GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

[Canaille]

Hi there ticya. Hope life is treating you well these days, my friend.:loveyou:

I certainly agree with you about forcing her to walk to the boat now that I have thought about it a lot more. When you say hostage do you mean he kidnapped her and held her against her will when he made her go with him? I think he knew as he forced her onto his boat he was going to kill her. This killer wasn't going to leave anyone behind that he knew could identify him.

I am beginning to believe he only did just what he thought was necessary and moving Shirley's body and going through all that trouble no longer makes logical sense to me.

Like I said a couple of days ago, I need to hang a sign on each of my posts saying "work in progress.' Usually by now I am pretty set in what I believe happened but the more I read.... especially when I go back and read them again a lot more closely... I seem to change my opinion and theory quite a lot in this case. Something new for me.

If they were inside an enclosed garage when he shot Russ in the head at close range then no one would hear it. Homes started in the 90s being built with a lot more sound absorbing materials.

But he would know if he shot Shirley out in the open inside of a boat the gunshot would be heard since sound travels faster and louder when there is nothing to block the sound and muffle it.

And he would know if he killed her in the garage he would then have to struggle getting her body into his boat.

Forcing her to go by knifepoint or gunpoint erases the need for him to transport her body to the boat. All he has to do is have one hand gripped tightly around her arm and carry Russ' head in a garbage bag with the other hand.

I wonder if they had garbage bags in their garage? We do have the big lawn bags in our garage at all times. If they found any I bet they were sent to the FBI to see if they had fingerprints on them that weren't theirs or any landscapers they may have had.

I think Sills should have told the boaters to be on the lookout for any garbage bags they may see floating or has gotten caught up in the trees. If he did use a garbage bag then they may still be able to get fingerprints off of it and especially if he used duct tape to close the garbage bag up. They can even match the bag to the same lot number of those found in the Dermond home if the killer used them.

IMO

BBM

Hostage.

I wonder if they had a safe in the home. Maybe he took her alive and threatened her if she didn't give him the combination. Then killed her once she gave it to him.

I'm trying to think of other reasons to have taken her alive, if he did, but can't come up with much. Unless he just wanted to make her suffer.

I know that Sills stated she had been bludgeoned in the head (maybe not the exact word used), but I don't recall if he stated that she had one blow to the head or multiple. In my opinion, if she had multiple blows to the head, that would indicate hatred, anger, resentment, all that emotional stuff, etc. And if he had shot her while she was in the boat, not only would he risk the shot being heard, but may have hit the boat with the bullet.

I, too, think it was only one person who pulled this off.

 

[tlcya]

Shirley being taken elsewhere alive or dead before being placed where she was found IMO may have been any one or a combination of these

Confuse the issue (county of residence and county where located different)

Disposing of her in water bought time, whether that disposal was meant to be permanent or temporary

Could suggest that perp wanted LE to suspect Mrs. D or that Mrs. D was still living abductee whose life was in danger.

Makes me wonder what our perp may know about LE policy, investigative techniques, etc.

 

[Bootsctr]

I think when Sills refers to the "area in question" he is talking about the area of the lake where Mrs D's body was dumped/found.

In the video by Mark Winne and Sheriff Sills in the boat at Lake Oconee, the scene opens with the boat being lowered from storage into the water and then the next scene is tight on Sheriff Sills. It then opens up wider and is focused COMPLETELY on the neighbors' house and dock. It is focused on most of the interview and then they gradually move to the Dermonds' dock. Will look for the link to that interview. I did save it, but I have saved so much stuff. Anyway, from that interview, I definitely got the impression that the "area in question" is the Dermond's dock.

 

[Canaille]

The more I think about it I just don't think there was a lot of body moving going on.
IMO

BBM

And snipped only for focus

I keep thinking back to when this happened and whatever wording Sills used about Mr D being moved. Whatever he said made me picture that the body had only been moved a few feet. Like moved from the yard and into the garage.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This makes me think Mrs. Dermond was most definitely weighted:



You tether a boat or you anchor a boat if you do not want to be adrift. And you wouldn't dump somebody in 46 feet of water, weighted down and expect them to be found. JMO! I definitely do not think the perp reads here. He would know that a dead body always rises.

I am at a loss..........what do you mean by 'expect them to be found?'

Sills said he is convinced the killer never expected her to rise to the surface. I don't think this killer ever expected her to rise either and that is why he went through all the trouble of putting her in the water in the first place.

Many bodies that have gone into a watery tomb either by accident or murder are never found. My neighbor went into about 40 feet of water when she committed suicide. They had the divers and searches from boats out on the lake within an hour after eye witnesses saw her jump. Her body has never been found and that was over 5 years ago. All that was ever found was the little knit cap she always wore due to being a terminally ill patient. It washed ashore about a month later far away from where she went in.

I don't think every body would rise if weighted down with something heavy but as they remain under the water decomposing the flesh/tissue/organs will be eaten away by whatever marine species is in that body of water. Then the bones will begin to break apart and scatter on the lake bottom.

