GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 7

[Happyshoes]

to mck 16: White shrimp - I should have said Wild Georgia Shrimp. Atlantic fresh caught in coastal waters, no chemicals or antibiotics, never farm raised. Certified strict quality controls.
www.wildgeorgiashrimp.com (click "everything about...") They are so delish!!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

But what about at night and she was bound and gagged, duct tape, whatever. No way would they take her out without making she couldn't scream for help. They laid her in the boat.

On the other hand, killing her in the boat would also leave blood evidence.

You're right. Killing her in the boat doesn't really make sense. :facepalm:

It makes perfect sense to me.

Whoever this is would bind and gag Shirley before even making her walk down the steps to the boat. They sure wouldn't take all those risks with a woman... who they knew would be screaming her guts out... if she was given the opportunity. Imo, they used zip ties to bind her wrists behind her back and they put duct tape across her mouth probably winding it around her head to make sure it didn't come off. Once she was dead they removed the bindings and threw her overboard in the area they had selected. IMO

Boats are made to be washed down both inside and out so if there was any blood in his boat all he had to do is pressure hose it down. So killing her in the boat makes much more sense to me.

JMO though......

 

[oceanblueeyes]

to mck 16: White shrimp - I should have said Wild Georgia Shrimp. Atlantic fresh caught in coastal waters, no chemicals or antibiotics, never farm raised. Certified strict quality controls.
www.wildgeorgiashrimp.com (click "everything about...") They are so delish!!

They are absolutely delish. I just grilled my adorable hubby some white shrimp along with a thick Porterhouse steak on the grill for Father's Day along with all the trimmings. Yum....

 

[mck16]

to mck 16: White shrimp - I should have said Wild Georgia Shrimp. Atlantic fresh caught in coastal waters, no chemicals or antibiotics, never farm raised. Certified strict quality controls.
www.wildgeorgiashrimp.com (click "everything about...") They are so delish!!

I looked them up and I must say they do look delish. I am wondering if they will be sold in fish markets in other states. I love shrimp. ty

 

[mck16]

They are absolutely delish. I just grilled my adorable hubby some white shrimp along with a thick Porterhouse steak on the grill for Father's Day along with all the trimmings. Yum....

Sounds wonderful. Lucky Papa. ty

 

[Treelights]

It makes perfect sense to me.

Whoever this is would bind and gag Shirley before even making her walk down the steps to the boat. They sure wouldn't take all those risks with a woman... who they knew would be screaming her guts out... if she was given the opportunity. Imo, they used zip ties to bind her wrists behind her back and they put duct tape across her mouth probably winding it around her head to make sure it didn't come off. Once she was dead they removed the bindings and threw her overboard in the area they had selected. IMO

Boats are made to be washed down both inside and out so if there was any blood in his boat all he had to do is pressure hose it down. So killing her in the boat makes much more sense to me.

JMO though......

OFF TOPIC:
You are right about boats are made to be washed down both inside and out, as I can attest to that in my fishing experience in Cabo. I was so sea sick I was "chumming" off the side of the boat!! (And then and only then my husband caught a mahi mahi!!)
IMOO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I keep trying to picture what kind of boat everybody is thinking of and I assume there are many different ideas. Some posters have suggested that the boat might have been too small to transport two bodies. That would be a very small boat and swinging bats or crow bars with enough force to kill might tip the thing over. I would have imagined a bigger boat. A pontoon would be the easiest for both bringing body (or live person) on board and certainly easier for pushing the body overboard. Certainly wouldn't tip over with head bashing going on. A bass boat or deck boat would be fast and I wouldn't want to be at troll speed transport a corpse. Bass boat not so good for committing the murder, deck boar better, but I don't see that either,

I have changed my mind about the boat. I think the perp's came by a road vehicle and took Shirley that way after she had been killed. Later she would be put on the boat either at the perp's house or driven to where the perp had access to a boat. If the boat were on a trailer, I presume it would be put in at the Long Shoals boat ramp which is very near the recovery site.

I can't picture somebody taking the risk of parading Shirley live or dead down to her dock.

Motive for taking Shirley? Already been discussed here. Confuse LE and leave open the possibility that she had done this herself, which is nuts.

