I agree Possumheart - OW knows the truth. I believe that her and her brother are as tight as. I sometimes think that her being in town could have been no coincidence - really nothing this family are possible of would shock me.
GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #1
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possumheart
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I agree with you Royster, I have often thought that it was not a coincidence that Olivia was in Brisbane at the time of Allison's death.
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Yep, it was always about him. I think the main thing that I can't reconcile the last few days is that Allison had seemed to mention her depression and anxiety to the staff. It seems to go against the " keep everything looking happy" mantra she seemed to hold onto. Do you think this was to explain herself to the staff who knew of her husbands infidelity? I am a bit lost with this info that has come out the last few days as it seems so different to the façade she kept up with others ( bless her). I don't know why I feel this is important but NBC saying she talked to EBC about it too, it just feels that something is being built up about it and many people are saying it. I just get a yuk feeling about it. Anyone feel the same?
Hey allThanks for the great trial reporting and thoughtful discussion so far.
Old poster from 2012 - been following ever since but finally got around to digging up my password to comment on a couple of things that are bugging me.
Does anyone else find it totally out of character that NBC would be heading off to vacuum someone else's house? I find it highly unlikely because of:
(a) personality - the arrogance and superiority displayed in the witness stand and elsewhere
(b) previous life as a Rhodesian ex-pat - in Southern Africa in that era, nearly everyone with even a modest income had servants. Heck, my cheap little bed-sit in Jo'burg in the 1980s came with a regular maid service included in the rent.
I'd be surprised if he knew how to turn a vacuum on!
Real Bwanas don't Hoover!
And stunned (but I guess not that surprised) by some of NBCs statements in the witness stand that contradict so many things previously independently verified. Knew of no problems in the marriage? Only helped in the business putting up signs? Had no idea of the finances of the business, despite investments made/loans given? *boggle*
Looking forward to some more detailed questioning on Monday...
Great post Neuromancer. One small matter ...... what real estate agent in Queensland does any cleaning or maintenance type work?
I get the feeling we are being given a different
insight into Allison life. I can't understand why the prosecution is highlighting the depression angle. It seems to me to be counter productive to a guilty verdict. I am just a pleb though no great legal mind leave that to my son.
Champagne4lulu
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Apologies if this has already been posted, but pics of home and video
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...amily-home-four-days-Allison-disappeared.html
It's a bit eerie and sad.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...amily-home-four-days-Allison-disappeared.html
It's a bit eerie and sad.
Suitcases on the bed? Why?
possumheart
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Allison was getting into 'Pathways' in a professional sense, which is all about talking about depression and anxiety. Why SHOULDN't she have talked about it?
Not as 'safe as houses'?
Hey spratsmum! No legal mind myself either - I agree it does seem counter productive.
I just feel that the depression angle is being really honed in on - really the lady had every right financially and emotionally to be depressed. I can't help but feel that they need to address that she was depressed due to her circumstances with him. It seems to be going in his favour and negating the affair by in my opinion portraying Allison as a very depressed person on the couch and not capable of daily activities ( driving to camp ect). I really hope that the next few week's bring a different slant as people that haven't followed this case as closely as us are already starting to say that she wasn't right ect. This jury better hear some home truths soon I think!!!
Neuromancer
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Apologies to wander off the current topic, but I haven't been able to post until now.
Re the discussion of the autopsy findings from Day 2, I just wanted to help clarify some questions that came up around the pathologist's testimony. (around here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246424&page=9)
The autopsy found heavy decomposition around the face and neck, which has several contributing factors: body position in moisture, the anatomy of the facial region (as explained by DrWatson) but also it's a sign that there could have been significant superficial and/or soft tissue injuries to that area. Since the skin is a protective covering, anywhere it is broken is going to see faster decomp and increased insect activity (eg the way flies are attracted to an uncovered cut or graze).
The pathologist raised this in his testimony:
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Dr Milne said there could also be head injuries where insects or animals had eaten to the soft tissue skin.
He said insects were attracted to the face area so the soft tissue decomposition could be purely insect activity or the site of an injury.
Dr Milne said the soft tissue damage to the chin was atypical for insects.
"It's likely there was some sort of injury there," he said.
"That's an injury that could have occurred before death or after death."
http://www.qt.com.au/news/gerard-bad...apart/2285637/
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and in the autopsy report:
"No definite injuries are identified. However, interpretation is significantly limited by changed of decomposition. In the previously described areas where there is significant soft tissue loss, particularly the facial region, forearms and left lower leg, such insect larval activity raises the possibility of pre-existing injuries at these sites. However post-mortem changes prevent this assessment." http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30810&d=1363404040
So there were signs that can point to significant soft tissue injuries in the face/head/neck area but it's impossible to be sure from the autopsy because too much tissue breakdown had occurred.
