GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 5

[Cardinal47]

From yesterday's channel 2 report: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/donations-increase-reward-reynolds-plantation-murd/ngDFK/

"Sills said most killings involve some kind of criminal activity but it doesn't appear that's the case in the Dermond murder."

So the killer had one mission and only one mission. I am going back to my theory that someone was paid to kill them.

And I am still stuck on Sigg and Gardner!

 

[epiphany]

I have wondered all along if Mr. D had a gun and they took it away from him.

Yes...and used his own firearm on him. He's not gonna go down easy after 60+
years with his wife if she was attacked first and he had a firearm in the home.

 

[Bootsctr]

And I am still stuck on Sigg and Gardner!

Hoodlums, thugs, both of them.

 

[Bootsctr]

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/

Okay, so about the 2 differernt weapons

2 perps or more

OR

Mrs D. showed up later? which wasn't expected and the one perp had to react?

I dont' know, orginally I immediately thought, 2 perps, one going for her, one for him

WHAT THE HELL DID THEY GET out of this??

S

“This is a very difficult case, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have forensic evidence. We’re running down leads today,” said Sills. “We’ve got fingerprints, we’ve got hairs, we’ve got fibers, we’ve got all matter of forensic evidence that we’ve collected from the house.”

Sills said they’ve also collected several other items of significance to the case that he can’t talk about."

Boy Howdy if somebody wasn't pooping :bricks: last week. They are sure pooping :bricks: today!

Thanks TK! :loveyou:

 

[Foxfire]

If Mr D's head is missing & his COD was diagnosed by the ME as trauma to the head. How does Sheriff Sills know that two different murder weapons were used on the Dermonds? Gun powder residue?

 

[Bootsctr]

If Mr D's head is missing & his COD was diagnosed by the ME as trauma to the head. How does Sheriff Sills know that two different murder weapons were used on the Dermonds? Gun powder residue?

That would mean he was shot at close range. Maybe in a struggle over the gun? They didn't cut off his hands, but there was something about his hands. . . he was missing part of a finger from an old injury?

 

[epiphany]

If Mr D's head is missing & his COD was diagnosed by the ME as trauma to the head. How does Sheriff Sills know that two different murder weapons were used on the Dermonds? Gun powder residue?

Yes, and perhaps, his firearm is also missing...IF he had one.

 

[Bootsctr]

youthful ? as in beauty? OR as in "a youth", yes I'd categorize them as young but not necessarily a teen, maybe young 20's too

so this is what Sills thinks? A hoodlum? So then they'd be neighbors kids or renters or yard fellas?

Some hoodlums that hung out at the Publix ?

 

[Cardinal47]

Hoodlums, thugs, both of them.

Cold blooded psychopaths. Planned and calculated.

Psychopath
It is time to note the difference between a psychopath and a psychotic.

Psychopath:

A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.

Psychopaths tend to lack normal human emotions such as guilt. They are also often highly intelligent and skilled at manipulating others.

Also, psychopaths seem to appear normal. You would probably never guess there was something wrong with them.

Note, not all psychopaths are serial killers.
Ted Bundy was a psychopath, but Richard Chase was a psychotic.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Psychopath

 

[Bootsctr]

Sills says he believes whoever killed the Dermonds left Russell Dermond’s headless body where it would be found, but never planned for Shirley Dermond’s remains to float to the surface of the lake and be discovered.

“I think it was a matter just to distract us, to concentrate our attention towards the whereabouts of Mrs. Dermond; whether we suspected her to be a suspect or we suspected that she had been abducted,” said Sills.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/

 

[epiphany]

Wonder if they moved Mr D to the woods IF they removed his (speculation) firearm from him and shot him, and did the decapitation there. Perhaps, also found some forensics there...then perp/s moved his body back to the garage.

 

[Bootsctr]

Cold blooded psychopaths. Planned and calculated.

Psychopath
It is time to note the difference between a psychopath and a psychotic.

Psychopath:

A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.

Psychopaths tend to lack normal human emotions such as guilt. They are also often highly intelligent and skilled at manipulating others.

Also, psychopaths seem to appear normal. You would probably never guess there was something wrong with them.