They did NOT mean for her body to be found. Sills has said that in several different ways,

JMO, can't wait to hear yours.

It would even be doable in a small 12-14 foot jon boat. Lake Oconee is much easier to navigate than the San Francisco Bay but Scott Peterson used his jon boat to transport Laci and Conner's bodies 85 miles to the bay. He then went out for miles to throw Laci overboard facing the waves, winds and strong currents. And Laci was almost 9 months pregnant and weighed more than 148 pounds when she was murdered. His boat did not overturn. All one has to do is put the body up on the upper rim of the boat and gravity will take care of the rest and off the side the body goes immediately down into the water.

And striking a defenseless woman, who I think had been bound and gagged, wouldn't be hard to do at all and it could be done very quickly. One forceful swing could have rendered her unconscious. She may have never known what was coming next.

I have seen fishermen in small jon boats catch large river gar and have to bludgeon them to death with a hammer or some other tool they have on board because the gar was alive when it was thrown in the boat and it has a needle nosed mouth filled with razor sharp teeth. Some of the gar I have seen are over 6 feet long. No one fell overboard nor did the boat capsize.

To me much more risks would have to be taken if he got out on the roadway in a vehicle plus evidence is harder to get rid of in a vehicle than it would be in a washable boat. If he had gone out the front gate the guards would have seen him. His vehicle also may have GPS that could plot his movements that night.

If this was done in the early morning hours when dark no one would see anyone on the backside of the Dermonds home. He used darkness as his cover and no one ever dreamed this was happening to the Dermonds. They thought all was well in their supposedly safe neighborhood.

IMO

 

[tomkat]

I Personally Dont See many Boasts That Can't TransporT 4 To 6 @ Least, jon Boats IvThinK Would Work, No Concern For The,Deads Comfort, Just Thrown In

I keep trying to picture what kind of boat everybody is thinking of and I assume there are many different ideas. Some posters have suggested that the boat might have been too small to transport two bodies. That would be a very small boat and swinging bats or crow bars with enough force to kill might tip the thing over. I would have imagined a bigger boat. A pontoon would be the easiest for both bringing body (or live person) on board and certainly easier for pushing the body overboard. Certainly wouldn't tip over with head bashing going on. A bass boat or deck boat would be fast and I wouldn't want to be at troll speed transport a corpse. Bass boat not so good for committing the murder, deck boar better, but I don't see that either,

I have changed my mind about the boat. I think the perp's came by a road vehicle and took Shirley that way after she had been killed. Later she would be put on the boat either at the perp's house or driven to where the perp had access to a boat. If the boat were on a trailer, I presume it would be put in at the Long Shoals boat ramp which is very near the recovery site.

I can't picture somebody taking the risk of parading Shirley live or dead down to her dock.

Motive for taking Shirley? Already been discussed here. Confuse LE and leave open the possibility that she had done this herself, which is nuts.

They did NOT mean for her body to be found. Sills has said that in several different ways,

JMO, can't wait to hear yours.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sounds wonderful. Lucky Papa. ty

We are the ones who are very blessed and lucky to have him.

Our daughter in law has made him a homemade red velvet cake (his favorite) and they will be here soon.

He asked about dessert and I told him I didn't feel like making it but maybe I would later on. He has no idea one has already been made especially for him. lol

IMO

 

[mck16]

We are the ones who are very blessed and lucky to have him.

Our daughter in law has made him a homemade red velvet cake (his favorite) and they will be here soon.

He asked about dessert and I told him I didn't feel like making it but maybe I would later on. He has no idea one has already been made especially for him. lol

IMO

That's so cool. Enjoy your family time together.

 

[lakeoconee]

It would even be doable in a small 12-14 foot jon boat. Lake Oconee is much easier to navigate than the San Francisco Bay but Scott Peterson used his jon boat to transport Laci and Conner's bodies 85 miles to the bay. He then went out for miles to throw Laci overboard facing the waves, winds and strong currents. And Laci was almost 9 months pregnant and weighed more than 148 pounds when she was murdered. His boat did not overturn. All one has to do is put the body up on the upper rim of the boat and gravity will take care of the rest and off the side the body goes immediately down into the water.

And striking a defenseless woman, who I think had been bound and gagged, wouldn't be hard to do at all and it could be done very quickly. One forceful swing could have rendered her unconscious. She may have never known what was coming next.

I have seen fishermen in small jon boats catch large river gar and have to bludgeon them to death with a hammer or some other tool they have on board because the gar was alive when it was thrown in the boat and it has a needle nosed mouth filled with razor sharp teeth. Some of the gar I have seen are over 6 feet long. No one fell overboard nor did the boat capsize.

To me much more risks would have to be taken if he got out on the roadway in a vehicle plus evidence is harder to get rid of in a vehicle than it would be in a washable boat. If he had gone out the front gate the guards would have seen him. His vehicle also may have GPS that could plot his movements that night.

If this was done in the early morning hours when dark no one would see anyone on the backside of the Dermonds home. He used darkness as his cover and no one ever dreamed this was happening to the Dermonds. They thought all was well in their supposedly safe neighborhood.

IMO

So, you say a small boat. That might go how fast? If they left from the dock that's 5 1/2 miles.

 

[OTPTarheel]

The murders occurred the weekend before Mother's Day. Could someone have told the security guard at GW they had a surprise delivery and they would have let the murderer
in ? Any FedEx/ UPS trucks/ white delivery trucks/ vans that you could stick a magnetic sign on and get in GW? About shift change? So the first guy lets the perp in and the subsequent guard didn't know the perp is there because the first guy broke
Policy? Or the guard knew the guy and let him in? And now is too afraid to talk because the murderer is threatening him and he's gonna go to jail either way. JMO.
I just keep thinking about Lita Sullivan...and that delivery...
Just my wild and crazy brain!

 

[mck16]

The murders occurred the weekend before Mother's Day. Could someone have told the security guard at GW they had a surprise delivery and they would have let the murderer
in ? Any FedEx/ UPS trucks/ white delivery trucks/ vans that you could stick a magnetic sign on and get in GW? About shift change? So the first guy lets the perp in and the subsequent guard didn't know the perp is there because the first guy broke
Policy? Or the guard knew the guy and let him in? And now is too afraid to talk because the murderer is threatening him and he's gonna go to jail either way. JMO.
I just keep thinking about Lita Sullivan...and that delivery...
Just my wild and crazy brain!

This is a good theory, but Mother's Day was the following weekend. But, it could work for any weekend I think. jmo

 

[Bootsctr]

OFF TOPIC:
You are right about boats are made to be washed down both inside and out, as I can attest to that in my fishing experience in Cabo. I was so sea sick I was "chumming" off the side of the boat!! (And then and only then my husband caught a mahi mahi!!)
IMOO.

Mahi mahi - yummy, yummy. Shrimp very yummy w/boiled taters and corn. We've got some lucky dads out there!

 

[Bootsctr]

Craniocerebral trauma - Mr. D's cause of death. Could the perp have stabbed Mr. D in the back of his neck below the skull? That would take a powerful stab; but have could have severed the spine from the head - not completely beheading him at that moment, but rendering him helpless and not severing major arteries so not a lot of blood.

Still doesn't explain the head being removed and taken from the scene if it was a knife because a knife could have been removed instead of taking the whole head.

I'm thinking like Jo in California - maybe LE has partial DNA pattern or a partial print. I think it is someone right there in GW/RP. Someone who is staying with someone within the community and isn't giving off any bad vibes. Maybe someone who missed out filling out the sheriff's questionnaire.

Why so comfortable in staying at the scene of the crime so long if indeed they did hang around a while? How long has this person watched the Dermonds? Are they just familiar enough with the Dermonds that finding their fingerprints at the house or boat dock would not set off alarms unless it was a bloody print with Mr. or Mrs. Dermond's blood? or even their own blood? Geez! Who is this person or persons?

 

[osu]

This probably doesn't have anything to do with this case, but a Jon boat and trailer were reported stolen from Putnam County and recovered in another town approx 20 minutes away. The police log doesn't say when the boat was reported stolen.