However the finding of blood in the car would also support this and has been raised by the prosecution (Crown Prosecutor Todd Fuller: "The blood in the car suggests Allison Baden-Clay had an injury of some sort at the time she was in the back of that vehicle." http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/gerard-baden-clay-pleads-not-guilty-murder/2284633/ )
A hair sample found stuck in the car bloodstains too, which would also point to head/facial trauma ( http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30815&d=1363404600).
Re the discussion of the autopsy findings from Day 2, I just wanted to help clarify some questions that came up around the pathologist's testimony. (around here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246424&page=9)
The autopsy found heavy decomposition around the face and neck, which has several contributing factors: body position in moisture, the anatomy of the facial region (as explained by DrWatson) but also it's a sign that there could have been significant superficial and/or soft tissue injuries to that area. Since the skin is a protective covering, anywhere it is broken is going to see faster decomp and increased insect activity (eg the way flies are attracted to an uncovered cut or graze).
The pathologist raised this in his testimony:
-----------
Dr Milne said there could also be head injuries where insects or animals had eaten to the soft tissue skin.
He said insects were attracted to the face area so the soft tissue decomposition could be purely insect activity or the site of an injury.
Dr Milne said the soft tissue damage to the chin was atypical for insects.
"It's likely there was some sort of injury there," he said.
"That's an injury that could have occurred before death or after death."
http://www.qt.com.au/news/gerard-bad...apart/2285637/
-----------
and in the autopsy report:
"No definite injuries are identified. However, interpretation is significantly limited by changed of decomposition. In the previously described areas where there is significant soft tissue loss, particularly the facial region, forearms and left lower leg, such insect larval activity raises the possibility of pre-existing injuries at these sites. However post-mortem changes prevent this assessment." http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30810&d=1363404040
So there were signs that can point to significant soft tissue injuries in the face/head/neck area but it's impossible to be sure from the autopsy because too much tissue breakdown had occurred.
However the finding of blood in the car would also support this and has been raised by the prosecution (Crown Prosecutor Todd Fuller: "The blood in the car suggests Allison Baden-Clay had an injury of some sort at the time she was in the back of that vehicle." http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/gerard-baden-clay-pleads-not-guilty-murder/2284633/ )
A hair sample found stuck in the car bloodstains too, which would also point to head/facial trauma ( http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30815&d=1363404600).
I don't think the information the girls gave should be disregarded. On the contrary. However I do think it would be wise to keep in the back of our minds that these girls may have been coaxed. From sometime after 06.30am to say 08.30am. This coaxing might have been as simple as "remember now, mummy and daddy are happy, always happy. Mummy walks in the morning. Etc" Added to this is their possible fear of retribution should they say something or anything out of place.
D
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Yes, horse straps/leash or something like that. Immediately I thought of slightly wider straps ..... re GBC's abrasions on chest/shoulder/neck ..... seemed to be important for me.
possumheart
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The strand of hair is mentioned in the Forensic Procedure Order which Mr. Google can show you.
Absolutely no reason at all that she shouldn't have talked about it. But in my opinion I don't believe she would of confided in these people.... unless she was trying to justify herself knowing full well she would have been the fodder for gossip in that office. Very toxic place I think. Can't imagine even getting an email from my boss saying he had had an affair and his wife found out so now so and so is not coming back. Sounds like a redneck business on all counts to me. Nothing was handled professionally by the sounds of things. I just ponder why Allison would feel she needed to tell those staff about her depression and anxiety?
Neuromancer
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Lol yes Ladybird I wondered that too. Usually they have contract cleaners and bill the departing owners/tenants don't they?
Even if they were taking drastic budget measures and going DYI, I'd imagine some poor office minion being sent to do it, not the mighty Bwana
Snails
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I think the BC's were the ones with the façade i.e " keep everything looking happy" and Allison was pressured to keep up the façade. But she was open and honest with her friends and colleagues unlike others close to her i.e. the BWANA clan.
Even assuming that he did the deed, I doubt, having met the man, that he had the kahunas to go back and move her.
possumheart
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And at 9:34am GERard googled 'Psychiatrists Brisbane West'.
:sigh:
:drumroll:
:sigh:
:drumroll:
laserdisc10
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What a shame he didn't do that years earlier, huh?
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