Note, not all psychopaths are serial killers.
Ted Bundy was a psychopath, but Richard Chase was a psychotic.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Psychopath

Okay, so both OJ and Casey A are psychopaths. They aren't serial killers, but they certainly lack empathy or remorse. I figure whoever plotted this out is a psychopath and not psychotic.

 

[Jabarn]

I do want to say that in this particular article:
"The Putnam County Sheriff is asking for donations to create a large reward fund in an effort to solve the killing of Russell and Shirley Dermond."

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/donations-increase-reward-reynolds-plantation-murd/ngDFK/

Emphasis on LARGE REWARD.......
IMOO.

This is a first, in my experience, where the lead investigator asks for public donations to establish a reward fund to identify the killer(s). Maybe Sills should set up ******** account. Sarcasm aside, if there is someone motivated to turn, then the key word is not money, but immunity.

 

[Bethanthony]

Am I the only one who believes the reward has very little to do with raising an actual reward and more to do with data collection? Sort of like Sills asking neighbors to fill out a questionnaire about the Dermonds but really collecting finger prints?!

I immediately thought it was very weird that they keep pushing the tax deductible angle. Sills said specifically that his office would provide the tax deduction paperwork and that it was the first time a reward had been set up like this. It got me to thinking, "Could the format allow LE or the IRS to gain more financial info than they are allowed otherwise?" Low and behold, look what I found on the FBI website about money laundering investigative tools:

While investigating money laundering and asset forfeiture cases, investigators have numerous sources of information at their disposal. Nine prove as particularly useful.36

1) Bank Secrecy Act reports: Financial institutions, including some casinos and merchants, must file currency transaction reports, foreign bank account reports, suspicious activity reports (SARs), and similar documents with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN). These can help investigators connect laundered or concealed assets. SARs provide a tremendous source of intelligence, often actionable, and can help to proactively launch new investigations. They also assist investigations reactively by identifying accounts, no-show jobs, previously unknown associates, and many other valuable forms of information. SAR review teams exist around the country where multiple agencies examine the reports with prosecutors and choose viable targets. Financial institutions must provide the supporting documentation behind a SAR upon request from law enforcement. No subpoena is required.37

2) EGMONT: This network consists of the financial intelligence units of over 100 countries and permits law enforcement to request data in support of a significant money laundering or terrorist financing investigation. At a minimum, the information will include the requested country’s equivalent of SARs filed on the subjects of the request. No subpoena, prosecutor, or court involvement is needed, and law enforcement can make the request through FinCEN.

3) Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty: A formal request for records or enforcement action by a foreign country is made through DOJ’s Office of International Affairs.38

4) FEDWIRE: The New York Federal Reserve Bank can search names, addresses, and account numbers for any fund transfers done through its system. Often, this will reveal previously unknown beneficiaries and accounts.39

5) Clearing House Interbank Payment Systems (CHIPS): A subpoena can be served
to search the CHIPS network, used by financial institutions to process wire transfers.40

6) Mail covers: A request through the U.S. Postal Inspection Service will provide the information featured on the outside of envelopes. Often, this will identify financial institutions the subjects of the investigation deal with, as well as shell corporations, virtual offices, and phone companies.



Seized Assets from Operation Malicious Mortgage
7) Tax returns: Through a court order obtained by the U.S. Attorney’s Office, the investigator can examine relevant tax returns, which often will yield the location of accounts, as well as front companies and shell corporations through which individuals launder money.41 Investigators or prosecutors working with a subject who is cooperating or proffering can request the individual to sign IRS Form 8821, which authorizes the release of the subject’s tax records without the need for a court order.


8) Patriot Act 314(a) search: This likely is the most important money laundering tool available. Investigators can request FinCEN to post on a secure Web site the names of any individuals or entities who are subjects of a significant money laundering or terrorist financing investigation. All U.S. financial institutions then must advise the inquiring investigator of any accounts in the names of the requested subjects along with contact information for service of a subpoena. This method is far superior to serving a subpoena on the credit
bureaus because the investigator will learn of all domestic accounts and not just those linked to some form of credit. No subpoena, prosecutor, or court involvement is needed, and law enforcement can make the request through FinCEN.

