GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 9

[watcher9]

<BBM for Focus>

I agree Steleheart, Sheriff Sills, should be looking way back, just not at the Dermond's history. Sheriff Sills should be looking at himself in the mirror asking, who is capable of comitting a heinous crime of this nature? Who has a documented past of extreme violence and other deviant behavior; murder, dismemberment, etc. I agree that there is someone serving time in prison who has had many years to plot his intricate plan to seek revenge/retribution.. This person, as are many sadistic psychopaths, is very intelligent, creative, calculating, but most importantly, very deflective..

Imo, the intent of Mr D's decapitation, taking of his head, and posing of his torso for discovery was not to remove ballistic evidence but to instill terror. Terror for the person/s that discovered him, the community, and investigators and other first responders that witnessed the grisly crime scene.

Imo, Mrs D life was spared until arriving at the body dump location. Mrs D was simply used as a shield/hostage, in case the perps's boat was stopped by DNR enroute to the boat launching ramp, imo..

I don't know about Mrs D being used as a shield/hostage because once they killed and dumped her, they were still vulnerable to a DNR search going to the boat ramp or even being spotted by someone who knew her. Maybe their boat ramp was a private ramp near the dump site? What about all the homes immediately in the area of the dump side?

Also, there would have been the possibility of a blood splatter in the boat, whereas if they had left her at her home, there would be no link at all - unless they had blood on their clothes.

The guy spotted in the front yard could have been using the hose to wash blood off his hands and the knife? at the time. I have read both front and back yard, but I wonder if it's just how you interpret the position of the house? I'm used to calling the part facing the road/street the front of the house whereas someone living on a lake may say the front of the house is facing the lake.

 

[Sonya610]

I have not followed this case from the beginning so this has probably already been discussed.

The couple was killed in the morning yet it seems odd that the killer would want to load up a body and take it out on the lake in the middle of the day. The likelihood of being seen out in the open seems to great.

Did the killer wait and do it at night? SS won't elaborate on the state of Mrs. Dermond's body but hearing there was one cinder block implies the body was whole which makes it even more risky to dump overboard in the middle of the day.

 

[jonnyrock]

Is there any certainty as to where either or both Dermonds was/were killed? Perhaps I missed that part. Each is said to have been murdered but not from drowning or decapitation, so just where did these murders actually take place? Blood spatter/tissue evidence is not mentioned and recall the "pristine" household interior. Blood from the decapitation is a given but it is post mortem. I believe the Dermonds were separarted by the murderers and Shirley led alive to a boat at their dock where her murder took place -- on the boat. Recall she was initially referred to as kidnapped or missing, right? As for Russell, who knows where or how he was killed? So many intangibles and perplexities on this vexing case.

 

[DAMIFINO]

If it's not local, then how did they gain access to a boat? How would they know where a boat with a key and gas would be available to steal and how would they get to it? Surely by now, the owner would have reported if anything were found suspicious. Would the killer(s) bring their own boat in on a trailer if this crime was planned? Would they be able to launch a boat from the Dermond's dock? Or, if they boated in, how would they know which inlet to enter to access the Dermond's place if they were the ones targeted? Don't the inlets all look pretty much the same?
Even if they were not local, I guess they could have still been familiar with the lake.

We are thinking two different kinds of boats. A jon boat/fishing boat would have a gas motor that would start with a pull cord. A bigger bass boat would have a key start. Either could have an electric trolling motor that just turns on with the flip of a switch. A trolling motor is quiet but would get you downstream fairly quickly. They would not have had to crank up the big motor at all.
If they came to the D's house by boat, maybe the person seen was there to direct the boat to the right cove. Maybe they brought their own boat and put in at the secluded boat ramp near the dump spot. They may not have even taken Mrs. D from the house by boat, but they sure had to dump her by boat.

 

[DAMIFINO]

Is there any certainty as to where either or both Dermonds was/were killed? Perhaps I missed that part. Each is said to have been murdered but not from drowning or decapitation, so just where did these murders actually take place? Blood spatter/tissue evidence is not mentioned and recall the "pristine" household interior. Blood from the decapitation is a given but it is post mortem. I believe the Dermonds were separarted by the murderers and Shirley led alive to a boat at their dock where her murder took place -- on the boat. Recall she was initially referred to as kidnapped or missing, right? As for Russell, who knows where or how he was killed? So many intangibles and perplexities on this vexing case.

