GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #6

[ahintexas]

BBM
That is so different that it can't be compared to this case. People do use water to bathe, shower, swim in, boat, water ski, etc....

Is there some recreational activity that involves baking to death in a hot car?

And anyone with common sense knows a child/animal will die if left in hot . vehicle. Is there really a need to look it up? Or research it? Common sense to me. :-/

 

[SStarr33]

Authorities later said they received information that Harris went to his SUV during lunchtime, and put something in it.

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2014/06/wife_of_justin_ross_harris_als.html

I guess they received the info from RH.

 

[x_files]

And anyone with common sense knows a child/animal will die if left in hot . vehicle. Is there really a need to look it up? Or research it? Common sense to me. :-/

I assumed it was common sense, but common sense isn't that common anymore.
I research and search up all kinds of info.
I recently searched what to do if I see a dog in a locked, hot car, but not how long does it take for the dog to die.
I assume it doesn't take long.
I found a German Shepard puppy locked in a hot car and stood by the car. I was told to mind my own *advertiser censored**cking business, I regret not smashing the window and taking the dog home.
Realistically I have no idea how long a dog can be left safely in a car, 20 minutes max?! EDIT: (There's no safe amount of time. No time. Should rescue dog immediately by calling police)

 

[sorrell skye]

And this proves to me that LE is not trying to influence public opinion. I'm watching CNN right now (VinnieP), and LE are not offering statements to them either.

I don't believe LE/DA are trying to influence public opinion or sentiment, either. They've been very careful to protect the integrity of the investigation and the successful prosecution of this case. Aside from a few unauthorized anonymous early leaks regarding the internet searches (which was subsequently verified after the warrants were released), LE has said little to nothing.

I don't think the first responders' comments regarding the smell in the vehicle will have any impact on prospective jurors. If this goes to trial (as opposed to a plea bargain), any potential juror who has followed the media regarding this case or who may have already formed an opinion will be ruled out during voir dire.

IMO, if anyone has been trying to influence public opinion/sentiment, it's those who've made statements in RH's defense at Cooper's public funeral, knowing full well the media was in attendance and would report what was said.

 

[Spice]

The words of an Atlanta Defense Attorney commenting on the case:

Warrants indicate Harris went to his car at lunch time and put something in it. It is unclear if he noticed his son in the back seat at that time.

Giudice said if Harris did not see Cooper strapped in the back at lunch time, he certainly should have noticed the toddler well before he started driving home from work.

"There is no question based on my experience, by the end of the afternoon when he opened that car door, there is going to be testimony that the temperature of that car and the odor of death would have hit him flush in the face right then," said Giudice.

My sentiments exactly.

http://www.cbs46.com/story/25882323/defense-attorney

 

[MissJ]

And anyone with common sense knows a child/animal will die if left in hot . vehicle. Is there really a need to look it up? Or research it? Common sense to me. :-/

Yes but apparently we are expected to believe they have premonitions, no common sense and are just forgetful.:moo:

 

[Lyra500]

Straying into the realms of pure speculation here, so apologies in advance.

The story about the dream recounted by RH's father at the funeral bothers me.

I wonder how long ago this 'dream' took place.

It conjures up further pretty uncomfortable thoughts about pre-meditation.

He already seemed to set great store by his role as a coach - is he crazy enough to have anticipated some sort of outpouring of sympathy and support following the death which might lead to a more prominent role in the church or his local community? Did he hope people would hear about his dream and think it was some sort of premonition and that he and his wife were somehow 'destined' to do God's work having lost their son?

Far fetched I know,but given the overall weirdness of this whole case, I do wonder.

 

[LisaB]

Great article packed with facts, if it is accurate info. Along with other things mentioned, it was the passenger's side door that he opened at lunch.

"Police said on Wednesday that Harris actually RETURNED to his car at lunch while at work to put something in the front passenger seat"


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-animal-die-hot-car-toddler-son-died-way.html

From the same article "And early Wednesday, police said that 'during lunch said accused did access the same vehicle through the driver's side door to place an object into the vehicle', hours before the drama unfolded."

 

[Lyra500]

No, I'm female. That's my missing cousin in my avatar. She didn't hold my hand though...

Gosh - apologies for getting you gender completely wrong.:blushing:

I am also sorry your cousin is missing.

I suppose the lack of hand holding has to be viewed as a silver lining to that particular cloud. I can totally understand where she was coming from though, however annoying it must have felt to you.

 

[Hoosgirl]

Sounds like HLN was thinking the same as some of our esteemed ws members . Too bad they didn't do with a car with tinted windows!

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/06/25/how-quickly-temperature-rises-in-car-hot-day

 

[blue22]

The examples are legion, but here's one for the record:

from the link:

In a blunt and scathing ruling, District Judge Louis Sturns said Anderson acted to defraud the trial court and Morton’s defense lawyers, resulting in an innocent man serving almost 25 years in prison.