9) Correspondent bank accounts: Virtually all foreign banks maintain correspondent accounts, also known as interbank accounts, in the United States to conduct American dollar transactions on behalf of their customers. These simply are accounts opened at U.S. banks in the name of a foreign financial institution. Even without jurisdiction over a foreign bank, investigators can serve a grand jury subpoena and receive records of any checks or wire transfers that cleared through the U.S. correspondent account on behalf of the foreign bank.42 By learning the senders or beneficiaries of these transactions, the investigator can determine the likely beneficial owners of the foreign account, as well as other foreign and domestic accounts involved in the money laundering cycle. And, where forfeitable funds are traced to a financial institution in a country that will not cooperate with the United States, DOJ can authorize the use of Section 981(k), a Patriot Act provision, which permits the seizure from a U.S. correspondent account of a sum equivalent to the amount of criminal proceeds laundered to the foreign bank. The U.S. correspondent bank relinquishes the money and provides the foreign bank with the seizure warrant so that the foreign bank can recoup the amount seized from its correspondent account by taking the same sum from its account holder. The foreign bank usually is not complicit in the money laundering but is subject to the seizure based on its role in holding the money launderer’s funds overseas. The Section 981(k) seizure authority can often be obtained within a few weeks.


Essentially, with American bank account numbers, they can then access foreign records they would otherwise not have permission to, amongst other things.

I think the reward account is just a tool to gain financial information from someone they might suspect, someone they think will donate...

 

[Jabarn]

Am I the only one who believes the reward has very little to do with raising an actual reward and more to do with data collection? Sort of like Sills asking neighbors to fill out a questionnaire about the Dermonds but really collecting finger prints?!

I immediately thought it was very weird that they keep pushing the tax deductible angle. Sills said specifically that his office would provide the tax deduction paperwork and that it was the first time a reward had been set up like this. It got me to thinking, "Could the format allow LE or the IRS to gain more financial info than they are allowed otherwise?" Low and behold, look what I found on the FBI website about money laundering investigative tools:

While investigating money laundering and asset forfeiture cases, investigators have numerous sources of information at their disposal. Nine prove as particularly useful.36

1) Bank Secrecy Act reports: Financial institutions, including some casinos and merchants, must file currency transaction reports, foreign bank account reports, suspicious activity reports (SARs), and similar documents with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN). These can help investigators connect laundered or concealed assets. SARs provide a tremendous source of intelligence, often actionable, and can help to proactively launch new investigations. They also assist investigations reactively by identifying accounts, no-show jobs, previously unknown associates, and many other valuable forms of information. SAR review teams exist around the country where multiple agencies examine the reports with prosecutors and choose viable targets. Financial institutions must provide the supporting documentation behind a SAR upon request from law enforcement. No subpoena is required.37

2) EGMONT: This network consists of the financial intelligence units of over 100 countries and permits law enforcement to request data in support of a significant money laundering or terrorist financing investigation. At a minimum, the information will include the requested country’s equivalent of SARs filed on the subjects of the request. No subpoena, prosecutor, or court involvement is needed, and law enforcement can make the request through FinCEN.

3) Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty: A formal request for records or enforcement action by a foreign country is made through DOJ’s Office of International Affairs.38

4) FEDWIRE: The New York Federal Reserve Bank can search names, addresses, and account numbers for any fund transfers done through its system. Often, this will reveal previously unknown beneficiaries and accounts.39

5) Clearing House Interbank Payment Systems (CHIPS): A subpoena can be served
to search the CHIPS network, used by financial institutions to process wire transfers.40

6) Mail covers: A request through the U.S. Postal Inspection Service will provide the information featured on the outside of envelopes. Often, this will identify financial institutions the subjects of the investigation deal with, as well as shell corporations, virtual offices, and phone companies.



Seized Assets from Operation Malicious Mortgage
7) Tax returns: Through a court order obtained by the U.S. Attorney’s Office, the investigator can examine relevant tax returns, which often will yield the location of accounts, as well as front companies and shell corporations through which individuals launder money.41 Investigators or prosecutors working with a subject who is cooperating or proffering can request the individual to sign IRS Form 8821, which authorizes the release of the subject’s tax records without the need for a court order.


