GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 9

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Foxfire said:
<BBM for Focus>

RE: <Remembering that there was no signs of forced entry, they knew or were familiar with their perpetrators> giving reason to the first 2 scenarios below

dancinunderthemoon, although I agree with most of your comment, the BBM indicates the probability of a creative ruse being used to lower the Dermond's guard and to gain entry of their home, imo. I also agree that revenge/retribution was the likely motive and the Dermonds were simply an easy target due to their ages and the seclusion/privacy of their wooded cul-de-sac lot, easily acessed by lake oconee..

Due to the seven months that have passed since the Dermond's abduction/decapitation/murders without a successful resolution by Sheriff Sills and the FBI. Imo, due to the lack of forensics, witnesses, and suspects, these murders were very well planned and meticulously executed by professionally and likely paramilitary trained perps to send a message...

Bumping 05/20/2014 AJC Article: Murdered elderly couple | Sheriff says Dermonds likely knew killers <Video interview of SS>

Murdered elderly couple | Sheriff says Dermonds likely knew killers
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/murdered-elderly-couple-sheriff-says-victims-likel/nf4Tg/

The sheriff has all but eliminated the idea that some sort of ritualistic cult was involved.

“If that was the case, they’d want us to know,” he said.

There’s conflicting signs that the killings were the work of professionals.

“For everything that looks professional, there’s something that isn’t,” Sills said. “This is not the work of some drug-crazed individuals, and this is not some professional assassin.”

Nothing has surfaced that would indicate the Dermonds ever associated with such people.
<Sniped - Read More>
______________________

BBM, I have to totally agree
Indeed it was not random, all that I stated would also indicate such
Click to expand...
 
dancinunderthemoon said:
hi southernmimi, we don't really know who he was communicating with, seems to me, he wouldn't cooperate or someone else wouldn't. Considering the way he died, he or someone would not comply with some uncouth indivduals.
He was probably a message to someone else the Dermonds know very closely that possibly was dealing with some uncouth individuals and the person he knows got into a situation unknowingly and was threatened or owed money or would not entertain any threats, exploitation or extortion
The fact is that he was beheaded and left to be found, that speaks volumes and stating these scenarious does not imply the Dermonds were not respectable people. We've all been the recipient of narcissist or psychopathic behaviors in our lives, the numbers of these type are on the rise, but we dont' all own this many franchises nor dealt with the "elite" so to speak. These types of individuals abound in the upper class, that's how they got where they are in many cases.

The fact that the head was decapitated and the body was left behind yet removing Mrs D from the location, to me, indicates he was meant to be found that way. There are so many scenarious besides what I mentioned earlier but this fact alone, speaks volumes in my opinion

Would just like to know WHO the message was meant for
Click to expand...

<BBM for Focus>

'Sheriff Howard Sills, the FBI, the RP GW/Putnam county community, and the entire Justice system; Retribution/Vengeance, imo'.. "The writing is on the wall, and the devil in the details, imo"...
 
"Silence is the Predator's Most Lethal Weapon, imo"..
____________

EXCLUSIVE: Sheriff says Reynolds Plantation couple killed with different weapons
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/

June 4, 2014

<sniped & BBM>
Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills told Winne that he has evidence indicating the killer used two different weapons during last month&#8217;s slayings. Sills says physical evidence points to a strong likelihood that the Dermonds died in different ways and that the killer, or killers, used a different kind of weapon to kill 88-year-old Russell Dermond than to kill 87-year-old Shirley Dermond.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t believe they were killed with the same weapon, no,&#8221; said Sills. &#8220;I won&#8217;t elaborate on what the murder weapons were.&#8221;

[...]

&#8220;This is a very difficult case, but that doesn&#8217;t mean we don&#8217;t have forensic evidence. We&#8217;re running down leads today,&#8221; said Sills. &#8220;We&#8217;ve got fingerprints, we&#8217;ve got hairs, we&#8217;ve got fibers, we&#8217;ve got all matter of forensic evidence that we&#8217;ve collected from the house.&#8221;

Sills said they&#8217;ve also collected several other items of significance to the case that he can&#8217;t talk about.
 
: &#8220;For everything that looks professional, there&#8217;s something that isn&#8217;t,&#8221; Sills said. &#8220;This is not the work of some drug-crazed individuals, and this is not some professional assassin.&#8221;

Then does this indicate that the killers were not adept at this kind of thing? First time (or only a few) killing(s) by the perpertrators yet was clearly planned and wanted it to appear professional but didn't carry it out precisely enough? Clearly uncouth individuals.