 

[Bootsctr]

Shirley being taken elsewhere alive or dead before being placed where she was found IMO may have been any one or a combination of these

Confuse the issue (county of residence and county where located different)

Disposing of her in water bought time, whether that disposal was meant to be permanent or temporary

Could suggest that perp wanted LE to suspect Mrs. D or that Mrs. D was still living abductee whose life was in danger.

Makes me wonder what our perp may know about LE policy, investigative techniques, etc.

I've always been of the opinion this was someone familiar with LE techniques and not medical expertise. Maybe was a security guard at one point, a night watchman, a wanna be cop. :moo:

 

[atthelake]

:tyou::tyou: I come on here on my phone and have the hardest time posting things lol but thank you for the pics! I tried that tapatalk thing and am lost on it! I'm so non tech stuff it's ridiculous: (

Lol that is why i try to do photos vs links as tapatalk s#&#s to work with links. Tried today to do more from the tax assessor office but blew margins so tlcya was kind enough to do thumbnail copies for me... I need to scroll back up to see if they appear as photos through tapatalk on smartphone .

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM

And snipped only for focus

I keep thinking back to when this happened and whatever wording Sills used about Mr D being moved. Whatever he said made me picture that the body had only been moved a few feet. Like moved from the yard and into the garage.

Hi there Cana!

I think he said his torso was dragged a few feet or maybe he said only a short distance.

I don't really know but in my mind I thought he meant dragged a little ways when it was already inside the garage as if he needed to drag him only a short distance so that his torso may have been hidden behind one of their cars or something like that. Of course we have no clue where the drag marks are located in the garage and only Sills and the investigators know that.

Just guessing though.

IMO

 

[atthelake]

In the video by Mark Winne and Sheriff Sills in the boat at Lake Oconee, the scene opens with the boat being lowered from storage into the water and then the next scene is tight on Sheriff Sills. It then opens up wider and is focused COMPLETELY on the neighbors' house and dock. It is focused on most of the interview and then they gradually move to the Dermonds' dock. Will look for the link to that interview. I did save it, but I have saved so much stuff. Anyway, from that interview, I definitely got the impression that the "area in question" is the Dermond's dock.

Respectfully boot, how do you know neighbours dock as had so many venues in that .

TIA

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Bootsctr]

I am at a loss..........what do you mean by 'expect them to be found?'

Sills said he is convinced the killer never expected her to rise to the surface. I don't think this killer ever expected her to rise either and that is why he went through all the trouble of putting her in the water in the first place.

Many bodies that have gone into a watery tomb either by accident or murder are never found. My neighbor went into about 40 feet of water when she committed suicide. They had the divers and searches from boats out on the lake within an hour after eye witnesses saw her jump. Her body has never been found and that was over 5 years ago. All that was ever found was the little knit cap she always wore due to being a terminally ill patient. It washed ashore about a month later far away from where she went in.

I don't think every body would rise if weighted down with something heavy but as they remain under the water decomposing the flesh/tissue/organs will be eaten away by whatever marine species is in that body of water. Then the bones will begin to break apart and scatter on the lake bottom.

Yes, Ocean. You are correct. I think the perp expected what you describe - body never being found because of decomposition and being eaten by fish, turtles, etc and that's why he dumped here where the lake was sooo deep. He's familiar enough with the lake to know where it's deep. Of course, it's deep right off the Dermond's pier.

I'm sorry about your friend. She committed suicide by drowning? If so, that must be very rare. Maybe not. I have never thought about it. Her lungs would have been filled with water. She would have sunk to the bottom from the weight of the water in her lungs. Mrs. Dermond was dead before she was dumped. Her lungs would not have filled with water. That was determined - Mrs. Dermond was dead before being dumped - no water in the lungs. . . thus, I believe, she did not sink to the bottom. She sunk as far as the weight took her. When the decomposition began. . . well. . . I'll just leave that part out there.

 

[Happyshoes]

Am still here and appreciate all your info, don't want to be thought of as a drive-by poster. This is so troubling. Going to read some more, thanks to all.

 

[Bootsctr]

Respectfully boot, how do you know neighbours dock as had so many venues in that .

TIA

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:seeya: I'm not sure I understand your question. Venues ? No disrespect intended. BRB! Gotta walk the :beagle:

 

[Sweetgrits]

I am sure Sills was very clear in what he said. The journalist only quoted part of the conversation and left it unclear as to whether "their" referred to neighbor's dock or Dermonds'. The journalist probably didn't write the article expecting us sleuths to parse every word for multiple possible meanings.

My vote is he was talking about the neighbors' dock being clearly shown. First why would a neighbor point his security camera at the Dermonds' dock and not his own? Second, if a boat was used to transport SD's body and it left from the Dermond property, why did it not moor at the dock? Otherwise, the captain would have to wade from the boat to the shore and back again, which I think would be unlikely. Especially if he had a body to get in the boat.

It just seems more plausible this way.

I have to agree with you. I think "their" referred to the neighbors dock. JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM

Hostage.

I wonder if they had a safe in the home. Maybe he took her alive and threatened her if she didn't give him the combination. Then killed her once she gave it to him.

I'm trying to think of other reasons to have taken her alive, if he did, but can't come up with much. Unless he just wanted to make her suffer.