“This court cannot think of a more intentionally harmful act than a prosecutor’s conscious choice to hide mitigating evidence so as to create an uneven playing field for a defendant facing a murder charge and a life sentence,” Sturns said.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/ken-anderson-court-of-inquiry-resumes/nXRLm/

What does that have to do with this case?

 

[NancyA]

It was HIS failure to drop the baby off, NOT her failure to pick him up that resulted in this death, IMO.

Absolutely agree, no blame attaches to the mother in any of what is known so far in this case. Even if she was supposed to pick him up, whatever time that was, baby boy was long dead already.

 

[Lyra500]

I guess they received the info from RH.

I think if they had been told this by RH they would have said so. They clearly quote what he said elsewhere. They say they 'received information'. To me this suggests the information came from a source that was not RH's statement.


:moo:

 

[Hamsterdance]

If the child was obviously past dead, I don't believe anyone would have helped with CPR. I am just not sure of the facts here and the drama added comments.

The Best companion to law is reason. Not emotion.

I have to live there to see this case. When I apply reason, I see facts. Ones that at this point do not add up to murder.

I in no means want to argue or convince anyone to feel a certain way. I am aware from personal experience that even if someone has been deceased for several hours, 911 will tell the caller to perform CPR. Also RH was also telling people that his son had just been chocking.

I was going to reply earlier to a discussion that was going on in this thread this morning, and wasn’t sure if it was relevant enough or if I should post it or not, but I will go ahead just in case it helps clarify about the CPR. So here goes.

I agree that reason would dictate that you don’t perform CPR on an obviously dead person, but the general public isn’t qualified to make that determination, and due to legalities I imagine that is why CPR is always advised. Even attending paramedics are required to perform CPR first until advised otherwise by their superiors.

From personal experience, I can also confirm this. The day before my husband died (3 1/2 years ago), I was told by the Fire chief and paramedics who attended my home that I had to get a DNR in place immediately, or they would have to perform CPR on him even if he had passed away by the time I called. They told me that it is protocol, and not a situation we wanted to find ourselves in, because it would involve forceful CPR and breaking of ribs When we arrived at the hospital, the Dr. and nurses told me the same thing. I hadn't signed the form before, because I didn't want to give up hope, even though I knew he wasn't going to get better. That day I signed the form. He died at home that night, and it was apparent to me in the morning when I woke up on the couch next to his hospital bed. I knew right away just from seeing his face. It was quite obvious. He died in his sleep, and I did not perform CPR. His death was expected, from a progressive disease that left him completely paralyzed and dependent on machines to eat and breathe. However, prior to the signing of the DNR- I was still in "save mode" and would have done CPR or anything to try to save him, until the Dr. finally convinced me I had to let go.

I called the nursing agency who visited our home that morning after my kids left for school (I was in shock, and felt it was better to get them out of the house without letting on what had happened until it was confirmed.) Apparently they hadn't received a copy of the DNR in time and told me they would have to call 911 and they would come and perform CPR. Even though I explained that his colour was quite off and he likely passed away several hours earlier during the night (I estimate 7 hours earlier, because although he was on full oxygen, none of his extremities registered on the pulse oximeter I used to check his O2 levels before I went to sleep, and we all knew it was just a matter of time.) I couldn't bring myself to touch him that morning, so I couldn't say if he was stiff I just knew immediately from looking at him.

Fortunately, I was able to get ahold of his Dr., who came to the house to declare him dead, and that avoided the CPR. He told me that if he hadn't been able to come, Fire, ambulance, and police would have had to come and do CPR and make a full report. This is exactly what happened to a neighbour who died of a heart attack recently.

I don't know why they can't just check for the obvious signs and declare the person dead. I guess to avoid being sued. I haven't researched it, I just know that is the procedure in Ontario, and it seems to be the case elsewhere as well.

PS, there was no smell that I detected, but most likely because my nose was used to certain smells, such as infected sores/feces. Also, he had been laying there without being moved. When the funeral home attendants arrived, they were very careful when moving him and even then I don't recall a distinctive odour. However- this was in a ventilated room temperature house in winter, not inside a hot vehicle baking. Those conditions surely would accelerate decomposition and IMO there would be some odour. I've smelled odours in my van after food scraps have been left in the little garbage for several hours.

IMO Cooper's Dad should have noticed a smell when he entered his vehicle, and that should have triggered his memory about his son being there. He would have been hit by the wave of heat and odour that escapes when you open a vehicle door on a hot day. When he did finally realize his son was there, he should have been able to tell immediately that his son was dead as soon as he saw him. IMO it would have been obvious just from looking at his son, especially when he picked him up. Even if he was in denial, the reality would have snapped him to his senses. Regardless, 911 would have advised any bystander to perform CPR until paramedics arrived to take over, simply because random citizens aren't qualified to make that determination of "well, this baby is obviously dead so I'm not going to try", and they can’t risk not trying to save someone. A qualified medical professional would have to attend and make that call after their own attempts to revive the person. Many times people have been revived by CPR after a being briefly deceased, but in this case the operator would not have known how long the baby had been deceased. Even if CPR was started before the call was made, it would be instinctive to try and revive someone.

