GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #1

[Snails]

And at 9:34am GERard googled 'Psychiatrists Brisbane West'.
:sigh:
:drumroll:​

Um sorry to correct you Poss but its GerRED.
:floorlaugh:

 

[wewillgetyou]

Nigel BC said in the witness box yesterday that when he asked GBC if there was anything he could do for him on that Friday while he was busy with the police GBC replied - He told 'Rob' he'd water his plants and vacuum the carpet for Saturday.
I take this 'Rob' to be a Rob Cheeseman , GBC's friend.

This would explain the vacuuming - doing it as a favour to a friend whose house you were trying to sell. I don't find that so unusual to be honest.

 

[possumheart]

Gehaareddhh
?​

 

[royster]

I think the BC's were the ones with the façade i.e " keep everything looking happy" and Allison was pressured to keep up the façade. But she was open and honest with her friends and colleagues unlike others close to her.

I agree to some degree, but I think that she did try pretty hard to keep up appearances as well. Something I think is relatively normal in her situation. I just feel that the staff had a pre conceived notion that she was depressed - like it had been openly talked about. I wonder whether the poor lady felt the need to address it.

 

[possumheart]

:laugh:

What a shame he didn't do that years earlier, huh?

 

[LadyBird1]

Lol yes Ladybird I wondered that too. Usually they have contract cleaners and bill the departing owners/tenants don't they?

Even if they were taking drastic budget measures and going DYI, I'd imagine some poor office minion being sent to do it, not the mighty Bwana

It's not just that Neuromancer. If a real estate agent is looking after a place that is say rented, and there is a small problem, like say a light bulb needs fixing, then the real estate person makes a note, contacts the owner, says, what do you want to do, fix it yourself, or get our contract handyman, who can do the job. (It's called creating employment.) "Your call owner." Never have I met a Real Estate agent who does anything remotely like that. No matter how menial. To be actually vacuuming, or hosing, we'll, that would be something else again.

 

[AAAA]

Well what an emotional few days. To see all the familiar names back on here after so long really pulls at the heartstrings. I have always thought that even though he wanted out of the marriage and had told his mistress a date -that the events that night were not pre meditated. After the girls went to sleep ( and saw mum on the couch watching TV) I believe a domestic argument broke out - probably about the next day's conference. In my opinion things escalated and Allison did change and leave the house distressed( noise was heard in varying directions). Things may have been "heated " in the carport , hence the botanic matter found and GBC's scratches. But I do believe ABC left on foot and was mortally challenged in a second area by someone who followed in a car.

All in my own opinion

I believe that things got heated in the house, given that GBC had bruises on his chest/armpits because to me they didn't look like marks that would be done through clothing. I think perhaps he was shirtless, maybe just got out of the shower and the fight continued to flare up? Then maybe to the garage, but to me the foliage in her hair must have happened postmortem. If they'd fought in the carport and she had leaves etc in her hair , but decided to take off up the road, wouldn't she have dusted herself off a bit to keep appearances normal to any public that May have seen her? I would.

 

[royster]

I believe that things got heated in the house, given that GBC had bruises on his chest/armpits because to me they didn't look like marks that would be done through clothing. I think perhaps he was shirtless, maybe just got out of the shower and the fight continued to flare up? Then maybe to the garage, but to me the foliage in her hair must have happened postmortem. If they'd fought in the carport and she had leaves etc in her hair , but decided to take off up the road, wouldn't she have dusted herself off a bit to keep appearances normal to any public that May have seen her? I would.

Good points. I just think if they happened post mortem he would have removed them. I believe away from the house and in the dark they weren't noticed.

 

[Total]

It's not just that Neuromancer. If a real estate agent is looking after a place that is say rented, and there is a small problem, like say a light bulb needs fixing, then the real estate person makes a note, contacts the owner, says, what do you want to do, fix it yourself, or get our contract handyman, who can do the job. (It's called creating employment.) "Your call owner." Never have I met a Real Estate agent who does anything remotely like that. No matter how menial. To be actually vacuuming, or hosing, we'll, that would be something else again.

Maybe that is why GBC was doing so well business wise.:crosseyed::crosseyed::crosseyed:

 

[Timmy]

It'll be interesting to see nig trying to control the speed of the questions and answers. I think he is a pubic speaker and is used to opening everything from chip packets to scout toilet blocks.
:blushing:

BBM
:floorlaugh:

P.S Thanks everyone for the updates. Much appreciated!

 

[Minerva]

Hello all, long time lurker, first time poster…

Not sure how to post the link, but the Daily Mail (Australia) has a 3D tour of the BC house and still photos of the BC home posted…ready for sleuthing…I hope this is the right thread to post this information in, it is certainly the most current and active.

So impressed with the care and consideration all of the posters demonstrate in this forum

 

[laserdisc10]

I agree to some degree, but I think that she did try pretty hard to keep up appearances as well. Something I think is relatively normal in her situation. I just feel that the staff had a pre conceived notion that she was depressed - like it had been openly talked about. I wonder whether the poor lady felt the need to address it.

Maybe prosecution are giving the depression aspect an airing nice and early and relying on the jury to work out that yes, someone with issues of depression caused initially by anti-malarial meds facing an ongoing affair between their husband and a staff member in addition to a collapsing business, potential loss of income, living in a rental, three young children, etc. would be depressed. That way, defence can't spring up with a surprise depression-suicide angle to explain Allison's death

Hopefully, as the trial continues, prosecution will focus more on Allison's fight-back, her plans for the future, her determination to save her marriage and forge new career paths

 

[Total]

I think some of the marks were from GBC (Gerry) dragging her body either down the stairs and/or down under the bridge....using her jumper tied around his back (hence the marks on his body as identified in the reports).

 

[AAAA]

Nigel BC said in the witness box yesterday that when he asked GBC if there was anything he could do for him on that Friday while he was busy with the police GBC replied - He told 'Rob' he'd water his plants and vacuum the carpet for Saturday.
I take this 'Rob' to be a Rob Cheeseman , GBC's friend.

This would explain the vacuuming - doing it as a favour to a friend whose house you were trying to sell. I don't find that so unusual to be honest.

My understanding is that it was Mr Cheesemans car that Gerard crashed, have I got this wrong?

 

[royster]

Maybe prosecution are giving the depression aspect an airing nice and early and relying on the jury to work out that yes, someone with issues of depression caused initially by anti-malarial meds facing an ongoing affair between their husband and a staff member in addition to a collapsing business, potential loss of income, living in a rental, three young children, etc. would be depressed. That way, defence can't spring up with a surprise depression-suicide angle to explain Allison's death

Hopefully, as the trial continues, prosecution will focus more on Allison's fight-back, her plans for the future, her determination to save her marriage and forge new career paths

I think you may be spot on. That makes good sense. Feeling better about the last few days now - thanks laserdisc

 

[possumheart]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1099711/3D-tour-Baden-Clay-family-home.html

Hello all, long time lurker, first time poster…

Not sure how to post the link, but the Daily Mail (Australia) has a 3D tour of the BC house and still photos of the BC home posted…ready for sleuthing…I hope this is the right thread to post this information in, it is certainly the most current and active.

So impressed with the care and consideration all of the posters demonstrate in this forum

THANK YOU

 

[LadyBird1]

Apologies to wander off the current topic, but I haven't been able to post until now.

Re the discussion of the autopsy findings from Day 2, I just wanted to help clarify some questions that came up around the pathologist's testimony. (around here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246424&page=9)

The autopsy found heavy decomposition around the face and neck, which has several contributing factors: body position in moisture, the anatomy of the facial region (as explained by DrWatson) but also it's a sign that there could have been significant superficial and/or soft tissue injuries to that area. Since the skin is a protective covering, anywhere it is broken is going to see faster decomp and increased insect activity (eg the way flies are attracted to an uncovered cut or graze).

The pathologist raised this in his testimony:
-----------
Dr Milne said there could also be head injuries where insects or animals had eaten to the soft tissue skin.

He said insects were attracted to the face area so the soft tissue decomposition could be purely insect activity or the site of an injury.

Dr Milne said the soft tissue damage to the chin was atypical for insects.

"It's likely there was some sort of injury there," he said.

"That's an injury that could have occurred before death or after death."

http://www.qt.com.au/news/gerard-bad...apart/2285637/
-----------

and in the autopsy report:

"No definite injuries are identified. However, interpretation is significantly limited by changed of decomposition. In the previously described areas where there is significant soft tissue loss, particularly the facial region, forearms and left lower leg, such insect larval activity raises the possibility of pre-existing injuries at these sites. However post-mortem changes prevent this assessment." http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30810&d=1363404040

So there were signs that can point to significant soft tissue injuries in the face/head/neck area but it's impossible to be sure from the autopsy because too much tissue breakdown had occurred.

However the finding of blood in the car would also support this and has been raised by the prosecution (Crown Prosecutor Todd Fuller: "The blood in the car suggests Allison Baden-Clay had an injury of some sort at the time she was in the back of that vehicle." http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/gerard-baden-clay-pleads-not-guilty-murder/2284633/ )

A hair sample found stuck in the car bloodstains too, which would also point to head/facial trauma ( http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30815&d=1363404600).

I have been unable to address this up to now. I think that the two areas of soft tissue damage may have been precipitated by injuries before death. Injuries that broke the skin, and created a wound.

 

[Fuskier]

Apologies to wander off the current topic, but I haven't been able to post until now.

Re the discussion of the autopsy findings from Day 2, I just wanted to help clarify some questions that came up around the pathologist's testimony. (around here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246424&page=9)

<respectfully snipped>

So there were signs that can point to significant soft tissue injuries in the face/head/neck area but it's impossible to be sure from the autopsy because too much tissue breakdown had occurred.

However the finding of blood in the car would also support this and has been raised by the prosecution (Crown Prosecutor Todd Fuller: "The blood in the car suggests Allison Baden-Clay had an injury of some sort at the time she was in the back of that vehicle." http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/gerard-baden-clay-pleads-not-guilty-murder/2284633/ )

A hair sample found stuck in the car bloodstains too, which would also point to head/facial trauma ( http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30815&d=1363404600).

Thank you for this crucial re-focus Neuromancer.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It's not just that Neuromancer. If a real estate agent is looking after a place that is say rented, and there is a small problem, like say a light bulb needs fixing, then the real estate person makes a note, contacts the owner, says, what do you want to do, fix it yourself, or get our contract handyman, who can do the job. (It's called creating employment.) "Your call owner." Never have I met a Real Estate agent who does anything remotely like that. No matter how menial. To be actually vacuuming, or hosing, we'll, that would be something else again.

The real estate had no money/credit to recruit a handyman or "creating employment" in any form, I thought?

 

[LadyBird1]

The real estate had no money/credit to recruit a handyman or "creating employment" in any form, I thought?

THe real estate doesn't pay the handyman, the owner pays.