GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

[Xara]

I have been on another thread following a murder trial since last week. You all are so prolific in your postings that I don't stand a chance in catching up!

Has there been any important developments? I did catch that Sill's is asking for contributions to a reward fund...but that's the last new info I remember.

TIA

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ok I have a new theory. Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!:floorlaugh:

At one time I thought Russ may have been killed with a unique weapon he used to bludgeon him with but I just listened to one of the videos where Sills is talking about that and I now believe he was shot in the head like other posters have believed all along.

Sills seems to believe that Russ was shot and he knows Shirley was bludgeoned to death. He said the killer would know if they had recovered the bullet from Russ' skull during autopsy if they ever found the murder weapon it could be traced back to the murderer.

I still think its one murderer though. I just don't see it taking two people to do what he did.

Now my new theory:

The more I think about it I just don't think there was a lot of body moving going on. He kills Russ in the garage and decapitates him there. He may have forced Shirley to go with him at gunpoint or knifepoint and made her get on the boat. He may have even made her walk down the steps to the boat dock where his boat was sitting. I don't know how long it had been since she had her knee surgery. My sister in law had a knee replacement and within a few short weeks she was like a new woman. But the killer wouldn't care whether it was painful for her or not. That way he wouldn't have to murder her first then carry her to his boat.

He could have bound and gagged her in the garage before making her go with him. Once he got her out on the boat he may have told her to turn around, and not face him, and hit her over the head with a heavy weight steel tool he had in his boat. Maybe a heavy wrench. That way there would be no gunfire sound on the water late at night.

I keep thinking about the neighbor who said they heard a boat crank up on the water around 2am. I think that is when he forced Shirley onto the boat and he had Russ' head with him when they left.

IMO

 

[tlcya]

still mostly chasing our tails and parsing Sill's words oh so carefully trying to figure out what, if anything, he knows about who the perp(s) might be.

 

[AskMeNoQuestions]

I think when Sills refers to the "area in question" he is talking about the area of the lake where Mrs D's body was dumped/found.

 

[tlcya]

OBE I have often wondered if Shirley was forced to walk to the boat as a hostage and then when no longer needed, once some distance out on the water, she was struck from behind and placed in the water (either weighted or not) where she was later found.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm with you on it being the neighbors dock. Not to mention the location of the D's dock is in that inlet or leg, whatever you call it. I don't see how any neighbor could have a video at their own dock that would record activity at the D's dock.

A lot of video cameras can pan in a wide range view area. Not all of them are fixed on the same spot all the time and even if they are they still can get their neighbors property in the shots. This weren't wide property lots to begin with. We have one wide angled camera that pans back and forth and two more than are fixed on a certain part of our property.

I know I am one that doesn't agree or maybe the only one. But imo he was talking specifically about the Dermond's dock not the neighbor's dock imo.

I guess I base it on living in Georgia all my life and listening to countless Sheriffs over the years and the way they say things.

As a Georgian I interpreted it right off the bat that he was talking about "their" (Russ and Shirley's) boat dock since that was the subject matter at hand. That is what he was specifically looking for. He had no reason to even mention the neighbor's dock since he was talking about the Dermonds dock.

JMO though

 

[Nana46]

I think when Sills refers to the "area in question" he is talking about the area of the lake where Mrs D's body was dumped/found.

Agree....I think that is what he means.

 

[Eileen730]

OBE I have often wondered if Shirley was forced to walk to the boat as a hostage and then when no longer needed, once some distance out on the water, she was struck from behind and placed in the water (either weighted or not) where she was later found.

But why take her?
Why not leave her body with her husbands?

See I think Shirley was taken first while Mr D. was out somewhere this person didn't want to deal with the two of them at one time

 

[Bootsctr]

I read...somewhere...that a friend transported her to and from bridge because of mobility problems. From the article, it seemed she had knee surgery, but was still somewhat unstable. I think her dancing days were in the past. Eventhough they both seemed very mentally alert and active, they were both almost 90 and such easy prey for whatever did this to them.

From the link that treelights posted:

XXXXX XXXXX, who lives in a lakefront home near the Dermonds, carpooled to bridge meetings with Shirley Dermond.

XXXXX is the friend whose devotional prayer was that Dermond would be found. She also prays the Lord “will reveal who did this.”

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Rhyolite]

My theory number 2 is still with these guys.

1) A very disorganized bunch. Likely something could go fatally wrong.
2) Active before and after the Dermond case. Very mobile.
3) Possible activity in Texas, perhaps New Jersey since they used a NJ plate on getaway vehicle.
4) Targeted wealthy homes on water front in Florida.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/deputies-masked-men-caught-breaking-upscale-home/nfw9n/

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OBE I have often wondered if Shirley was forced to walk to the boat as a hostage and then when no longer needed, once some distance out on the water, she was struck from behind and placed in the water (either weighted or not) where she was later found.