I also can’t imagine him walking away to make calls while someone else took over CPR. I guess that adds to the behaviour that made witnesses and LE suspicious. IMO most parents would be at their child’s side, trying to assist in any way possible.

 

[Hoosgirl]

Interesting short article on public opinion about the case via social media:

http://m.wsbradio.com/news/news/local/social-media-now-attacking-both-harris-parents/ngWwB/

 

[LinasK]

Posted: 10:41 a.m. Tuesday, July 1, 2014
KTVU and Wires
ROHNERT PARK, Calif. —
A San Jose woman was arrested for child endangerment Monday night after she allegedly left two children in a parked car at the Graton Resort & Casino near Rohnert Park, Sonoma County sheriff's officials said.
A sheriff's deputy on patrol noticed a small child sitting in the back seat of a black Honda around 11:40 p.m., sheriff's Sgt. Cecile Focha said.
The 10-year-old girl told the deputy her mother left her in the car to take care of her 1-year-old brother while she was in the casino, Focha said.The car was parked on the upper level of the parking garage with the keys in the ignition in the "on" position, Focha said. More at link: http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/gambling-mom-arrested-leaving-kids-car/ngXNz/

 

[Lorne Malvo]

I am ridiculously holistic with my children. They eat whole, organic foods. They play with wood, made in the EU or US toys. They have minimal plastic toys (gifts from others), they drink from glass or stainless steel, eat on plates like normal people vs plastic plates. We exercise, garden, play outside regularly. TV is very limited. Extended breastfeeding, cosleeping, natural birth - you name it.

HOWEVER, my kids are allowed to have CERTAIN fast foods. Once a week, I take them to Chick Fil A. I don't allow them to have McD's or anything like that, and they can have Coca Cola at birthday parties and stuff. I don't want them to be 'weirdos' or unable to relate to other kids, so while I don't keep processed foods or fizzy drinks in my house, I believe in moderation.

JMO, but I don't think her being a dietician/nutritionist would mean her child never ate fast food. Neither of the parents look to be in some kind of prime physique to where I would think that they don't regularly indulge in junk.

Agree. Photo of mom, dad, Cooper I saw looked like mom had gained considerable weight since 2006 marriage when she was taking nutrition classes. I've seen nothing that says she got a degree and or even worked in that field. She worked part time. I do wonder where she worked. Based on seeing her weight gain and hubby's chubby and understanding the obesity problem in the south I don't imagine they were eating healthy foods regularly.

 

[Cinnamon]

I doubt the corporate offices routinely allowed employees to come in late or to work less than an 8-hour day. This guy worked less than 7 hours and was headed to drinks and a movie. By golly, nobody was going to tell him what to do!

I think the breakfast out is a key to unraveling this case....a last meal that didn't involve Mom, who was a dietician. Dad took total control of the child from her. Daddy was very angry, imo. Angry at baby, Mommy and his boss.

JMO

That depends. It's been stated that he's an IT guy. People in IT positions don't always work "normal" hours. I rarely do. Also, an explanation of the less than 8-hour day - speaking from my own personal IT experience - if I've worked MORE than a typical 8-hour day working on an IT emergency (happens often), I only work half-a-day on another day(s) in that week or pay period so as not to go over 40 hours/week. As a non-exempt employee, I'm not allowed to work over 40 hours w/o compensation. I get the option of overtime OR working shorter days. Not defending him, just offering my opinion on his work hours (or lack thereof) on that day. MOO.

 

[Hamsterdance]

I just don't understand how he forgot the baby in the car? He just ate breakfast with him, and drove less than a mile to work. And if he was use to dropping the child off at daycare, why didn't he go get him that day? Or attempt to? He said he was heading to meet friends. Was the wife supposed to pick child up from daycare? So many unanswered questions.

Agreed. There have been a couple of times when I've gotten busy, forgetful, or tired and forgot to pick my kids up from school after being separated for hours if it wasn't in my regular routine.

However, never ever have I forgotten that any of them was in my vehicle. Especially not after just a few moments, and after just strapping him in after breakfast. Typically, the next few minutes would be spent conversing with the child and asking if they enjoyed their meal.

 

[Hamsterdance]

Posted: 10:41 a.m. Tuesday, July 1, 2014
KTVU and Wires
ROHNERT PARK, Calif. —
A San Jose woman was arrested for child endangerment Monday night after she allegedly left two children in a parked car at the Graton Resort & Casino near Rohnert Park, Sonoma County sheriff's officials said.
A sheriff's deputy on patrol noticed a small child sitting in the back seat of a black Honda around 11:40 p.m., sheriff's Sgt. Cecile Focha said.
The 10-year-old girl told the deputy her mother left her in the car to take care of her 1-year-old brother while she was in the casino, Focha said.The car was parked on the upper level of the parking garage with the keys in the ignition in the "on" position, Focha said. More at link: http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/gambling-mom-arrested-leaving-kids-car/ngXNz/

:banghead: