GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #5

[octobermoon]

Well, if someone was supposed to drop Cooper off and "forgot" for 7 hours. Then someone was supposed to pick Cooper up at some point as well. He was on his way to daycare so of course someone was supposed to pick him up that day.

It was stated early on that the routine was that RH dropped him off every day, and Mom picked him up from daycare every day because she worked part time and RH worked full time.

So, on the day his father "Forgot" to drop him off in the morning..who was supposed to pick him up?

If it was Mom's usual routine as has been reported, why didn't she on this day? Or did she intend too but RH left work before she could get there and staged his discovery of Cooper?

If it was RH was supposed to drop him off AND pick him up why was he on his way to meet friends for drinks at 4:20 P.M.?

We know who was SUPPOSED to drop the baby off at daycare that day.

Who was supposed to be picking up Cooper that day? And why didn't it happen?

Did Mom usually pick him up at around 5 or so? Is that why RH left work at 4:20, and "discovered Cooper" in the parking lot before mom would arrive at daycare?

Did mom usually pick him up earlier in the day? If so, what changed? Who initiated the change? What planning of pick up/drop off occurred between the parents?

Did daycare attempt to contact RH or LH to alert that cooper had not arrived? That daycare does not refund for absences, so it is my opinion that they would likely contact a parent for that reason as well as for safety reasons and due diligence.

IMO he left early so the "discovery" could be made before Mommy or whoever was to pick him up. Can't wait to hear what the daycare has to say.

 

[tlcya]

my bad, I was reading old material. Georgia does have manslaughter - both voluntary and involuntary available. It is simply degrees of murder that they do not account for.

In Georgia, the term homicide encompasses all acts of the killing of another human. Murder and manslaughter are very serious homicide crimes. The state of Georgia does not have varying degrees of murder. In Georgia, there is only one degree of murder. Murder is committed when a person intentionally kills another, acts with depraved disregard for human life, or kills another person while committing a felonious crime.

http://www.criminaldefensepros.com/...ate-Crimes/Murder-Homicide-Manslaughter.shtml

 

[RANCH]

We haven't heard ALL the evidence yet.

I'm thinking the charges are brilliant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your correct that we haven't heard all of the evidence yet and I may change my mind after we learn more.

At this point I don't see the felony child cruelty which requires the "willful and wanton" action on JRH's part.

JMO.

 

[NancyA]

BBM

Georgia does have involuntary manslaughter in it's criminal statutes.



In my opinion, involuntary manslaughter seems to fit this case better than felony murder.

http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-5/article-1/16-5-3

How so? Explain how leaving a child unattended in a car - even inadvertently - is a lawful act.

 

[Elley Mae]

IMO he left early so the "discovery" could be made before Mommy or whoever was to pick him up. Can't wait to hear what the daycare has to say.

I wonder what his co workers have said about his behavior that day at work.
Also did he park in the same area that he usually did.

 

[CCmakes3]

:scared::scared::scared::tantrum: And This! Now I read This!! That's it; this couple is whack, and yes lets give the murderer a round of applause at his victims funeral. talk about pissing on a grave, he did it from jail and his wife made it happen. I blame both; and I hope charges are filed against her. Let's find out the truth: When and How Much Life Insurance on this Child. That's All I need to Know at this point.:banghead::tantrum:

Agreed. Even if you think he's innocent, does he really deserve a round of applause for being stupid and careless enough to forget his child in a car for seven hours? A Darwin Award maybe, but NOT a standing ovation at the same ceremony where a precious life is being mourned.

Let's say the cops decided not to charge him and he was sitting right there at the funeral....would it be in good taste for him to stand up and be recognized with a round of applause as the man responsible for the death of this child? Have you ever seen that happen at a funeral? No, it is unheard of, so clearly the applause was a show of support for the accused and had nothing to do with poor, dead Cooper.

 

[LambChop]

If he clearly believed he negligently left his son in there, WTH did he plead not guilty?

If the jury found him not guilty, because they consider intent...there can be a mistrial. They can't find him innocent if they believe he did not premeditate, because the charges do not include that. I don't care what they do in their heads, but if that plays a factor in the verdict, that is BIG problem.