Perplexing and vexing indeed! Now that we know that Mr. D was between the cars, I wonder if that is where he was decapitated. I would think that it would not be easy to do in a cramped space and without getting blood on the cars, etc.

 

[Foxfire]

Is there any certainty as to where either or both Dermonds was/were killed? Perhaps I missed that part. Each is said to have been murdered but not from drowning or decapitation, so just where did these murders actually take place? Blood spatter/tissue evidence is not mentioned and recall the "pristine" household interior. Blood from the decapitation is a given but it is post mortem. I believe the Dermonds were separarted by the murderers and Shirley led alive to a boat at their dock where her murder took place -- on the boat. Recall she was initially referred to as kidnapped or missing, right? As for Russell, who knows where or how he was killed? So many intangibles and perplexities on this vexing case.

<BBM for Focus>
Not sure if investigators even know where each victim was murdered or if all the crime scenes have been located...
You can say that again, johnnyrock.. So many intangibles and Very perplexing case..

 

[steelman]

I always thought they cut his head off and took it with them to terrorize Mrs Dermond even further as they made their way down the lake. Whoever did this hated those two........a lot.

Or.....it was a thrill killing pulled off by some really sick individuals.

 

[Foxfire]

November 2014 was the last time the media links and timeline only thread was updated. There has been quite a few good msm articles on the Dermond murders investigation in the past six months, imo. I'll add a couple of msm article links later this evening..
_______________________

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...utnam-County-**Media-Links***NO-DISCUSSION***
_______________

Catherine Beck, WXIA 12:14 a.m. EST November 11, 2014

[...]

Everyone who has been interviewed has been cleared. There's still no suspect. But Sills believes it was planned, pre-meditated and gruesome.

Russell Dermond was killed and then beheaded, left on the cement floor of his garage. Shirley was killed by blunt force trauma to the head, before being weighted down and dropped in the lake.

"You can't make me believe there was any kind of randomness to this crime," Sills said.

A Lake without Leads: Putnam Co. murders remain a mystery
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...10/lake-oconee-murder-putnam-county/18811169/

 

[Sonya610]

I always thought they cut his head off and took it with them to terrorize Mrs Dermond even further as they made their way down the lake. Whoever did this hated those two........a lot.

True, but if they wanted to terrorize her they likely would have tortured her too. Then again SS won't comment on her injuries so maybe they did.

 

[Canaille]

His body was found in the garage between the cars...? I wonder if the killer(s) left the neighborhood with the Dermonds in the trunk of their own vehicle. Killed them elsewhere, decapitated him, then loaded the bodies back into the trunk. Returned to the home... left him in the garage and her in the lake.

 

[steelman]

I remember a few years ago, Law Enforcement came to the public and asked for help. It seems that for over 10 years, there was a serial rapist on the loose. They had D.N.A. and fingerprints. They had a general description of his appearance. They didn't have anyone to match it to.

Starting back in the late 90's, this individual was going around raping and assaulting different women. His crimes kept escalating and he was getting more and more violent with each attack. If I recall, this went on for about a decade, more or less.

Most people in the public didn't even know about it. Why ? Well, seems that the investigators in charge kept everything "close to the vest". The public wasn't really asked to help. The public was aware of the rapes being committed, they just never knew they were all related. More than likely, the investigators didn't want to "jeopardize the integrity of the investigation" by releasing details. In the meantime, more attacks occurred and more women were raped and assaulted.

Finally, after all of those years, they decided to do just that, release details. They issued a composite sketch, they issued times, dates, and places that the attacks occurred. They issued a description of the vehicle he may be driving. They provided details about tattoos and scars and other small bits of info.. They pretty much laid everything they had out on the table for review.

After releasing all of the important details to the public, within 48 hours they not only knew WHO he was, they had him in custody. Due to tips that came in from the public, he was finally identified and apprehended.

I can't help but wonder how many of those rapes and assaults would have been prevented had they done that 8 or 9 years earlier ??

______________________________________

The Dermonds case reminds me of that case every time I come in here to read and catch up. The vague details, the secrecy, the lack of details, the carefully parsed words, the refusal to divulge information. I know every lawman wants to get credit for cracking the big case, it's just human nature. It would be a hell of a feather to put in your cap to bring down the Dermonds killers.

But the way I see it is this, every day the killer(s) are not brought in, they are free to roam and do this same thing to other people. Maybe they already have. Maybe they are planning their next one. Maybe they have killed other people since then only with a different m.o. and circumstances.