Hi there ticya. Hope life is treating you well these days, my friend.:loveyou:

I certainly agree with you about forcing her to walk to the boat now that I have thought about it a lot more. When you say hostage do you mean he kidnapped her and held her against her will when he made her go with him? I think he knew as he forced her onto his boat he was going to kill her. This killer wasn't going to leave anyone behind that he knew could identify him.

I am beginning to believe he only did just what he thought was necessary and moving Shirley's body and going through all that trouble no longer makes logical sense to me.

Like I said a couple of days ago, I need to hang a sign on each of my posts saying "work in progress.' Usually by now I am pretty set in what I believe happened but the more I read.... especially when I go back and read them again a lot more closely... I seem to change my opinion and theory quite a lot in this case. Something new for me.

If they were inside an enclosed garage when he shot Russ in the head at close range then no one would hear it. Homes started in the 90s being built with a lot more sound absorbing materials.

But he would know if he shot Shirley out in the open inside of a boat the gunshot would be heard since sound travels faster and louder when there is nothing to block the sound and muffle it.

And he would know if he killed her in the garage he would then have to struggle getting her body into his boat.

Forcing her to go by knifepoint or gunpoint erases the need for him to transport her body to the boat. All he has to do is have one hand gripped tightly around her arm and carry Russ' head in a garbage bag with the other hand.

I wonder if they had garbage bags in their garage? We do have the big lawn bags in our garage at all times. If they found any I bet they were sent to the FBI to see if they had fingerprints on them that weren't theirs or any landscapers they may have had.

I think Sills should have told the boaters to be on the lookout for any garbage bags they may see floating or has gotten caught up in the trees. If he did use a garbage bag then they may still be able to get fingerprints off of it and especially if he used duct tape to close the garbage bag up. They can even match the bag to the same lot number of those found in the Dermond home if the killer used them.

IMO

 

[Bootsctr]

Did they both have knee replacements?

"Authorities were all but certain the corpse was Russell Dermond’s after they spoke with a family member who told them about an abnormality to one of his fingers and a surgical scar on his knee."

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/08/3087453/decapitation-unlikely-cause-of.html

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

Yes. Most definitely. Interesting. Connecting the dots . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[oceanblueeyes]

But why take her?
Why not leave her body with her husbands?

See I think Shirley was taken first while Mr D. was out somewhere this person didn't want to deal with the two of them at one time

Because he wanted it to 'appear' to everyone that Shirley was only missing and he hoped she would always be classified as only a 'missing' person.

IMO

 

[tlcya]

Hi there ticya. Hope life is treating you well these days, my friend.:loveyou:

I certainly agree with you about forcing her to walk to the boat now that I have thought about it a lot more. When you say hostage do you mean he kidnapped her and held her against her will when he made her go with him? I think he knew as he forced her onto his boat he was going to kill her. This killer wasn't going to leave anyone behind that he knew could identify him.

I am beginning to believe he only did just what he thought was necessary and moving Shirley's body and going through all that trouble no longer makes logical sense to me.

Like I said a couple of days ago, I need to hang a sign on each of my posts saying "work in progress.' Usually by now I am pretty set in what I believe happened but the more I read.... especially when I go back and read them again a lot more closely... I seem to change my opinion and theory quite a lot in this case. Something new for me.

If they were inside an enclosed garage when he shot Russ in the head at close range then no one would hear it. Homes started in the 90s being built with a lot more sound absorbing materials.

But he would know if he shot Shirley out in the open inside of a boat the gunshot would be heard since sound travels faster and louder when there is nothing to block the sound and muffle it.

And he would know if he killed her in the garage he would then have to struggle getting her body into his boat.

Forcing her to go by knifepoint or gunpoint erases the need for him to transport her body to the boat. All he has to do is have one hand gripped tightly around her arm and carry Russ' head in a garbage bag with the other hand.

I wonder if they had garbage bags in their garage? We do have the big lawn bags in our garage at all times. If they found any I bet they were sent to the FBI to see if they had fingerprints on them that weren't theirs or any landscapers they may have had.

I think Sills should have told the boaters to be on the lookout for any garbage bags they may see floating or has gotten caught up in the trees. If he did use a garbage bag then they may still be able to get fingerprints off of it and especially if he used duct tape to close the garbage bag up. They can even match the bag to the same lot number of those found in the Dermond home if the killer used them.

