GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #2

[newone]

Yes but he also told witnesses and the first responders that when they got there

I just cant find the original video/msm article on that right now regrettably but I do recall that too.

 

[OtterPops]

A defense attorney could spin the whole him claiming the child was choking into - he used to be a dispatcher and knew it would get the responders there quickly, more quickly than my dead stiff baby was in the car all day.

This. Yes. I think Dad knew exactly what to say to get the response he wanted. He knew how to react at the scene. Also, I really really REALLY wish I knew what he was saying to the cop who told him to watch what he was saying!!

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

I assure you if I blow air in a full rigor body and then compress the chest, I'll get some noise. Also respectful.

What are you basing this assertion on?

I respectfully disagree. If you're even ABLE to open the mouth (which is doubtful due to rigor, jaw would be essentially 'locked'/immovable), in order to get air into the the lungs, you have to open the airway............which is step #1 when performing rescue breathing........but you can't tilt head/neck/do a jaw thrust on a body in rigor mortis. As well, the tongue would no doubt be very swollen so no air would pass into airway.

 

[jjenny]

I am going to bring up something a defense attorney would bring up in regard to the reports the father claimed the child was choking.

A defense attorney could spin the whole him claiming the child was choking into - he used to be a dispatcher and knew it would get the responders there quickly, more quickly than my dead stiff baby was in the car all day.

What did he need a quick response for if the baby was dead and stiff?
It's not like it would be possible to resurrect him.

 

[BrianInBirmingham]

bbm

An 'almost certain chance' is not synonymous with 'certain chance.'

IMO, I feel you're making nothing more than an unfounded, unsubstantiated assumption. According your thinking, then I guess the same could be 'assumed' for anyone directly involved in another's death.........armed robbery, domestic violence fatality, home invasion-turned-rape-leading to death, etc etc. So then nobody's "really guilty" because they just "snapped" and acted (killed) based on a break with reality. Sorry but I call pig poop on this.

Most anything I say about this case is unfounded and unsubstantiated mainly because Marietta police refuse to substantiate anything. . But I was referring specifically to this scenario and all of the confusion that transpired. Don't misunderstand me, if this man is found to actually have had intent and premeditation to kill his child then I will be the first to start an online petition that he receive the death penalty. ...and as to the gurgling, I said it was a harebrained theory. Relax. We'll find out eventually.

 

[newone]

What did he need a quick response for if the baby was dead and stiff?
It's not like it would be possible to resurrect him.

to cover his tail

 

[prima.facie]

Given devil his due.....I read earlier that he was well regarded at work and had received inhouse recognition and somewhere that he had received pay raises.

just some thoughts....not necessarily picking on your post but an overall thought process i have seen here in various posts.....

I am with a number of others.....

I dont think it matters how well he did his job, how well liked he was, how well he was rewarded, how many compliments people can say etc etc. how often he helped little ol' ladies across the street, fed the poor, clothed the homeless and so on.

the dude killed his child. period. all of one's positive traits go right out the window once they do something so vile....IMO. IMO, all of those positive things were a facade for the vile person they truly are.

i know a highly decorated military man who went to church, was deployed numerous times, was awarded tons of medals and highly regarded by everyone that knew him..........and he is now sitting in Miramar for sexually abusing his own daughter for most of her life. EVERYONE was shocked. but his wife (a sick woman herself) defends him to this day.

i could list many other stories of nearly [outwardly] perfect people doing horrendous things and everyone who knew them defending them and denying they did anything wrong. i dont care how close you (in general) are to someone....you will never ever ever ever be able to see what goes on in their mind and you will never ever ever be with that person 24/7/365 w/out a break.

i find the closest people are some of the worst people to get a character sketch from in cases such as this. it amazes me the denial family and friends will engage in even with evidence right in their face. it happens in my own family.

anyways....back to catching up.

 

[cluciano63]

I think if a distraught parent calls 911 about a baby either non-responsive or dead, they would come pretty quickly, even if the parent believed the baby to be deceased. I don't think it would fly with a jury, Imo, that the parent took the time to reason it out and pretend the child was alive so as to get help faster.

Jmo

 

[zippitydoda]

Another thing that occurred to me is that a reaction of a distraught father in denial and not thinking clearly to seeing his "blueish" baby in the rearview might be choking? I'm really not espousing that as what happened, but it's a possibility that didn't occur to me previously.

It has been reported that Cooper was placed in a rear facing car seat - IMO it would be hard to see him from the rear view mirror. But I don't know the actual seat set up, or what Mr Harris really saw.

I can't get past the documented smell - if the car was sealed and once its door was opened - I think it would have hit Mr Harris immediately. I have a hard time believing he did not react to it and look for the source, but rather started to drive home, then saw Cooper and pulled over to aid him.