You can only plead guilty or not guilty. Guilty the judge would sentence you. Everyone is entitled to a trial by jury. It is your right, but to get one you must plead "not guilty". If you were to plead "guilty" there would be no need for a trial. jmo


Anyone know in which direction the daycare was???? Was it in the same area as his workplace? One half mile down the road is too soon to forget you have to drop your son off at daycare. Turning left or right out of Chik-fil-A is too short of a time to forget you have to drop your son off in the other direction from work.

 

[octobermoon]

I wonder what his co workers have said about his behavior that day at work.

Me too. Sure has been quiet. Not a lot of folks running for a camera or microphone.

 

[RANCH]

How so? Explain how leaving a child unattended in a car - even inadvertently - is a lawful act.

I never said that it's a lawful act. I said that I believe involuntary manslaughter,which is an unlawful act, fits this case better than felony murder.

JMO.

 

[NancyA]

Me too. Sure has been quiet. Not a lot of folks running for a camera or microphone.

I'm pretty sure they have been advised/warned by Home Depot, who may or may not be as we speak circling their own legal wagons to protect themselves from any hint of a liability suit, to keep their mouths shut - tight.

 

[matou]

He must have drugged Cooper. How could a child not cry when trapped in a vehicle for any amount of time? Cooper would have cried IMO.

 

[octobermoon]

I'm pretty sure they have been advised/warned by Home Depot, who may or may not be as we speak circling their own legal wagons to protect themselves from any hint of a liability suit, to keep their mouths shut - tight.

Good point!

 

[matou]

Leanna Harris does not face any criminal charges, but police have said she is part of their ongoing investigation.

http://www.kvue.com/story/news/2014/06/30/police-mom-hot-car-death/11759815/

 

[NancyA]

I never said that it's a lawful act. I said that I believe involuntary manslaughter,which is an unlawful act, fits this case better than felony murder.

JMO.

I'm confused then. So which lawful act was he conducting in an unlawful manner for the involuntary manslaughter charge to apply?

ETA never mind forget it - I am getting my unlawfuls and lawfuls confused.

 

[Violet1820]

I'm pretty sure they have been advised/warned by Home Depot, who may or may not be as we speak circling their own legal wagons to protect themselves from any hint of a liability suit, to keep their mouths shut - tight.

I agree. I also think that he did not "discover" Cooper at work because he had every intention of returning to work after this horrible "accident".

 

[matou]

The warrants do not disclose when the searches took place. Criminal defense attorney Steve Sadow, who is not directly involved with the case, said that information could be crucial.

"We don't know the context or the timing that these searches took place," Sadow said. "Let's assume there was some event the parents saw several weeks ago dealing with the death of a child and they just decided to go up on the internet."

"That's different than if it's 24 to 48 hours before the incident occurred, which makes it look too coincidental."

http://www.kvue.com/story/news/2014/06/30/police-mom-hot-car-death/11759815/

 

[RANCH]

I'm confused then. So which lawful act was he conducting in an unlawful manner for the involuntary manslaughter charge to apply?

Driving his car. Going to work etc. The unlawful part is leaving Cooper in the hot car to die.

 

[Spice]

I never said that it's a lawful act. I said that I believe involuntary manslaughter,which is an unlawful act, fits this case better than felony murder.

JMO.

And the COD has been stated as hypothermia in the manner of homicide.

Not accidental death.

Gitana? Can you help here?

ETA: I linked the meaning of felony murder in Georgia further down in the thread.

 

[hopingicanhelp]

I must admit I have considered this possiblity but the thing is, while tox is not back COD was physiologically determined at autopsy to have been hyperthermia, death by extreme heat.

MOD is homicide or not but COD was determined without doubt to have been hyperthermia. So when did Cooper die in the hot car if not that day? If he was met by mom at CFA to hand over a dead child to place in the car seat when did he die? Because autopsy supports he died that day in that car?

My thought was that if he was covering, that he was ALONE at Chick-Fil-A, went to work, didn't notice anything when he dropped off something in his car at lunch, and truly "discovered" Cooper after work & pulled into the parking lot; he knew about the conducted searches and realized what more than likely had happened & had enough presence of mind to put it all on himself (volunteering that he did the searches, yelling "What have I done?", etc) -- WHEN was Cooper (perhaps asleep but still alive) placed in the car ... ??? *** Still not sure about breakfast; when I go back and read the links I'm confused as to what comments are most current -- it seems now that they FIRST said JH buckled Cooper in at Chick-Fil-A and then LATER said they can no longer confirm, but it could be the other way around??? Anyone?