This probably indicates also that it was not a mob or mafia hit? Yet the beheading indicates otherwise but I do not believe it was a mafia hit due to the simple life of the victims and due to the confusion infused by removing Mrs D from the crime scene, which i do believe the home was the crime scene, as stated early, probably no blood splatter from knocking out the victim in his garage but clearly some blood splatter was found at the scene due to the decapitation, yet minimal due to the fact that he was already deceased when decapitation occurred. Plastic could have been used during this violent act but the perps did forget to clean the wall, so probably no plastic involved. don't know if the blood splatter was discovered only by luminol or was just not cleaned up, but very little reportedly.

But why hide anything when you leave the body, except forensics leading back to the killers?

However, who is perfect in this world that it could have been better plotted?

I would venture to say that there may have been some recent mishap plotted over the past few years. I don't see this situation occurred then happened in just a few months IMO, there may have been a lot of behind the scenes mayhem between individuals to gain compliance by someone which clearly didn't occur

of course the whole thing could be a just a complete distraction to confuse everyone and especially the authorities , why it appeared professional yet not, simultaneously.
 
Foxfire said:
<BBM for Focus>

'Sheriff Howard Sills, the FBI, the RP GW/Putnam county community, and the entire Justice system; Retribution/Vengeance, imo'.. "The writing is on the wall, and the devil in the details, imo"...
Click to expand...

Possible also!
 
Interesting Read:
Was wondering if there is a forensic psychologist on this case at present: The following was stated by a forensic psychologist who had not all the information and was also stated before SD was discovered

http://www.examiner.com/article/geo...ile-psychiatrist-says-suspect-is-mentally-ill

The Russell Dermond homicide crime scene (or at least the secondary crime scene, if the homicide and/or decapitation occurred elsewhere), has been referred to by police in press briefings as a scene in which there was no forced entry, no sign of a struggle, and a home so well maintained on the inside of it that the sheriff said you would wonder if anyone even lived in the Reynolds Plantation residence in Eatonton, Georgia.

Douglas says that with a mentally ill suspect you typically see a disorganized crime scene, or a mixed crime scene, which has some disorganized activity in conjunction with some evidence of an organized influence to it. But the person who abducted Shirley Dermond, and killed and decapitated her husband, had such mental acumen at the time of their crime that they managed to enter undetected onto the gated community where the victims lived, as well as exit the property with Shirley Dermond in tow, and leave no discernible evidence behind that would tie them to the crime by police.
.........................

If Dr. Davis has any doubt, let him consider the California serial killer Herbert Mullin, who was a paranoid schizophrenic that went around murdering people he did not know. Mullin left behind an extremely disorganized crime scene during his violent out-of-touch with reality killings. And that does not match up with the pristine and everything-in-its-place crime setting Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills is reporting existed at the Dermond's residence.
 
Whether the Dermonds were murdered by someone familiar to them or not, gaining access to someone's door isn't always that difficult. I've opened my own door to strangers in the past and never gave it a thought. I do think the killer(s) had the advantage of time so that makes me wonder if their murderer knew details about the Dermond family. The house and crime scene were cleaned so someone didn't feel pressured to leave quickly. Evidently, everything was planned to the last detail and every precaution taken to avoid detection. Strange to think someone was planning and plotting this as the Dermonds went about their everyday lives...
 
dancinunderthemoon said:
: &#8220;For everything that looks professional, there&#8217;s something that isn&#8217;t,&#8221; Sills said. &#8220;This is not the work of some drug-crazed individuals, and this is not some professional assassin.&#8221;

Then does this indicate that the killers were not adept at this kind of thing? First time (or only a few) killing(s) by the perpertrators yet was clearly planned and wanted it to appear professional but didn't carry it out precisely enough? Clearly uncouth individuals.

This probably indicates also that it was not a mob or mafia hit? Yet the beheading indicates otherwise but I do not believe it was a mafia hit due to the simple life of the victims and due to the confusion infused by removing Mrs D from the crime scene, which i do believe the home was the crime scene, as stated early, probably no blood splatter from knocking out the victim in his garage but clearly some blood splatter was found at the scene due to the decapitation, yet minimal due to the fact that he was already deceased when decapitation occurred. Plastic could have been used during this violent act but the perps did forget to clean the wall, so probably no plastic involved. don't know if the blood splatter was discovered only by luminol or was just not cleaned up, but very little reportedly.

But why hide anything when you leave the body, except forensics leading back to the killers?

However, who is perfect in this world that it could have been better plotted?