Car, bad smell, internet search, hinky what happened story - brings back sad thoughts about another little one's demise. I'm so sorry for baby Cooper, what an awful situation for him; alone, hot and scared with no help to save him. His Dad just needs to tell the truth - what ever it is and give the family peace.

 

[newone]

just some thoughts....not necessarily picking on your post but an overall thought process i have seen here in various posts.....

I am with a number of others.....

I dont think it matters how well he did his job, how well liked he was, how well he was rewarded, how many compliments people can say etc etc. how often he helped little ol' ladies across the street, fed the poor, clothed the homeless and so on.

the dude killed his child. period. all of one's positive traits go right out the window once they do something so vile....IMO. IMO, all of those positive things were a facade for the vile person they truly are.

i know a highly decorated military man who went to church, was deployed numerous times, was awarded tons of medals and highly regarded by everyone that knew him..........and he is now sitting in Miramar for sexually abusing his own daughter for most of her life. EVERYONE was shocked. but his wife (a sick woman herself) defends him to this day.

i could list many other stories of nearly [outwardly] perfect people doing horrendous things and everyone who knew them defending them and denying they did anything wrong. i dont care how close you (in general) are to someone....you will never ever ever ever be able to see what goes on in their mind and you will never ever ever be with that person 24/7/365 w/out a break.

i find the closest people are some of the worst people to get a character sketch from in cases such as this. it amazes me the denial family and friends will engage in even with evidence right in their face. it happens in my own family.

anyways....back to catching up.

ditto

one may be more than competent and have a darker side....agreed

 

[BrianInBirmingham]

This man would have to be super human to return to work knowing his child was dead and not seem odd...I mean that's an Oscar winning performance .. In my opinion...and anytime I type, that's all it is...this was either maliciously premeditated or an accident. The rest is just crazy babble or psychopathic lies. The psychology of his accepting what happened actually could have begun hours earlier and denial took him just so far.... And denial works on all the senses, even smell.

 

[Karmady]

just some thoughts....not necessarily picking on your post but an overall thought process i have seen here in various posts.....

I am with a number of others.....

I dont think it matters how well he did his job, how well liked he was, how well he was rewarded, how many compliments people can say etc etc. how often he helped little ol' ladies across the street, fed the poor, clothed the homeless and so on.

the dude killed his child. period. all of one's positive traits go right out the window once they do something so vile....IMO. IMO, all of those positive things were a facade for the vile person they truly are.

i know a highly decorated military man who went to church, was deployed numerous times, was awarded tons of medals and highly regarded by everyone that knew him..........and he is now sitting in Miramar for sexually abusing his own daughter for most of her life. EVERYONE was shocked. but his wife (a sick woman herself) defends him to this day.

i could list many other stories of nearly [outwardly] perfect people doing horrendous things and everyone who knew them defending them and denying they did anything wrong. i dont care how close you (in general) are to someone....you will never ever ever ever be able to see what goes on in their mind and you will never ever ever be with that person 24/7/365 w/out a break.

i find the closest people are some of the worst people to get a character sketch from in cases such as this. it amazes me the denial family and friends will engage in even with evidence right in their face. it happens in my own family.

anyways....back to catching up.

Because people frequently defend family members or others against accusations of heinous crimes against children doesn't mean that's what's happening in THIS case. Certainly not ok to state, definitively, that "the dude killed his child." If that's qualified with the criminal negligence standard, then yes, MAYBE, he caused the death of his child in a criminally negligent way. The difference between cold blooded pre-meditated child killer and possibly extremely negligent otherwise loving parent is important to me. jmo

 

[Karmady]

It has been reported that Cooper was placed in a rear facing car seat - IMO it would be hard to see him from the rear view mirror. But I don't know the actual seat set up, or what Mr Harris really saw.

I can't get past the documented smell - if the car was sealed and once its door was opened - I think it would have hit Mr Harris immediately. I have a hard time believing he did not react to it and look for the source, but rather started to drive home, then saw Cooper and pulled over to aid him.

Car, bad smell, internet search, hinky what happened story - brings back sad thoughts about another little one's demise. I'm so sorry for baby Cooper, what an awful situation for him; alone, hot and scared with no help to save him. His Dad just needs to tell the truth - what ever it is and give the family peace.

yes, I acknowledged that the seeing of the blueness wouldn't have been in the rearview. It would have been face to face after some other trigger to make the father get out of the car. But, he would have seen the blueness then, so...
I don't know that the smell has been documented. Reported in msm, maybe yes, documented, not so sure. Do you have a link?

