that. Most of us old folks enjoy seeing the kids having fun. And everything I have heard about the Dermonds makes me believe they would agree with that attitude.

I could possibly get chastised by one of the PC folks here. However, I do not think a black person did this, and I don't know of any white Nuwaubians. I discussed this close black friends. My point was decapitation is not a typical black thing. Mexican or South American, yes. Muslim, hell yes. But that's a stretch for even the fertile imaginations I've encountered here. My other point is that as a rule black people are respectful toward old people. Throw drugs in and I'll abandon that generality. However, my black friends weren't impressed with my logic. They said to a person that if a black person had done this, they would have robbed the place. They wouldn't have done this for any weird reason, gang stuff aside.

I keep hearing from you about the terror in the neighborhood. That's not happening. Maybe Sills's media management is responsible. But from the first morning RD's body was found, deputies assured neighbors that this was targeted. LIfe goes on around here. My pistol is dusted off. Security systems are in use, but there is no panic.

One more thing, the security cameras at the security gates are not well-known. Residents don't even know they are there, and they have never functioned reliably. I've said before that "security" is meant to help people maintain a certain amount of privacy. This has never been a "secure compound" you might picture in a third world environment.

Hope I can get some reaction to my opinions.

I think your opinions are well founded and I am one that agrees with you.

I wouldn't even think many would even go back to that quiet little inlet except maybe those who lived very close by and may have had a boat of their own there where they have to leave that inlet to get out to the bigger water on Lake Oconee.

Whoever did this knows that 'tucked away' little inlet very well. IMO

 

[Litig8ter]

Sills said they had gone back 10 years concerning S&Rs accounting records and found nothing whatsoever out of the ordinary.

Do you think Sills was shooting straight on this one, or was he trying to throw the perp off? I know it's all we have to go one, but is it true?

From what I have read about him, I wouldn't want to play poker with I'm (assuming it was a legal game). He know what he is doing, IMO.

 

[lakeoconee]

I'll give you a reaction, but it is mild. If the cameras don't work reliably on a typical day, then what are the odds there was no subterfuge in that they didn't work when the Dermond crime occurred?

No particular significance.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I do too, but I have a bad feeling that it's not. I'm thinking.
"Untouchables"
Sad but true $$$$ does make a difference in a court of law.
IMO this is a circumstancial case at best.
No arrest is going to be made until they have more proof.
As long as the perp or perps don't start wagging their tongues and don't commit any more crimes/murder, they are good ta go.
Moo

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

As much as I don't want to, I agree with you.....
I'm beginning to wonder if this crime will be solved.

 

[Bootsctr]

Give 'em hell mck. :giggle:
Reminds me of my dear Pappy (GP for those of you not fortunate enough to be born in the south).
When one of our fellars made the mistake of blowing the car horn, Pappy came out the screen door and hollered from the front porch,
"We ain't got no g*d d**n curb service boy." Lol.

Yep, yep, and yep! That ticks some people off to no end. My family's the honkers and my husband is not - one of his biggest pet peeve! :fence:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Do you think Sills was shooting straight on this one, or was he trying to throw the perp off? I know it's all we have to go one, but is it true?

From what I have read about him, I wouldn't want to play poker with I'm (assuming it was a legal game). He know what he is doing, IMO.

About the Dermonds financial records? No one really knows. I have felt all along he was saying things because he feels the perp is listening to everything about this case.

I really don't think the murders have anything to do with the Dermonds being involved in some type of wrongdoing so I didn't expect him to find anything out of the ordinary when it came to them.

Although you could be correct and he isn't wanting the murderer to know they did see some strange things like maybe several investment checks written out in the past year to the same person.

He technically wouldn't be lying if he said he found nothing out of the ordinary for THEM for I don't think he ever expected to find any underhanded dealings they did. He is looking for what the killer may have done to the Dermonds before he murdered them.

I just wish something would break or at least have some kind of update. But Sills may be laying low for a reason. I sure hope so anyway.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yep, yep, and yep! That ticks some people off to no end. My family's the honkers and my husband is not - one of his biggest pet peeve! :fence:

Your hubby and I would get along just fine.

I don't blow my horn at anyone and still around here when a guy picks a girl up for a date he doesn't just honk the horn at the curb. He has to come to the door. I guess some traditions in the deep south never change at least not where I live.:floorlaugh:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No particular significance.

At first I did think it had some significance but I no longer think that way.

I don't believe he had to enter the gate to get to the Dermond property. I think he was already there.

IMO

 

[Litig8ter]

He has to come to the door. I guess some traditions in the deep south never change at least not where I live.:floorlaugh:

And he has to escort her to the door at the end of the evening. :blushing: