GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 8

[Rhyolite]

That's true (always cracks me up when these people are spilling their guts to an undercover cop)....but seriously, how do you find a fisherman/hunter who would use this method? Could someone have told the perp when/where/how as to best get it done? I'm on thin ice here, I can feel it. Help!

You could ask nao. Sounds like he has some experience (shudder)..

 

[Rhyolite]

BBM

This is just my opinion, but the maybe the reason that it took so long for phone records that is LE requested information going back multiply years (even possibly multiply phone numbers from previous residences). [Not sure how long that information is stored and was not able to find anything definitive do a simple on-line search]

If LE is looking for a connection to some something or a person from their past even if the contact was limited, they may have wanted more than just the normal 3 to 6 month phone records that I believe is normal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victimology#Victim_facilitation

 

[tomkat]

hmmmm.........

“The longest it ever took me was two weeks to figure out who did it and arrest who did it,” Sills said.

http://www.macon.com/2014/07/04/3182871/phone-records-released-in-dermond.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1




Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2014/07/04/318...-dermond.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1#storylink=cpy

Dang, at first glance, I thought the headline below meant "to the public" (thus to us)! Should have known better, but it fooled me for a second.



more at: http://www.macon.com/2014/07/04/3182871/phone-records-released-in-dermond.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1


O/T: This new forum setup is, well, ummm, a little different, huh? So far I've encountered nothing I think I can't get used to. But, right now -- I think my brain hurts.

 

[Happyshoes]

The way i cut thru vertebra, is with a heavy knife and hammer, there would be so much blood if done while alive because of the neck jugulars. By taking head and hiding Shirley, it did stall things-it could of been Shirley - but then she was found. its just that nothing of value was taken, and person/persons was there for awhile,, -whats the motive??? jmo

I take it you know how to dress a deer..? It has to be someone who knows that lake; I find it hard to imagine someone would think to leave Mr. D there and take Mrs. D to a different spot. Why? I have a hard time thinking kidnapping.

 

[Happyshoes]

Really..

 

[Treelights]

"Sills said they eliminated several suspects early on..." (snipped by me )
http://www.macon.com/2014/07/04/3182871/phone-records-released-in-dermond.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1

Early on they had suspects, but they eliminated them...
I wonder who these people are and why were they considered "suspects" at one time?
IMOO.

 

[Foxfire]

"Sills said they eliminated several suspects early on..." (snipped by me )
http://www.macon.com/2014/07/04/3182871/phone-records-released-in-dermond.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1

Early on they had suspects, but they eliminated them...
I wonder who these people are and why were they considered "suspects" at one time?
IMOO.

Prolly the folks with opportunity, Treelights. The likely suspects in most homicide investigations; family, friends, neighbors, contractors, witnesses, etc., imo... All have to be ruled out..

Day one of the Dermond investigation: "The only one who's not a suspect is me because I know where I was," Sherrif Sills..

 

[Foxfire]

Just an FYI- Websleuths Thread - Kimster (WS Adminstrator, Verified Posters Liaison) ;

TV Producers want WS Stories

The Learning Channel Wants You! Dateline Wants You! A "Mystery"Channel Wants You! Danielle Wilkerson of The Learning Channel has come to Websleuths for case ideas. TLC needs cases that are already solved where someone other than law enforcement helped solve the case. Daniel Slepian of Dateline needs your stories. No requirements. A Mystery Production CO. and Cable Network need your stories too. Come in, read and participate.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?260-TV-Producers-want-WS-Stories

 

[DAMIFINO]

"Sills said they eliminated several suspects early on..." (snipped by me )
http://www.macon.com/2014/07/04/3182871/phone-records-released-in-dermond.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1

Early on they had suspects, but they eliminated them...
I wonder who these people are and why were they considered "suspects" at one time?
IMOO.

Or that's what he wanted the killers to think so maybe they would let their guard down, go about their business and maybe do something incriminating.

 

[DAMIFINO]

You could ask nao. Sounds like he has some experience (shudder)..

nao was just telling you how he dresses a deer. He probably has a full freezer. Good for you, nao.

 

[Foxfire]

Imo, there could be any one of a number of reasons that the Dermonds were indirectly targeted by NC fanatical followers or paramilitary security force. It may be something as simple as Mr or Mrs D serving on the DM York grand jury, or the jury that later convicted DMY in Putnam County, GA, for multiple counts of child molestation, their vulnerability, secluded lakeside lot, etc.

DM York's motives, were no different than cult leaders David Koresh, Jim Jones, Yahweh Ben Yahweh in Fl(cult enforcers suspected of 23 murders), or Charles Manson, etc. Manson selected Sharon Tate and the other innocent victims at random; wrong place, right time..The murders perpetrated by members of Charles Manson's "Family" were inspired in part by Manson's belief in Helter Skelter

With even the slightest possibility that the NC(terrorist group) may be involved, there should be many state and federal agencies, including the GBI assisting in the Dermond murder/abduction/decapitation investigation, imo.

In the TN abduction of Holly Bobo 04/2011, the DCSO, TBI, THP, FBI/BAU2, Homeland Security, US Marshals, Civil Defense, etc, were all heavily involved in the initial investigation.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...all-issues/2002/fall/savior-in-a-strange-land (4 Pages Total)

Intelligence Report, Fall 2002,
United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors Meets Its Match in Georgia
<sniped read more>

 

[Foxfire]

The FBI BAU conducted a symposium on serial murder in September 2005, where the definition of a serial killer was changed from 3 victims to only 2. In combining the various ideas put forth at the Symposium, the following definition was crafted:

Serial Murder: The unlawful killing of two or more victims by the same offender(s), in separate events.
&#8226; one or more offenders
&#8226; two or more murdered victims
&#8226; incidents should be occurring in separate events, at different times
&#8226; the time period between murders separates serial murder from mass murder

The Dermond murderer/s would not be defined as serial, nor would the investigation be identical as a serial investigation. But many of the issues discussed, conclusions, and recommendations made by the symposium attendees do apply in other high profile investigations such as mass murders involving sadistic psychopaths, imo..

FBI - Serial Murder
Multi-Disciplinary Perspectives For Investigators
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder/serial-murder-1#six

Behavioral Analysis Unit-2
National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime
Critical Incident Response Group
Federal Bureau of Investigation

- VI. Investigative Issues and Best Practices
- VII. Forensic Issues in Serial Murder Cases
- VIII. Prosecution of Serial Murder Cases
- IX. Media Issues in Serial Murder Investigations
- X. Issues Regarding Talking Heads in the Media

 

[DAMIFINO]

Imo, there could be any one of a number of reasons that the Dermonds were indirectly targeted by NC fanatical followers or paramilitary security force. It may be something as simple as Mr or Mrs D serving on the DM York grand jury, or the jury that later convicted DMY in Putnam County, GA, for multiple counts of child molestation, their vulnerability, secluded lakeside lot, etc.

I was thinking that, too, but I then I thought about the odds of one of them being on the Federal jury, which would be slim. I would think that if a Putnam Co. resident was drawn, the defense would strike them.

For a local trial, County jury pools are drawn every two years from drivers licenses, property owners (tax commissioner's lists) and voter registrations. It is my understanding this done by computer at the state level and sent to the county. The juror pool list is then drawn from that master list. In my county, the jury pool for the court session is published in the local paper. Also, elderly citizens are excused. I don't know if that is custom or law.

 

[Foxfire]

Imo, there could be any one of a number of reasons that the Dermonds were indirectly targeted by NC fanatical followers or paramilitary security force. It may be something as simple as Mr or Mrs D serving on the DM York grand jury, or the jury that later convicted DMY in Putnam County, GA, for multiple counts of child molestation, their vulnerability, secluded lakeside lot, etc.