 

[prima.facie]

I've put some thought into the choking assertions... First of all, we never heard anything about choking until days and days later. He was certainly saying "I've killed our child"...I tend to think that in the process of CPR there were gurgling sounds coming from the body and in his refusal to accept reality was hoping that he heard his child choking. It's just a hare-brained theory.

there would not be 'gurgling' sounds. also, did you read that CPR was performed? because, from what I have read it was VERY OBVIOUS the child was very very very expired when law enforcement showed up.

but that is neither here nor there. the SMELL of a dead child in a super hot car is more than enough to show the man killed his child and tried to cover it up. i am not sure how anyone can find any excuse for this man.

have you ever smelled the inside of a hot car when FOOD is left in there? it is horrendous. my child once left her unfinished milkshake in the backseat. it sat there ALL day and night during the summer. the smell was disgusting. it made me gag. a dead body? there is NO WAY one would not notice it.

the man knew his kid was dead when he went out there on his break. the man knew his child was dead when he got in the car to leave. the man knew his child was left in the car when he went from CFA to work. it was a daily routine for him. leave home, drop off at daycare, go to work. routines are HARD to break!

and this may not be a popular stance but im sorry, unless there is a record of mental illness....i just dont buy the "whoooooooooooooooooops, i forgot my child was in the car" all day excuse from anyone. and the story mentioned on this thread about the woman who ran into work and an hour later remembered her baby in the car. self absorbed narcissistic woman. no stable woman would do that.

im a mother with a very very stressful life where i have been on my own with her more than not. not once in her 10yrs have i ever FORGOT her existence anywhere. something has to be wrong with a person mentally to 'forget' they have a child in the same small confined space for any amount of time. for someone to purposely do it - a psychopath the likes of casey anthony and jodi arias.

this case has me so fired up....

 

[HMSHood]

First time I have heard a heat death where the parent is charged with second degree murder.

 

[BrianInBirmingham]

there would not be 'gurgling' sounds. also, did you read that CPR was performed? because, from what I have read it was VERY OBVIOUS the child was very very very expired when law enforcement showed up.

but that is neither here nor there. the SMELL of a dead child in a super hot car is more than enough to show the man killed his child and tried to cover it up. i am not sure how anyone can find any excuse for this man.

have you ever smelled the inside of a hot car when FOOD is left in there? it is horrendous. my child once left her unfinished milkshake in the backseat. it sat there ALL day and night during the summer. the smell was disgusting. it made me gag. a dead body? there is NO WAY one would not notice it.

the man knew his kid was dead when he went out there on his break. the man knew his child was dead when he got in the car to leave. the man knew his child was left in the car when he went from CFA to work. it was a daily routine for him. leave home, drop off at daycare, go to work. routines are HARD to break!

and this may not be a popular stance but im sorry, unless there is a record of mental illness....i just dont buy the "whoooooooooooooooooops, i forgot my child was in the car" all day excuse from anyone. and the story mentioned on this thread about the woman who ran into work and an hour later remembered her baby in the car. self absorbed narcissistic woman. no stable woman would do that.

im a mother with a very very stressful life where i have been on my own with her more than not. not once in her 10yrs have i ever FORGOT her existence anywhere. something has to be wrong with a person mentally to 'forget' they have a child in the same small confined space for any amount of time. for someone to purposely do it - a psychopath the likes of casey anthony and jodi arias.

this case has me so fired up....

I'm sorry that you have to live with the stresses of single motherhood. I'm not defending anything. I can assure you that hot car deaths do happen quite often. I'm not sure if it relates to any specific cluster B personality disorders such as narcissism. I have seven children and I've left one or another most everywhere, but I've been fortunate. I'm just an advocate at heart. That's how I function. I don't know this man nor am I defending any aspect of his actions. I am simply speculating. Maybe I can jump into your corner someday... Advocacy is a double-edged sword and I've found myself eating my hat on many occasions. I just want to believe that this world is a better place than it is... I'm sometimes right. . Oh!... And I have a deep seated mistrust of the criminal justice system...and that probably is just some sort of paranoia --- but it's a crippling paranoia that I must try and live with one day at a time.

 

[JeannaT]

I see one problem with that....
Cooper was in full rigor. Dead people can't gurgle. Meant respectfully.

Yes, they can. Dead people can burp and fart hours into rigor. Dead people, in repose, can also suddenly sit a little upright and burp really loud.

I only know this after google searching, and after my father's horrific story of seeing his great uncle in repose, after being dead for several hours, suddenly sit up and burp.

 

[newone]

Yes, they can. Dead people can burp and fart hours into rigor. Dead people, in repose, can also sit a little upright and burp really loud.

I only know this after google searching, and after my father's horrific story of seeing his great uncle in repose, after being dead for several hours, suddenly sit up and burp.

omg...........

I'd need emts after witnessing that

 

[JeannaT]

omg...........

I'd need emts after witnessing that

I know. What SEEMS to be obvious (a cadaver can't burp or gurgle after death, no one could possibly forget a child in the car) turns out to not be so obvious if you look at statistics and history and physiology.

The more I see this dear little Cooper, and his extended family, the sadder and sadder this case gets.

 

[JeannaT]

Good night all. Nice discussion tonight, however sad.