8) Patriot Act 314(a) search: This likely is the most important money laundering tool available. Investigators can request FinCEN to post on a secure Web site the names of any individuals or entities who are subjects of a significant money laundering or terrorist financing investigation. All U.S. financial institutions then must advise the inquiring investigator of any accounts in the names of the requested subjects along with contact information for service of a subpoena. This method is far superior to serving a subpoena on the credit
bureaus because the investigator will learn of all domestic accounts and not just those linked to some form of credit. No subpoena, prosecutor, or court involvement is needed, and law enforcement can make the request through FinCEN.

9) Correspondent bank accounts: Virtually all foreign banks maintain correspondent accounts, also known as interbank accounts, in the United States to conduct American dollar transactions on behalf of their customers. These simply are accounts opened at U.S. banks in the name of a foreign financial institution. Even without jurisdiction over a foreign bank, investigators can serve a grand jury subpoena and receive records of any checks or wire transfers that cleared through the U.S. correspondent account on behalf of the foreign bank.42 By learning the senders or beneficiaries of these transactions, the investigator can determine the likely beneficial owners of the foreign account, as well as other foreign and domestic accounts involved in the money laundering cycle. And, where forfeitable funds are traced to a financial institution in a country that will not cooperate with the United States, DOJ can authorize the use of Section 981(k), a Patriot Act provision, which permits the seizure from a U.S. correspondent account of a sum equivalent to the amount of criminal proceeds laundered to the foreign bank. The U.S. correspondent bank relinquishes the money and provides the foreign bank with the seizure warrant so that the foreign bank can recoup the amount seized from its correspondent account by taking the same sum from its account holder. The foreign bank usually is not complicit in the money laundering but is subject to the seizure based on its role in holding the money launderer’s funds overseas. The Section 981(k) seizure authority can often be obtained within a few weeks.


Essentially, with American bank account numbers, they can then access foreign records they would otherwise not have permission to, amongst other things.

I think the reward account is just a tool to gain financial information from someone they might suspect, someone they think will donate...

Good research. I just can't imagine a hardened criminal would be so dumb to fall for that ploy. But then again, try anything once. But not twice, if there are no results.

 

[epiphany]

“This is a very difficult case, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have forensic evidence. We’re running down leads today,” said Sills. “We’ve got fingerprints, we’ve got hairs, we’ve got fibers, we’ve got all matter of forensic evidence that we’ve collected from the house.”

Sills said they’ve also collected several other items of significance to the case that he can’t talk about.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/

BBM ^^

What else has he got...actual items the perp/s used from the home/garage or items they left behind?

 

[Carolinapeach]

Some hoodlums that hung out at the Publix ?

I think I can say no to this. We shop at this Publix often enough that I am sure hoodlums hanging out there or anywhere near there would be so out of place that someone would surely remember. JMO.

 

[Hickory Born]

“This is a very difficult case, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have forensic evidence. We’re running down leads today,” said Sills. “We’ve got fingerprints, we’ve got hairs, we’ve got fibers, we’ve got all matter of forensic evidence that we’ve collected from the house.”

Sills said they’ve also collected several other items of significance to the case that he can’t talk about.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/

BBM ^^

What else has he got...actual items the perp/s used from the home/garage or items they left behind?

Does he have one (or both) of the murder weapon?

If he has fingerprints then I am assuming the fingerprints don't belong to a past convicted felon...or anyone who has a license to carry. In Georgia you have to submit to fingerprinting if you want a license to carry a pistol.

 

[tomkat]

Wonder if they moved Mr D to the woods IF they removed his (speculation) firearm from him and shot him, and did the decapitation there. Perhaps, also found some forensics there...then perp/s moved his body back to the garage.

if not the garage, that makes more sense than them driving all over the roads back and forth, makes much sense, just wonder if people need to be on the lookout in the daytime, or late evening or after dark?!!

So they are thinking random now!??? hoodlums would be random, right, that means they are loose looking for their next kill

 

[Hickory Born]

Am I the only one who believes the reward has very little to do with raising an actual reward and more to do with data collection? Sort of like Sills asking neighbors to fill out a questionnaire about the Dermonds but really collecting finger prints?!