I think when Sheriff Sills gets ready to get the public involved, share what they have and provide the minute details that are being left out, this case will be solved. If there was ever a case where every available resource should be utilized, this is the one. As long as he remains steadfast and stubborn, the killers will walk free among us, and I don't think these are the type of killers ANY of us want walking around among us.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

It would not make any sense to decapitate a body and then haul the head away just to prevent a ballistic match-up. Initially the ballistics test (assuming the gun barrel had not been altered) would only show the make/model of the firearm that was used, in order to match it up to a specific gun the weapon would have to be recovered.

There are numerous ways to prevent a ballistic match such as a) dump the gun in the lake b) buy a new barrel and throw away the old one c) use an abrasive chemical or material to change the signature of the barrel d) use a shotgun.

Plus in Georgia guns do not require permits or registration and private sales common so even if they identify the exact make/model of the weapon that doesn't prove a thing UNLESS the weapon can be found and traced back to the suspect via FFL records.

In order to trace a firearm you have to have the serial number and start with the manufacturer's records, then look up the retailer and find out who he sold it to based on his records, then find the first owner and find out if he sold it and does he know who he sold it to? If he doesn't know (or won't say) then the trail ends right there assuming of course the last owner of record has an alibi and can't be blamed for the murder.

FYI if anyone is wondering why Georgia has loopholes that make it hard to trace weapons it is because we like it that way, Georgians do not want the government to have/keep a list of our personal firearms.

Yes and I have never agreed with that theory. Many have, too many people are being beheaded today and they are usually a certain group, I don't know that it was in this case and it could have just been staged to appear that way

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

<BBM for Focus>

I agree Steleheart, Sheriff Sills, should be looking way back, just not at the Dermond's history. Sheriff Sills should be looking at himself in the mirror asking, who is capable of comitting a heinous crime of this nature? Who has a documented past of extreme violence and other deviant behavior; murder, dismemberment, etc. I agree that there is someone serving time in prison who has had many years to plot his intricate plan to seek revenge/retribution.. This person, as are many sadistic psychopaths, is very intelligent, creative, calculating, but most importantly, very deflective..

Imo, the intent of Mr D's decapitation, taking of his head, and posing of his torso for discovery was not to remove ballistic evidence but to instill terror. Terror for the person/s that discovered him, the community, and investigators and other first responders that witnessed the grisly crime scene.

Imo, Mrs D life was spared until arriving at the body dump location. Mrs D was simply used as a shield/hostage, in case the perps's boat was stopped by DNR enroute to the boat launching ramp, imo..

Makes sense, unless it was intended towards the family or other business partners if such exist, but surely the people that were terrorized the most, the immediately family course but also the community on a bigger level due to close proximity and small town

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I don't know about Mrs D being used as a shield/hostage because once they killed and dumped her, they were still vulnerable to a DNR search going to the boat ramp or even being spotted by someone who knew her. Maybe their boat ramp was a private ramp near the dump site? What about all the homes immediately in the area of the dump side?

Also, there would have been the possibility of a blood splatter in the boat, whereas if they had left her at her home, there would be no link at all - unless they had blood on their clothes.

The guy spotted in the front yard could have been using the hose to wash blood off his hands and the knife? at the time. I have read both front and back yard, but I wonder if it's just how you interpret the position of the house? I'm used to calling the part facing the road/street the front of the house whereas someone living on a lake may say the front of the house is facing the lake.

Lawrence shoals is pretty quiet, esp at night I quite imagine, there are no houses around the area, it's near the dam and it's woods everywhere you look, surrounded by it, I posted pics on one of these threads, but it was early in the year, I dont' recall but posted details on gates etc, no cameras

I can see someone dropping a boat in for night fishing, head down to the D's, head back, drop her (after an alleged night of fishing) take the boat out at lawrence shoals, leave, even the street to the park is a long stretch of road to sparta and back towards eatonton way

 

[southernmimi]

It would not make any sense to decapitate a body and then haul the head away just to prevent a ballistic match-up. Initially the ballistics test (assuming the gun barrel had not been altered) would only show the make/model of the firearm that was used, in order to match it up to a specific gun the weapon would have to be recovered.

There are numerous ways to prevent a ballistic match such as a) dump the gun in the lake b) buy a new barrel and throw away the old one c) use an abrasive chemical or material to change the signature of the barrel d) use a shotgun.

Plus in Georgia guns do not require permits or registration and private sales common so even if they identify the exact make/model of the weapon that doesn't prove a thing UNLESS the weapon can be found and traced back to the suspect via FFL records.

