GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #3

[BrianInBirmingham]

BBM

I can easily believe that a person can forget, under certain circumstances. But not under THESE particular ones. It was less than a 5 minute drive from breakfast to his office. And his little boy was verbal, chatty and wide awake.

So how does a father eat breakfast with his son, then buckle him in his seat, and totally forget about him within 5 minutes? That is what makes no sense to me.

I remember a father who forgot about his son in the car, in another case. This man had 2 jobs, and did not usually drop his child off, so he totally forgot. That case I understand. Plus he drove 30 minutes on the fwy, and the baby was asleep.

I Know.... And that's a popular belief. But it can happen and does. That's all. I fully understand your position. Thank you.

 

[human]

I'm thinking the fact he said he was choking which clearly wasn't the case tipped them off....

Didn't he wonder where the baby was all day?

He goes out to the car and his baby is choking while he is driving. The baby he did not pick up at daycare.

Yup. That makes sense.

 

[tut med]

I am still wondering why he was put on unpaid leave on the 18th and how long was that leave?

 

[CClark]

First - I do not have a opinion on this case one way or the other. not enough facts yet.

Now, I would like to comment on the smell of death in and around the car. My comments may seem insensitive, but they are not meant to be so.

Cooper was a toddler, not a large person. lets assume that he had been dead for 6 hours. 6:15 at the most. Given the temperature, this would put him in middle stages of rigor, and in the maximum stage of livor. Neither would have an effect on the smell, but would obviously affect the appearance. His body would have been through the "fresh" stage and VERY beginning the "bloat" stage of decomposition. There would likely be no outside (insect) activity, but there would be processes happening within his body that would result in trapped gasses and fluids.

Here is the "insensitive" part...please skip if you like......

imagine about 14 pounds ( the amount of relevant tissue in the toddler - half body weight) of whatever you want to imagine from your butcher shop, and it is loosely wrapped in a very thick plastic wrap. There are two holes in the wrap, the size of a half dollar at the top, the size of a nickel at the bottom. Imagine this package in the car for that time. The smell would be very noticeable, but not horrible or overpowering. Now, grab the package roughly while you struggle with buckles and straps. Pick it up in the center and squeeze and hold it, pulling it out of the car and setting it on the ground, and compress it, etc., etc.

2 minutes later 2 cops can come along and talk to each other. "did you smell the car? go smell the car!" there is no way he didn't smell that!

remember, the toddler's skin would not be decaying. There would be a build up of gasses and fluids, all of which would be expressed during the process described. It would be obvious that the baby was dead from the beginning, but to a parent, babies are sometimes thought to be alive until they are pried from the parents hands.

Now, am I saying that this was an accident? No. because I don't know.

One more comment:

Behavior after loosing a child in not logical. It is never the same for any 2 people. I lost a son. when I found out, my mind kept playing tricks on me. I kept trying to rationalize what had happened. I literally took hours for it to sink in. I cried. I paced. I cleaned his room. I had a strong appetite. I heard voices. I called a plumber to fix a toilet that had been running on for weeks. I didn't sleep for 2 days. after 40 hours someone pried a shirt of his that I had been gripping in my left hand without knowing it. People didn't recognize my voice on the phone because the stress changed my voice. I would sometimes literally forget to breath, but I walked the dog every hour.

so, my second point:
Activity after he found out his son was dead could be totally illogical. Unless he purposefully killed him. So, if you asked me based on what I have experienced (including 36 years as a nurse): Is it possible that he realized at noon or 4 that he had accidently killed his son, and then innocently did a lot of irrational things afterward?

yes, it is possible.

 

[popsicle]

I am still wondering why he was put on unpaid leave on the 18th and how long was that leave?

This happened on the 18th...he is still on it probably until trial is done if it comes to trial imo

 

[Nana46]

Thin bodies and bodies of children and infants will also cool faster than that of an obese adult because of the surface area to body mass ratio. Furthermore, an obese corpse will take longer to cool because of the insulation provided by subcutaneous fat.


The period of development is influenced by factors such as:

Temperature of the environment - High temperatures both accelerates the onset of rigor mortis and shortens its duration; if the temperature is below 10°C, development of rigor mortis is considered rare.


The processes of death and decomposition: http://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A2451683

NOW - everyone here will have to promise to vouch for on another if anything happens and they find one of us has been "searching" online for information on body decomposition....

AND, since I have almost nooooooooooooo fat on me body I will go faster......oh my word. Isn't that nice to know,lol.

 

[tangelo]

CNN just showed a new product called baby alert that some dads are using when traveling with kids. The FOB like product beeps if you leave kid in auto.

and like the other backseat sensors & leaving purse or phone in back w child, people who rely on these things are not to be trusted with the care of children

 

[Karmady]

I've never left a dead body in my trunk, if that's what you're asking.

But yes, I did leave a 5 pound package of hamburger meat in my car one morning and only discovered it the next morning after it had been in the trunk - in summer heat - for about 24 hours.

It didn't smell bad. But I did throw it away.

O/t, but I had a giant dead rat in my attic less than 10 miles from where this happened. That qualifies me as an expert I think

 

[gngr~snap]

Bartender Artiyka Eastland, 25, of Smyrna
The baby was a grey/blue color, not its natural color. I know he was in the car seat but when the dad placed him on the ground his legs stayed in the same sitting position, as if he was laying on the ground with his knees up in the air stiff. It wasn’t natural.


Eyewitness Edward Cockerham, 49
He was lifeless, he was in the same position as if he were sitting in the carseat,” Hamilton said. “It’s something that I’ll remember for a long time.”