A lot of people need to be explicitly told this - particularly people who maybe did not grow up in a household with a car (particularly pre-air conditioners) and didn't experience how insanely hot a car can get.

SBM
I agree that some people need to be told a LOT of things when it comes to babies -- it wouldn't hurt in the hospitals, pediatrician's offices, and even OB offices to "brief" expectant & new parents on the dangers of leaving their child alone in a vehicle -- kind of like some already do about "Back to Sleep" to avoid SIDS and other things.

I find this statement to be very unusual. It portrays a somewhat negative view of life. What about the joys, accomplishments, and landmarks of childhood? Was there some thought about sparing the child from life's pitfalls? This almost implies that the child is better off not living.

"A family friend got on stage with Cooper’s mother and asked the crowd of nearly 200 people to give Ross Harris a round of applause. Leanna said God was holding her up through this time. She said she'll miss her son forever, but now he will not have to deal with heartbreak, worry about awkward stages or deal with middle or high school."

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/cobb-county-father-makes-jailhouse-call-sons-funer/ngT8H/

This statement really, really bothers me -- it could be viewed two ways IMO:
1) She's trying to comfort herself & keep it together by convincing herself of the suffering Cooper will not have to endure; trying to think "positively" -- as a mother, she will never have to worry about Cooper's safety or happiness again
2) Without even realizing it, she's trying to sell the congregation on the same line of thinking that justified *anybody's* possible planning of any portion of the events leading to Cooper's death.

All just MOO and speculation!!

 

[who knew?]

Hmmm. Well, I will say that I don't think a person should be eligible for the death penalty if there was literally no intent to harm or intent to commit a crime in their action.

There are varying degrees of culpability in the law when it comes to intent. And that goes all the way from slightly poor judgement, horribly poor judgement, to full on intent to cause harm or death. It's a gradient.

As I read this case and these charges, it looks to me, that these charges that include the death penalty could be assessed to someone who had no intent whatsoever to do any harm at all and absolutely no intent to commit a crime and no chance at "poor judgement" as they had made no judgements at all.

So. This discussion is bigger than this one case. My point is, that in a situation where it's very clear to ALL involved that a parent literally forgot their child in the back seat of the car, they could lawfully be charged the way Harris is being charged, and they could lawfully receive the death penalty although all involved - prosecutor, defense, LE, judge, jury all agree the person literally had forgotten the child until the child had passed away.

I am really uncomfortable with that.

So as an analogy, imagine a parent getting out of the car to get their child, closing their door, coming around to the child's door and falling and bumping their heads. Lying there unconscious for 15 minutes and then rousing in a completely confused way, wandering in to work being disoriented and meanwhile the poor child expires in the car.

No one in this discussion would fault that parent, IMHO. I think it would be a very very rare person who wouldn't empathize and give that parent a pass. Why? Because everyone believes it. They believe that parent could have lost that memory through a concussion.

So is that the nitty gritty of it here? Those who are willing to be empathetic believe it could happen that Harris forgot this baby, and the others frankly just don't believe anyone could forget in his situation?

I think that's it. I would love to hear what people say who have very harsh feelings toward him. Do you simply NOT BELIEVE it's possible to forget a child in that situation, and so no amount of family support, friends support, a squeaky clean past, no evidence whatsoever from anyone anywhere that he was unhappy as a dad will get you past that core believe that it's simply impossible - unlike the head injured person - for Harris to have forgotten.

(An aside, I wake myself up naturally in the morning at any time I want to, even at the crack of dawn, I have a perfect internal alarm clock. I don't use an alarm clock and never have. So I always have little patience with people who "oversleep" and miss things. Because somewhere in my mind I'm faulting them for doing it on purpose. I never do it. Why do these people need technology of an alarm or someone to come remind them to wake up? Same thing to me. I get forgetting something out of routine, I don't get people who can't remember to wake up.)

Anyway, Gitana, interesting question.

I see what you are saying. If this were my family or friend, I'd probably feel the same way (I think, but idk). Since I don't personally know anyone involved, I don't have a problem with the charges or punishment.

May I ask you what punishment you think would apply in this case? (Not including the emotional self-imposed penalty.). What do you see as an answer to this considering it may end up being the "new" way to get rid of unwanted kids?