In order to trace a firearm you have to have the serial number and start with the manufacturer's records, then look up the retailer and find out who he sold it to based on his records, then find the first owner and find out if he sold it and does he know who he sold it to? If he doesn't know (or won't say) then the trail ends right there assuming of course the last owner of record has an alibi and can't be blamed for the murder.

FYI if anyone is wondering why Georgia has loopholes that make it hard to trace weapons it is because we like it that way, Georgians do not want the government to have/keep a list of our personal firearms.

I still think the beheading was for "shock" and to send such a clear message to someone.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I remember a few years ago, Law Enforcement came to the public and asked for help. It seems that for over 10 years, there was a serial rapist on the loose. They had D.N.A. and fingerprints. They had a general description of his appearance. They didn't have anyone to match it to.

Starting back in the late 90's, this individual was going around raping and assaulting different women. His crimes kept escalating and he was getting more and more violent with each attack. If I recall, this went on for about a decade, more or less.

Most people in the public didn't even know about it. Why ? Well, seems that the investigators in charge kept everything "close to the vest". The public wasn't really asked to help. The public was aware of the rapes being committed, they just never knew they were all related. More than likely, the investigators didn't want to "jeopardize the integrity of the investigation" by releasing details. In the meantime, more attacks occurred and more women were raped and assaulted.

Finally, after all of those years, they decided to do just that, release details. They issued a composite sketch, they issued times, dates, and places that the attacks occurred. They issued a description of the vehicle he may be driving. They provided details about tattoos and scars and other small bits of info.. They pretty much laid everything they had out on the table for review.

After releasing all of the important details to the public, within 48 hours they not only knew WHO he was, they had him in custody. Due to tips that came in from the public, he was finally identified and apprehended.

I can't help but wonder how many of those rapes and assaults would have been prevented had they done that 8 or 9 years earlier ??

______________________________________

The Dermonds case reminds me of that case every time I come in here to read and catch up. The vague details, the secrecy, the lack of details, the carefully parsed words, the refusal to divulge information. I know every lawman wants to get credit for cracking the big case, it's just human nature. It would be a hell of a feather to put in your cap to bring down the Dermonds killers.

But the way I see it is this, every day the killer(s) are not brought in, they are free to roam and do this same thing to other people. Maybe they already have. Maybe they are planning their next one. Maybe they have killed other people since then only with a different m.o. and circumstances.

I think when Sheriff Sills gets ready to get the public involved, share what they have and provide the minute details that are being left out, this case will be solved. If there was ever a case where every available resource should be utilized, this is the one. As long as he remains steadfast and stubborn, the killers will walk free among us, and I don't think these are the type of killers ANY of us want walking around among us.

I can feel it. It's a small town, they own this town and do not like outsiders esp some they've butted heads with. If thats not enough, throw in a narcissistic lawman who thinks he owns the town, runs the town, took down the Nuwabian cult, with help, boost the ego a little more or a lot, he's not seen any crimes of this nature ( in the D's case) and there is alot of pressure to prove yourself maybe becuase it's a small town or maybe becaues he got his ego boosted with the NC deal.

One question that was asked of him by Wynne I think it was "Do you ever feel like this crime will be solved" or soemthing to that nature and SS said, "There have been hundred and hundreds and thousands of cases that go unsolved" He never even answered the question. He has stated that before he was afraid of such, but he was defending himself when he was asked this in the interview. This is not about SS or the PCSO, if the PCSO or SS solve this, it'll be a miracle or a tipster that causes it to be. Becuase how can you say it aint this or it aint that and yet you have no clue WHO or WHAT. That's talking out of both sides of your mouth. But to not investigate every possibilty or atleast consider other possibilities, then he might not ever solve it. AND HIS health will suffer. Pride goeth before a fall.

 

[True Crime Lover]

Very well said, Steelman and dancingnderthemoon. Thanks!

 

[Suthrnqt]

I still think the beheading was for "shock" and to send such a clear message to someone.

Me too.

 

[Treelights]

I still think the beheading was for "shock" and to send such a clear message to someone.

If it was a message to/for someone, I wonder if that someone has an inkling that it was meant for them?
If so, I wonder if they would contact Sheriff Sills? Or would they keep quiet?
IMOO.

 

[southernmimi]

I think someone has an idea about the message and why. No one would go to such extreme as the Dermond murders without knowing that the message was sent and received. If I were that person, I'd keep quiet as a church mouse.