I know that Sills stated she had been bludgeoned in the head (maybe not the exact word used), but I don't recall if he stated that she had one blow to the head or multiple. In my opinion, if she had multiple blows to the head, that would indicate hatred, anger, resentment, all that emotional stuff, etc. And if he had shot her while she was in the boat, not only would he risk the shot being heard, but may have hit the boat with the bullet.

I, too, think it was only one person who pulled this off.

But why would they go to all that trouble though when it wouldn't even be necessary?

Don't you think any woman in her right mind that had just seen a murderer kill and decapitate her husband would blurt out the combination immediately to any safe they may have had? Taking her hostage wouldn't even be necessary. In fact if that is what they wanted and they had a gun I think Russ or Shirley both would have given it to them right away. A lot of people don't keep safes anymore in their homes because break ins have increased in recent years and use safety deposit boxes at the bank.

The ME never states whether there were multiple blows or not when coming up with the COD. They always put they died from blunt force trauma to the head. They will testify to how many blows of course if and when the suspect is arrested and brought to trial. I think she died from multiple blows.

See so many seem to think the rage was against Russ but to me a murder by a shot to the head is not an up close and personal method of killing someone. But bludgeoning someone to death is a very up close and personal way to murder someone. Usually when that is the way the murder is carried out it is because of anger, rage, resentment or hatred of some kind against the victim by the perpetrator.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, Ocean. You are correct. I think the perp expected what you describe - body never being found because of decomposition and being eaten by fish, turtles, etc and that's why he dumped here where the lake was sooo deep. He's familiar enough with the lake to know where it's deep. Of course, it's deep right off the Dermond's pier.

I'm sorry about your friend. She committed suicide by drowning? If so, that must be very rare. Maybe not. I have never thought about it. Her lungs would have been filled with water. She would have sunk to the bottom from the weight of the water in her lungs. Mrs. Dermond was dead before she was dumped. Her lungs would not have filled with water. That was determined - Mrs. Dermond was dead before being dumped - no water in the lungs. . . thus, I believe, she did not sink to the bottom. She sunk as far as the weight took her. When the decomposition began. . . well. . . I'll just leave that part out there.

You would think since Shirley still had air trapped inside of her lungs when thrown overboard if he killed her and immediately threw her in she would have floated for a little while. She didn't drown and the lungs had not filled up with water you would think she would have floated for awhile and then sank ....unless of course she was weighted down as you have stated. Then she would go down immediately.

When children or adults drown in a pool they immediately sink to the bottom of the pool and most of the time that is where a family member finds them. It is because the air in the lungs have been replaced by much heavier water. It is the air in our lungs that helps us float in a pool, ocean..... etc.

Drowning victims, accidently or otherwise) sink like a rock and I think that is what happened to my friend/neighbor and this was also a big lake and has deep hidden crevices and under currents in it too. It really is hard to find a body who has gone into water unless its hot weather and the temp of the water makes them rise faster. When Mrs. Corey went into the water it was Christmas Eve and the water was very cold.

Sadly suicide by drowning isn't that uncommon.

IMO

 

[tomkat]

I think when Sills refers to the "area in question" he is talking about the area of the lake where Mrs D's body was dumped/found.

If you are refering to to the neighbors video, that would be the Dermond's property, SD was found 5 miles away

 

[Bootsctr]

Excellent interview! The rest of Mark Winne's report after talking to Sheriff Sills on the water. Unseen stuff from the previous video.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/

 

[Montjoy]

Sadly suicide by drowning isn't that uncommon.

IMO

rsbm --

Actually, just speaking by the numbers, yes, suicide by drowning is uncommon. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. And the way that this website acts as a filter for unexplained deaths, we do hear about it a fair bit when there is any ambiguity about the MOD. But yeah, statistically, it is definitely not common, and it is fair to say that it is uncommon.

 

[Bootsctr]

Respectfully boot, how do you know neighbours dock as had so many venues in that .

TIA

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

I think I understand your question now. The second Mark Winne video with Sheriff Sills does show A LOT of venues, but the first video we saw:

1. A boat being lowered into the water (Sills was telling us how he thought the perps came by water) from storage.

2. Screen widens to focus on neighbors across the cove from the Dermonds and they sit there a good while and ALL you see is that neighbor's house (back of the house) and their pier.

3. Then he takes us to the Dermond's pier. Talks about evidence being obtained.

Here is #1 video with only three venues mentioned above: <RAW VIDEO>

http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/raw-video-sheriff-discusses-reynolds-plantation/vCcz4n/

Here is #2 video with many venues: <EDITED VIDEO> Excellent video! Need to listen again!

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/

 

[Bootsctr]

rsbm --

Actually, just speaking by the numbers, yes, suicide by drowning is uncommon. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. And the way that this website acts as a filter for unexplained deaths, we do hear about it a fair bit when there is any ambiguity about the MOD. But yeah, statistically, it is definitely not common, and it is fair to say that it is uncommon.

Thank you for posting! I wonder about Mr. Harrod ALL the time. His case comes up quite frequently on ID. I need to check out his thread and see if any progress has been made in his case. Tragic! Very sad.