I immediately thought it was very weird that they keep pushing the tax deductible angle. Sills said specifically that his office would provide the tax deduction paperwork and that it was the first time a reward had been set up like this. It got me to thinking, "Could the format allow LE or the IRS to gain more financial info than they are allowed otherwise?" Low and behold, look what I found on the FBI website about money laundering investigative tools:

While investigating money laundering and asset forfeiture cases, investigators have numerous sources of information at their disposal. Nine prove as particularly useful.36

1) Bank Secrecy Act reports: Financial institutions, including some casinos and merchants, must file currency transaction reports, foreign bank account reports, suspicious activity reports (SARs), and similar documents with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN). These can help investigators connect laundered or concealed assets. SARs provide a tremendous source of intelligence, often actionable, and can help to proactively launch new investigations. They also assist investigations reactively by identifying accounts, no-show jobs, previously unknown associates, and many other valuable forms of information. SAR review teams exist around the country where multiple agencies examine the reports with prosecutors and choose viable targets. Financial institutions must provide the supporting documentation behind a SAR upon request from law enforcement. No subpoena is required.37

2) EGMONT: This network consists of the financial intelligence units of over 100 countries and permits law enforcement to request data in support of a significant money laundering or terrorist financing investigation. At a minimum, the information will include the requested country’s equivalent of SARs filed on the subjects of the request. No subpoena, prosecutor, or court involvement is needed, and law enforcement can make the request through FinCEN.

3) Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty: A formal request for records or enforcement action by a foreign country is made through DOJ’s Office of International Affairs.38

4) FEDWIRE: The New York Federal Reserve Bank can search names, addresses, and account numbers for any fund transfers done through its system. Often, this will reveal previously unknown beneficiaries and accounts.39

5) Clearing House Interbank Payment Systems (CHIPS): A subpoena can be served
to search the CHIPS network, used by financial institutions to process wire transfers.40

6) Mail covers: A request through the U.S. Postal Inspection Service will provide the information featured on the outside of envelopes. Often, this will identify financial institutions the subjects of the investigation deal with, as well as shell corporations, virtual offices, and phone companies.



Seized Assets from Operation Malicious Mortgage
7) Tax returns: Through a court order obtained by the U.S. Attorney’s Office, the investigator can examine relevant tax returns, which often will yield the location of accounts, as well as front companies and shell corporations through which individuals launder money.41 Investigators or prosecutors working with a subject who is cooperating or proffering can request the individual to sign IRS Form 8821, which authorizes the release of the subject’s tax records without the need for a court order.


8) Patriot Act 314(a) search: This likely is the most important money laundering tool available. Investigators can request FinCEN to post on a secure Web site the names of any individuals or entities who are subjects of a significant money laundering or terrorist financing investigation. All U.S. financial institutions then must advise the inquiring investigator of any accounts in the names of the requested subjects along with contact information for service of a subpoena. This method is far superior to serving a subpoena on the credit
bureaus because the investigator will learn of all domestic accounts and not just those linked to some form of credit. No subpoena, prosecutor, or court involvement is needed, and law enforcement can make the request through FinCEN.

9) Correspondent bank accounts: Virtually all foreign banks maintain correspondent accounts, also known as interbank accounts, in the United States to conduct American dollar transactions on behalf of their customers. These simply are accounts opened at U.S. banks in the name of a foreign financial institution. Even without jurisdiction over a foreign bank, investigators can serve a grand jury subpoena and receive records of any checks or wire transfers that cleared through the U.S. correspondent account on behalf of the foreign bank.42 By learning the senders or beneficiaries of these transactions, the investigator can determine the likely beneficial owners of the foreign account, as well as other foreign and domestic accounts involved in the money laundering cycle. And, where forfeitable funds are traced to a financial institution in a country that will not cooperate with the United States, DOJ can authorize the use of Section 981(k), a Patriot Act provision, which permits the seizure from a U.S. correspondent account of a sum equivalent to the amount of criminal proceeds laundered to the foreign bank. The U.S. correspondent bank relinquishes the money and provides the foreign bank with the seizure warrant so that the foreign bank can recoup the amount seized from its correspondent account by taking the same sum from its account holder. The foreign bank usually is not complicit in the money laundering but is subject to the seizure based on its role in holding the money launderer’s funds overseas. The Section 981(k) seizure authority can often be obtained within a few weeks.


Essentially, with American bank account numbers, they can then access foreign records they would otherwise not have permission to, amongst other things.

I think the reward account is just a tool to gain financial information from someone they might suspect, someone they think will donate...

So, if the reward is being set up for this reason, maybe Sills should have used the term a "rich hoodlum."