I would venture to say that there may have been some recent mishap plotted over the past few years. I don't see this situation occurred then happened in just a few months IMO, there may have been a lot of behind the scenes mayhem between individuals to gain compliance by someone which clearly didn't occur

of course the whole thing could be a just a complete distraction to confuse everyone and especially the authorities , why it appeared professional yet not, simultaneously.
Click to expand...

<BBM for Focus>
Good questions and food for thought, dancinunderthemoon...

I have been searching for the interview article of Sheriff Sills, where he states that Mr D's beheading was done with precision; 'Not the work of an amateur'..
That would be something that a person couldn't fake, imo..

Another thing that confuses me is that SS states that both Mr & Mrs D's cause of death was blunt force trauma, but not with the same weapon. If Mr D's head is still missing, and no weapon was found with Mrs D. How could the weapons used to murder them be determined to be different by investigators?

88-Year-Old Georgia Man Decapitated, Wife Believed ...
http://www.allthingscrimeblog.com/2...ife-believed-kidnappeded-authorities-baffled/
May 11, 2014 - Homeowner Russell Dermond, 88, was found beheaded in his Georgia garage attached to his 3,300 square-foot home on Tuesday ... Sheriff Sills believes that the apparent precision of, first, the decapitation of Russell Dermond, and second, the kidnapping of his wife suggests that the killing wasn't random.
_______________

Bumping:
Originally Quoted by Bessie
11-16-2014, 08:11 PM
A Lake without Leads: Putnam Co. murders remain a mystery (http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...10/lake-oconee-murder-putnam-county/18811169/)
Catherine Beck, WXIA 12:14 a.m. EST November 11, 2014

[...]

Everyone who has been interviewed has been cleared. There's still no suspect. But Sills believes it was planned, pre-meditated and gruesome.

Russell Dermond was killed and then beheaded, left on the cement floor of his garage. Shirley was killed by blunt force trauma to the head, before being weighted down and dropped in the lake.

"You can't make me believe there was any kind of randomness to this crime," Sills said.
Click to expand...
 
Bumping:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...le-three-months-grisly-deaths-lake-house.html

In the days and weeks since early May when his elderly parents were killed, Keith Dermond has been as puzzled as anyone else.
Russell and Shirley Dermond had been married 62 years. Both in their late 80s, they fell prey to unspeakable violence in Georgia - savagery as the Putnam County sheriff has called it -- and whoever inflicted it seems to have left nary a trace.


<snip>

As the investigation into the couple's death reached its three-month mark, Sheriff Howard Sills said the case still weighs on him. Sills said he rose at 4 AM the other day to make note of an investigative angle that came to him in the night.
'Myself and one detective continue to work on this every day,' the sheriff said.
<Read more @ link>
____________________

The Pulitzer Prizes | Angels and Demons
www.pulitzer.org/archives/7892
Pulitzer Prize 1998 &#8212; Feature Writing

Angels and Demons
Sunset - Chapter 1
By: Thomas French

"I believe there are demons all around us," he would say, "just as I believe there are angels all around us."

One year had gone by since the murders, and then another, and now the investigators were deep into a third. They were working day and night, working weekends, putting off vacations, losing weight, gaining weight, growing pale and pasty and haggard, waking at 3 a.m. with a jolt and scratching notes on pads beside their beds. Their sergeant did not know if they would ever find the answer. As far as he was concerned, the case was not even in their hands.
 
Boy, y'all don't miss anything! I really believe that the property does not really have a pool as usually that is listed on property records as an improvement, and it is not on the property tax records. Just a real estate listing mistake?
 
Foxfire,
Case and investigation has many similarities to Angels and demons posted above, still reading
 
from angels and demons link below
"Moore didn't particularly enjoy talking to reporters. In fact, it made him uncomfortable. But the more coverage he drummed up, the better the chance that the right tip would finally come the team's way.'

I dont' believe we are getting enough, baited yes, but not enough information to pique someones brain or maybe someone is reluctant but if they knew more details, they might call in a tip

Foxfire said:
Bumping:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...le-three-months-grisly-deaths-lake-house.html

In the days and weeks since early May when his elderly parents were killed, Keith Dermond has been as puzzled as anyone else.
Russell and Shirley Dermond had been married 62 years. Both in their late 80s, they fell prey to unspeakable violence in Georgia - savagery as the Putnam County sheriff has called it -- and whoever inflicted it seems to have left nary a trace.