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/autopsy-results-may-answer-questions-in-toddlers-d/ngQwF/

http://m.ajc.com/videos/news/child-dies-after-being-left-in-car-for-nearly-8/vCfTBg/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-animal-die-hot-car-toddler-son-died-way.html

 

[Karmady]

This whole thread off-shoot is getting painful to read. If we cannot take info given to us by a reporter who claims to have spoken to two LE sources and discuss it as reasonable info in the case, what is the point of this entire website?? We can only take info from official documents and court proceedings as "facts" because then we have "proof"? Even then it's not "proof", it's stuff thrown at a wall lawyers hope will stick. Isn't this a forum for discussing information, getting more information and sharing ideas? Otherwise... what is the point??

I agree there's little point to the discussion if the information being discussed can't be relied on, but that's the msm's fault. Not the fault of the site or the posters. Plus, not speaking for the owners, but if I had to guess I'd say the policy about no discussion unless it's in the msm has more to do with potential liability than the veracity of the information. In other words, if the msm is printing it, it's safe to put it here. jmo

 

[Judicious1]

Didn't he wonder where the baby was all day?

He goes out to the car and his baby is choking while he is driving. The baby he did not pick up at daycare.

Yup. That makes sense.

Well if you read through the previous treads you would know that he doesn't normally pick up the child from daycare so that's a non issue if we choose to believe that info is correct. I don't believe he was choking and didn't imply he was.

Parents who accidentally leave their children in the car have stated they really think the child is dropped of. So I'm sure he thought about his child many times but it wouldn't trigger an oh no moment because he thought he was at the daycare all day.

This assuming it was an accident.

 

[popsicle]

Well if you read through the previous treads you would know that he doesn't normally pick up the child from daycare so that's a non issue if we choose to believe that info is correct. I don't believe he was choking and didn't imply he was.

Parents who accidentally leave their children in the car have stated they really think the child is dropped of. So I'm sure he thought about his child many times but it wouldn't trigger an oh no moment because he thought he was at the daycare all day.

This assuming it was an accident.

His set of circumstances doesn't fit the typical circumstances you find with parents that forget their baby is in the car and leave it to die. jmo

 

[JeannaT]

His set of circumstances doesn't fit the typical circumstances you find with parents that forget their baby is in the car and leave it to die. jmo

Yes they do. Did you read Kids and Cars link? Adding an extra stop is one of the two most problematic situations.

As hard as it is to believe, going to Chick Fil A instead of going straight to work is problematic, as far as forgetting your baby is concerned.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

His set of circumstances doesn't fit the typical circumstances you find with parents that forget their baby is in the car and leave it to die. jmo

Actually it is. Changing routines in anyway can make you forget. It is odd, but just think of times you are driving somewhere different, and then realize you went the way you usually went and have to turn around.

I think we have all done that.

 

[Karmady]

His set of circumstances doesn't fit the typical circumstances you find with parents that forget their baby is in the car and leave it to die. jmo

I wonder if he didn't get a phone call or return one in that time. Especially if he was expected at work earlier than he arrived. Add his cell phone log to the list of things I'll be interested to see.

 

[SStarr33]

He has worked at Home Depot for two years. Home Depot Corporate Communications Manager Catherine H. Woodling said he worked "on our .com business, but I'm not sure what his title is."

He should have been fired before this. Their website sucks

 

[LietKynes]

Bartender Artiyka Eastland, 25, of Smyrna
The baby was a grey/blue color, not its natural color. I know he was in the car seat but when the dad placed him on the ground his legs stayed in the same sitting position, as if he was laying on the ground with his knees up in the air stiff. It wasn’t natural.


Eyewitness Edward Cockerham, 49
He was lifeless, he was in the same position as if he were sitting in the carseat,” Hamilton said. “It’s something that I’ll remember for a long time.”

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/autopsy-results-may-answer-questions-in-toddlers-d/ngQwF/

http://m.ajc.com/videos/news/child-dies-after-being-left-in-car-for-nearly-8/vCfTBg/

RSBM

Thanks, gngr~snap ; I knew I'd read that earlier when this happened, but I couldn't find it.

So, Cooper was in full rigor mortis and was in the sitting position ; and not laid out limp and flat ?
So he may have been dead when J.H. went out to his vehicle at noon ? (that part just does it for me) Even if Harris forgot in a few minutes that Cooper was in the suv, he would have noticed him at the lunch break.
Sorry -- I really want to swear so badly !!!
:moo:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

RSBM

Thanks, gngr~snap ; I knew I'd read that earlier when this happened, but I couldn't find it.

So, Cooper was in full rigor mortis and was in the sitting position ; and not laid out limp and flat ?
So he may have been dead when J.H. went out to his vehicle at noon ? (that part just does it for me) Even if Harris forgot in a few minutes that Cooper was in the suv, he would have noticed him at the lunch break.
Sorry -- I really want to swear so badly !!!
:moo:

He would not have seen him at lunch. The car seat would have prevented that.

I am just not sure of this info yet.

 

[Karmady]

Actually it is. Changing routines in anyway can make you forget. It is odd, but just think of times you are driving somewhere different, and then realize you went the way you usually went and have to turn around.

I think we have all done that.

I do that constantly. Once, at night, I drove more than 50 miles out of my way until I ran into the freeway barricades before I realized I hadn't gotten off at my exit. lol

 

[Lorne Malvo]

going to Chick Fil A instead of going straight to work is problematic, as far as forgetting your baby is concerned.

Millions of people have breakfast on the way to work and no toddler has been fried in their own family auto - until now. Fortunately Georgia is a state that still executes. Expert on HLN said when convicted they would push for execution.