IMO

I agree. As to the BBM I think it was much easier to take a living hostage to the boat than an already unconscious or dead one. I think as long as she remained compliant it behooved him to keep her alive to dispose of at will later when further away from the murder scene at or near the home. I agree, she was never meant to be a living hostage for long or for ransom or any such thing.

As long as she believed she might live to see her family and was compliant there was zero need to kill her til perp was darn good and ready.

 

[Bootsctr]

Possible, although a surgical scar on a knee doesn't necessarily mean a replacement, imoo.

That's true. Could have just been a scope, but that is a much smaller incision, two actually. A knee replacement scar would be easily identified as pictured on Mrs. D's leg.

 

[Bootsctr]

I'm with you on it being the neighbors dock. Not to mention the location of the D's dock is in that inlet or leg, whatever you call it. I don't see how any neighbor could have a video at their own dock that would record activity at the D's dock.

:tyou: :ditto:

 

[Bootsctr]

OBE I have often wondered if Shirley was forced to walk to the boat as a hostage and then when no longer needed, once some distance out on the water, she was struck from behind and placed in the water (either weighted or not) where she was later found.

This makes me think Mrs. Dermond was most definitely weighted:

Dermond’s body was found in 46 feet of water, in a part of the lake where the tops of underwater trees jut close to or above the surface.

A source familiar with the investigation told The Telegraph that the body had been “placed” where it was found. The source did not elaborate.

Even so, the revelation indicates that Dermond’s corpse was not adrift and that authorities now have evidence of how her killer may have tried to hide her body.
Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html#storylink=cpy

You tether a boat or you anchor a boat if you do not want to be adrift. And you wouldn't dump somebody in 46 feet of water, weighted down and expect them to be found. JMO! I definitely do not think the perp reads here. He would know that a dead body will almost always rise.

 

[Bootsctr]

My theory number 2 is still with these guys.

1) A very disorganized bunch. Likely something could go fatally wrong.
2) Active before and after the Dermond case. Very mobile.
3) Possible activity in Texas, perhaps New Jersey since they used a NJ plate on getaway vehicle.
4) Targeted wealthy homes on water front in Florida.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/deputies-masked-men-caught-breaking-upscale-home/nfw9n/

I like your theory! 3 perps/hoodlums. Ugh! Sills said more than 1. These guys could be 3 stooges.

Ninjas! It's trending. :scared:

 

[loveboxerkisses]

Ya know how :websleuther: luck goes, you leave the threads, and the case breaks open! So :seeya: and thanks for the good luck....

Here are some of the pictures being referred to for your ease of viewing, and to capture them in the threads if we need them later.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/f02fd0c70b2aa9a46004f250c55356b2ba51cb5b/c=242-0-1678-1079&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/WXIA/WXIA/2014/05/07//






















:tyou:1399492205006-Still0507-00006.jpg

:tyou::tyou: I come on here on my phone and have the hardest time posting things lol but thank you for the pics! I tried that tapatalk thing and am lost on it! I'm so non tech stuff it's ridiculous: (

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree. As to the BBM I think it was much easier to take a living hostage to the boat than an already unconscious or dead one. I think as long as she remained compliant it behooved him to keep her alive to dispose of at will later when further away from the murder scene at or near the home. I agree, she was never meant to be a living hostage for long or for ransom or any such thing.

As long as she believed she might live to see her family and was compliant there was zero need to kill her til perp was darn good and ready.

I cant even begin to comprehend the fear Shirley must have had. I do think he bound her hands and gagged her with something or put duct tape over her mouth before he cut Russ' head off. And I think he did it right in front of her. Its a wonder she didn't have a heart attack trying endure all that was happening to her life and to the man she had loved for over 68 years.

The killer gave her no choice and there was no one around to help her or even knew what was happening to either of them.

Shirley would want to live so she could tell who had done this to Russ. She would do anything he said hoping by some chance he would let her live. We have seen so many cases about kidnapping victims who go with the suspect rather than trying to run or scream. I think they are just frozen with fear and think they can somehow talk the perp into letting them go if they are compliant, although it rarely ever happens.

This killer was bound and determined to make it look like Shirley was missing with whereabouts unknown and I have to agree with Sills on his take about that. He was not only using this as a diversionary tactic but he wanted others to suspect Shirley of doing this herself to her husband. If this wasn't true he would have just murdered Shirley right there in the garage along with Russ...left them both there and walked back into the dark of night.

He took more risks when he took her out on the boat not only to murder her but the time and effort it took him to find a spot to either weigh her down or throw her overboard. Plus coming back sight unseen. It was very important to him to set it up that Shirley appeared to only be missing.

How many cases do we read where someone has been found murdered and a family member is all of a sudden missing and they have to consider they may have been a victim too? Quite a few times and those that were 'missing' often turned out to be the suspect.

IMO