•On May 29 the JCSO reported the recovery of a John boat and trailer which were reported stolen out of Putnam County.

http://themonticellonews.com/dnr-arrests-three-on-jackson-lake-road-p10902-1.htm

 

[1&2&3]

Just thinking of several things from above posts. If guards at entrance knew the cameras were down, they could have been a bit lax on checking cars. Also, if they are of the caliber of some rent-a- cops, one of that type may have been on duty. Would it be possible for a person to slip a guard money to let him in? Did LE give polygraphs to the guards immediately as they did gardners at GW?

Now it seems we are thinking it is a younger person, mid 20's, so they would live with someone and would not have filled out a questionnaire. Thus, his fingerprints would not have been obtained by Sills. Wonder if the questionnaire asked the ages of people living in each house?

Gee, am I full of questions on my thoughts today! Hope each of you have had a beautiful day with the fathers in your life.

 

[Cardinal47]

But what about at night and she was bound and gagged, duct tape, whatever. No way would they take her out without making she couldn't scream for help. They laid her in the boat.

On the other hand, killing her in the boat would also leave blood evidence.

You're right. Killing her in the boat doesn't really make sense. :facepalm:

Of course it doesn't make sense. No way would a person that kills and beheads an elderly man take the wife alive and flailing around to a boat in the lake and kill her. Why do that for heavens sake?

If she did go to the place she was found it happened in the dead of night and I am pretty sure she was dead.

BTW I am not convinced she wasn't simply thrown into the water at some point and the current took her to where she was found. Therefore no boat would have been necessary.

 

[Cardinal47]

As far as I know nobody heard any screams. NONAME (or something like that the two time poster) said that her patient's yard man had heard voices from the Dermond's house on late Saturday afternoon or early evening.

I was busy posting about this when WS went down this morning and didn't bother try it again til your question,

The Dermond house has a screen porch that runs along the outside of their garage--on the I guess west side of their house. They had a television out there and I have been told that neighbors would hear them talking (just voices) or the tv in the evening. They could also see the light from the television through the trees at times.

Look at the tax assessor's floor plan and you can see the screen porch outlined.

Somehow "hearing voices inside the house" got morphed into loud voices,etc...

I don't have much faith in the report anyway. Don't mean that the poster wasn't sincere. Just that contractors and others are supposed to be out of there earlier than that. Nobody wants to listen to leaf blowers etc. I think the day the person might have heard voices could be off because the D;s were mostly liked dead for hours by then.

But everybody can put their own spin on this

Well that's interesting that they watched tv out on the screened in porch. Really made themselves targets for anybody out on the lake looking for trouble.

Screens are easy to cut and could have been cut earlier and they would have been right in with the Dermonds at any time.

Most elderly people are a bit hard of hearing so they might not have even been aware somebody was coming for them until way too late.

I wonder if the evidence people found any sign of a struggle out on that porch?

 

[Cardinal47]

I keep trying to picture what kind of boat everybody is thinking of and I assume there are many different ideas. Some posters have suggested that the boat might have been too small to transport two bodies. That would be a very small boat and swinging bats or crow bars with enough force to kill might tip the thing over. I would have imagined a bigger boat. A pontoon would be the easiest for both bringing body (or live person) on board and certainly easier for pushing the body overboard. Certainly wouldn't tip over with head bashing going on. A bass boat or deck boat would be fast and I wouldn't want to be at troll speed transport a corpse. Bass boat not so good for committing the murder, deck boar better, but I don't see that either,

I have changed my mind about the boat. I think the perp's came by a road vehicle and took Shirley that way after she had been killed. Later she would be put on the boat either at the perp's house or driven to where the perp had access to a boat. If the boat were on a trailer, I presume it would be put in at the Long Shoals boat ramp which is very near the recovery site.

I can't picture somebody taking the risk of parading Shirley live or dead down to her dock.

Motive for taking Shirley? Already been discussed here. Confuse LE and leave open the possibility that she had done this herself, which is nuts.

They did NOT mean for her body to be found. Sills has said that in several different ways,

JMO, can't wait to hear yours.

I an curious. Is there anyplace near where she was found that she could have been dropped into the water after she was dead and drifted to the place she was found? Perhaps a boat was not used at all.