<snip>

As the investigation into the couple's death reached its three-month mark, Sheriff Howard Sills said the case still weighs on him. Sills said he rose at 4 AM the other day to make note of an investigative angle that came to him in the night.
'Myself and one detective continue to work on this every day,' the sheriff said.
<Read more @ link>
____________________

The Pulitzer Prizes | Angels and Demons
www.pulitzer.org/archives/7892
Pulitzer Prize 1998 — Feature Writing

Angels and Demons
Sunset - Chapter 1
By: Thomas French

"I believe there are demons all around us," he would say, "just as I believe there are angels all around us."

One year had gone by since the murders, and then another, and now the investigators were deep into a third. They were working day and night, working weekends, putting off vacations, losing weight, gaining weight, growing pale and pasty and haggard, waking at 3 a.m. with a jolt and scratching notes on pads beside their beds. Their sergeant did not know if they would ever find the answer. As far as he was concerned, the case was not even in their hands.
Click to expand...
 
dancinunderthemoon said:
from angels and demons link below
"Moore didn't particularly enjoy talking to reporters. In fact, it made him uncomfortable. But the more coverage he drummed up, the better the chance that the right tip would finally come the team's way.'

I dont' believe we are getting enough, baited yes, but not enough information to pique someones brain or maybe someone is reluctant but if they knew more details, they might call in a tip
Click to expand...

So True, dancinunderthemoon.. In many cases the significant tip is received by investigators, yet is overlooked or goes to the bottom of the stack. The Rogers family abduction is the first missing/murdered person/s case that Billboards were used in an investigation to create Awareness.

Dancinunderthemoon, in virtually every case that I have followed where extreme evil is present. There always seems to be a spiritual connection; a dueling battle between Good and Evil.. As in the Angels and Demons article of the Rogers family abduction/murders, there is also extreme evil involved in the Dermond abduction/decapitation/murders. In every one of these cases, Good eventually triumphs over Evil...jmo
 
dancinunderthemoon said:
How long would it take to identify such? Do not know how or where that is handled, would hope it would be revealed by now if so. That would definitely make this case solvable
Click to expand...

It would make it solvable if there is a match. I didn't know that they had recovered any fingerprints from the scene.
The prints would remain in the FBI's system waiting on a match in another case or someone being fingerprinted.

From link above,
How fast it works: The average response time for an electronic criminal fingerprint submission is about 27 minutes, while electronic civil submissions are processed within an hour and 12 minutes. IAFIS processed more than 61 million ten-print submissions during Fiscal Year 2010.
 
GOOD INFORMATION

http://www2.sptimes.com/Angels_Demons/tin_man.5.html'

"Normally our policy is not to discuss evidence, or have the public view evidence, in unsolved homicide cases," Moore said about the handwriting. "However, the Rogers case is so unique, and the necessity to capture the killer so compelling, the need to display this evidence overrides normal procedures."
 
Foxfire said:
So True, dancinunderthemoon.. In many cases the significant tip is received by investigators, yet is overlooked or goes to the bottom of the stack. The Rogers family abduction is the first missing/murdered person/s case that Billboards were used in an investigation to create Awareness.

Dancinunderthemoon, in virtually every case that I have followed where extreme evil is present. There always seems to be a spiritual connection; a dueling battle between Good and Evil.. As in the Angels and Demons article of the Rogers family abduction/murders, there is also extreme evil involved in the Dermond abduction/decapitation/murders. In every one of these cases, Good eventually triumphs over Evil...jmo
Click to expand...

SO many good tips for SS in that case. People only think they are looking for a hunter or fisherman, the only tip we have with NO boat color as in the rogers investigation.
SS said, and you quote him Foxfire, that he had information he isn't divulging to the public, probably SO much more as well
 
One reason to know different weapons were used is to check it for blood. Just say a golf club was found with MrD's blood only, something else would have been used to kill MrsD. Or, an unusual weapon was used, say a fence post or a pipe, on MrD and MrsD only had bruises from a fist. Maybe one had broken bones and the other did not. I even thought of a gun shell being found at the house and MrsD did not have a gunshot wound so that would leave MrD's head, but then they said that both died of blunt force trauma which would eliminate a gunshot.

More on autopsy of blunt force trauma victim -
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1680107-overview
 
As far as the clean house, the elderly couple probably didn't utilize very many rooms. They may not have been messy people. If they made the bed, straightened up the living room and cleaned the bathroom and kitchen every day, it could seem very clean to an outsider looking in.

If they both were outside tending to the yard or flowers or just enjoying the outside, they probably had the door unlocked so there would be no need for the killer to break in. If MrD had the keys in his pocket from a morning walk, the killer could have used them to enter the house.
Did we ever get an answer on the clothing they were each wearing at the time of their deaths?

Did they have daily paper delivery? Did they have a PO box or was mail delivered to their home?
 
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