I was thinking that, too, but I then I thought about the odds of one of them being on the Federal jury, which would be slim. I would think that if a Putnam Co. resident was drawn, the defense would strike them.

For a local trial, County jury pools are drawn every two years from drivers licenses, property owners (tax commissioner's lists) and voter registrations. It is my understanding this done by computer at the state level and sent to the county. The juror pool list is then drawn from that master list. In my county, the jury pool for the court session is published in the local paper. Also, elderly citizens are excused. I don't know if that is custom or law.

There was a Putnam County Grand Jury in the original GA State indictment of DM York, DAMIFINO. You are right about the probability being slim, but the grand jurors names were sealed.. Also there was a NC hit list of sorts; enemies of DMY/NC, which contained the names of 35 people from Putnam County, according to the SPLC article linked in a prior post. This list was publicitzed, but I'm having difficulty locating it.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...all-issues/2002/fall/savior-in-a-strange-land

 

[DAMIFINO]

There was a Putnam County Grand Jury in the original GA State indictment of DM York, DAMIFINO. You are right about the probability being slim, but the grand jurors names were sealed.. Also there was a NC hit list of sorts; enemies of DMY/NC, which contained the names of 35 people from Putnam County, according to the SPLC article linked in a prior post. This list was publicitzed, but I'm having difficulty locating it.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...all-issues/2002/fall/savior-in-a-strange-land

In my county, the Grand Jury pool (not the jurors drawn)is posted in the paper. It may be in the Eatonton paper. It is matter of public record and the proceedings (bills) of the grand jury are reported in the Superior Court minutes. The names of the grand jurors are included and it is signed by the Grand Jurors. That may take a trip to the court house to find out, though.

 

[Foxfire]

Sniped from the SPLC article;
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...s/2002/fall/savior-in-a-strange-land?page=0,1

'Where's Bilal Philips Now?'
In the early 1990s, as York was beginning to speak to his followers about Georgia, the FBI undertook a major preliminary investigation of the cult. In a 29-page report, the agency laid out a series of shocking allegations.

Witnesses described a special AAC security team called the Mujahad, or "Sword of Islam," which included Roy Savage, a reputed AAC enforcer who may have been connected to the 1979 murder of an AAC opponent. (Savage went to prison for the 1983 murder of two Newark, New Jersey women.) Witnesses alleged that the Mujahad was involved in a spectrum of criminal activity, including narcotics and protection rackets.

The FBI report also described the AAC's so-called "construction crew," a group that allegedly burned down buildings York wanted to buy at cut-rate prices. Agents looked into a 1990-91 series of Maryland bank robberies allegedly carried out by AAC members, including one in which a motel clerk was shot.

Mujahad - Sword of Islam
https://www.google.com/webhp?source...2&ie=UTF-8#q=sword of islam khalid ibn waleed

 

[Treelights]

Prolly the folks with opportunity, Treelights. The likely suspects in most homicide investigations; family, friends, neighbors, contractors, witnesses, etc., imo... All have to be ruled out..

Day one of the Dermond investigation: "The only one who's not a suspect is me because I know where I was," Sherrif Sills..

What confuses me about this, are the words, "suspect" and "person(s) of interest."
The word suspect was used, not person(s) of interest. Maybe it is just semantics from the Sheriff's point of view??
IMOO.

 

[shadow of my mind]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victimology#Victim_facilitation

Interesting. And yes, the more you know and understand the victim and their connections to other people, places and their movements in society and even their ideologies, the better chance there is in catching the perpetrator.

 

[Bootsctr]

First post with a reply To Solitaryone! I liked the other way too, but I'm a Taurus - always resistant to change and bull-headed!

 

[Bootsctr]

Thank you so much OTPTarheel! Plus, all three were being held without bond! Quite a few guns. Over $1400 dollars in cash and security cameras! This is link is going into my Investigation file folder too! It's a great one! :loveyou: