GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #1

[Couldbe]

Trooper, Nige changed his name before he married Elaine in 1969. All offspring are Baden-Clay.
I doubt any of them will be knocking at any Pearly gates (except perhaps Adam)

Probably enough about name-changing, but just to CLARIFY:
....so it was Nigel CLAY (Clay being the surname of his own Father) who changed his christened name to BADEN-CLAY
.... obviously to CREATE his presentation to the Public that he is connected to ROBERT BADEN-POWELL - the Founder of the Scouting Movement
- (who was Nigel's Grandfather).

 

[possumheart]

Interestingly, the Courier-Mail led with the vacuum/hose element in overnight news, obviously deeming it the most explosive and damning of yesterday's revelations. To me, though, it seems almost TOO obvious (as in, surely Gerard wouldn't be that dumb to basically create the scene wherein his father carries away damning evidence right in front of police officers). Given that he had already been out in the Captiva "searching" for Allison, he had already had time to dispose of vacuums, hoses and mobile phones. I just think this might be one of those elements that looks extremely suss but might be quite innocuous. Not sure.

Speaking of the Captiva, I was reminded this morning about Const Ash's initial observation that Gerard had clearly had to reverse park the Captiva around the back of the Prado after his morning search. I had completely forgotten how ludicrous this is. WHY DIDN'T HE TAKE THE CAR IN FRONT, which was HIS car after all? This as much as the scratches must have been ringing all of Ash's bells.

Because he had already readjusted the steering wheel and seat on the night before and thought he was outsmarting them?

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

In the forensic evidence there is reported traces of Zoloft and Alcohol, but there is no mention of wine at the hairdressers or at dinner? Could this suggest ABC drank after GBC went to bed? ABC met with someone else and drank? Prosecution will adduce a reasonable explanation of the traces of alcohol to head that off no doubt. .

Hi BigT. Dr Milne said that some or all of the alcohol may have been produced after death.

"He said there was a 0.095% blood alcohol concentration but that did not mean Allison had alcohol in her blood at death.
Dr Milne said once putrefaction occurred, the bacteria in the body fermented and produced alcohol".

http://m.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/gerard-baden-clays-wife-lover-apart/2285637/

 

[possumheart]

In the forensic evidence there is reported traces of Zoloft and Alcohol, but there is no mention of wine at the hairdressers or at dinner? Could this suggest ABC drank after GBC went to bed? ABC met with someone else and drank? Prosecution will adduce a reasonable explanation of the traces of alcohol to head that off no doubt.

Respectfully snipped Big T.
I think if you read further you will see that the alcohol traces are because of the chemical processes involved in decomposition, and mean nothing at all. It is mentioned in at least one news report, but I am not in a position to look it up for you at the moment.

(Thanks, redlighthroughpaper)

 

[Radster]

In the forensic evidence there is reported traces of Zoloft and Alcohol, but there is no mention of wine at the hairdressers or at dinner? Could this suggest ABC drank after GBC went to bed? ABC met with someone else and drank? Prosecution will adduce a reasonable explanation of the traces of alcohol to head that off no doubt.

In bail hearing it was adduced by defence that ABC iphone accessed the internet at around 6.30AM, Friday 20th, and remained connected for 13 hours. The access was at fig tree pocket tower and the assertion was she was somewhere at that time without GBC knowledge. (Could GBC using the find my iPhone app, have triggered the connection to internet on the ABC phone?)

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-denied-bail-20121214-2beo5.html

Hypothetically, GBC and ABC have a fight, kids don't hear it. Both get injuries and ABC ends up outside in the bushes. Close neighbours hear it. ABC puts on her walking clothes and is off on foot towards Kenmore, but without a lot of yelling and screaming.

Although this hypothetical allows a conclusion that ABC meets foul play or commits suicide unbeknownst to GBC, it also allows a conclusion that GBC follows her in a car, and the fight continues towards Kenmore. (Remember the roundabout interest at some very specific times? Searching the industrial bins may have been for ABC phone?)

(Hopefully GBC iphone's "internal" database will put him on Kholo Bridge and a conclusion can be drawn without any doubt that he left the house)

The noises heard by neighbours at distance away from BC house (Kenmore etc) should not be discounted until all the evidence is heard.

6.30am would have been around the time GBC was out "searching" for Allison. He uses her phone one last time to connect to the Internet (knowing this would be traceable) and then dumps it (probably in the river). Other sleuthers have suggested this before and it seems plausible to me. Thoughts?

 

[BigT]

Thank you, sounds reasonable, anti depressant and alcohol never sounds good. I seem to remember something about a car wash, and a suggestion someone was at a bus stop early in the piece as well.

The trump card might come in the form of a number of seemingly unrelated observations....

 

[Couldbe]

6.30am would have been around the time GBC was out "searching" for Allison. He uses her phone one last time to connect to the Internet (knowing this would be traceable) and then dumps it (probably in the river). Other sleuthers have suggested this before and it seems plausible to me. Thoughts?

There was so much new to us information coming thick and fast via children's interviews, etc ...... but I think one of the children, said at some point, that GBC had taken them with him 'to go out and have a look for their Mother.......
and when asked the question about being home by themselves - by the Child Protection Interviewer .... they replied that they were never home by themselves, on the morning that ABC was reported missing.

My inference is that GBC took the children down into the garden / they looked at the back of the house / when GBC tossed ABC's phone into the property behind them (of course without the children seeing him do that).

 

[wewillgetyou]

One quite disturbing thing from the court yesterday, and it had nothing to do with the trial, questioning etc, was the poor taste of some of the public gallery pretending to be part of the Dickie family, as a close friend, so they could get to seats first. And once again we have public members being shirty that they cant get seats etc.

Fair go. Think of the families and not your own selfish means.

We later found out that the person pretending to be associated the Dickie family was actually associated with the BCs.

So now the family has to play door ***** as well as try to deal with a murder trial.

Cheers.

WHAT. !!!

I was there and don't recall hearing this ?

I was lucky and got a seat because I lined up early each time. The only person I saw enter early was a well known reporter but she had been speaking with the Dickie side so I don't have a problem with that. She was obviously working on a story.

I objected to the pushing a shoving of people who had not been waiting very long at all and by those who assumed an automatic right to get a seat.

Like I said before if you want to get in, get there early and lineup at the door.

I have to say I find it totally ridiculous the way the public gallery works. I also can't believe the media need to jostle with the family and the average person. They should have their own seating.

 

[coolcat]

Interestingly, the Courier-Mail led with the vacuum/hose element in overnight news, obviously deeming it the most explosive and damning of yesterday's revelations. To me, though, it seems almost TOO obvious (as in, surely Gerard wouldn't be that dumb to basically create the scene wherein his father carries away damning evidence right in front of police officers). Given that he had already been out in the Captiva "searching" for Allison, he had already had time to dispose of vacuums, hoses and mobile phones. I just think this might be one of those elements that looks extremely suss but might be quite innocuous. Not sure.

Speaking of the Captiva, I was reminded this morning about Const Ash's initial observation that Gerard had clearly had to reverse park the Captiva around the back of the Prado after his morning search. I had completely forgotten how ludicrous this is. WHY DIDN'T HE TAKE THE CAR IN FRONT, which was HIS car after all? This as much as the scratches must have been ringing all of Ash's bells.

Not to mention the search of Allison's car and the finding of what I think was a staged empty packet of anti depressants??

 

[marlywings]

6.30am would have been around the time GBC was out "searching" for Allison. He uses her phone one last time to connect to the Internet (knowing this would be traceable) and then dumps it (probably in the river). Other sleuthers have suggested this before and it seems plausible to me. Thoughts?

I think he'd tossed it at first then possibly either him or someone else retrieved it later on.

Text copied from Kellie Thomson's statement.

At "24 & 25" ,which I've bolded, is about where he may have needed new ummm undies...lol.

23. At or about 1.09pm, I approached the defendant as he returned back to 593 Brookfield Road, Broofield and I asked the defendant if I could use his mobile phone again so I could try and locate Allison Baden-Clay's phone again using the application called find my friends. At this time, it took a good 10seconds where the application was searching and upon completion of the search. The defendant was standing beside me and I told the defendant that the phone was still searching. I then observed a blue dot on the screen whe it indicated Allison's mobile phone was. I then said to the defendant, "Oh it come up"

24. The defendant didn't say much, it may have been, "Oh that's good".

25. I said, "It looks like it's only about 150 metres behind your property".

26. The defendant did not make any reply. When I zoomed in on the screen it showed that Allison's phone was in the rear of 61 Boscombe Road, Brookfield. I then thanked the defendant and I handed his mobile phone back to him. As a result of the phone search for Allison's phone I then walked outside and I had a conversation with Senior Sgt Narelle CURTIS and I told her certain things.

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[marlywings]

WHAT. !!!

I was there and don't recall hearing this ?

I was lucky and got a seat because I lined up early each time. The only person I saw enter early was a well known reporter but she had been speaking with the Dickie side so I don't have a problem with that. She was obviously working on a story.

I objected to the pushing a shoving of people who had not been waiting very long at all and by those who assumed an automatic right to get a seat.

Like I said before if you want to get in, get there early and lineup at the door.

I have to say I find it totally ridiculous the way the public gallery works. I also can't believe the media need to jostle with the family and the average person. They should have their own seating.

Shocking & so darn rude isn't it.... all the pushing & shoving as though they're waiting at the doors of Aldi when there's a big special on.

For the larger trials in US, the public has to line up for a ticket to get in.

 

[Oberammergau]

I will bet this is the first time many of us have looked forward to MONDAY!!!
All is eerily qiuet at <modsnip>!!!

 

[Thinking]

I agree 100% with all you've said. It was all about her, TM & what she wanted.

From some of TM's statements....she, she, she, TM was jealous of Allison!!


She can get her own place.
She doesn't need to know.
"Im sick of hiding … Im sick of being second best and having to take the back seat … all so she doesn't find out," the email read.
"She gave you an ultimatum and you honoured it???

Sadly this is also the impression I got from her at the committal, when I saw her on the stand for quite some time. It was all about her and how it affected her and what she wanted, and fear for her and GBCs future - not once did I see genuine sadness that Allison had died and the children were left without their mother, not one shred of empathy for Allison.

 

[Fuskier]

We always guessed nig went to help that night, he was there minding the children while GeRed took Allison somewhere. My point is what time was it and did Allison come back?
I don't believe it ended with an innocent chat over a coffee. MOO

No poss this doesn't wash with me. My hinky reads overload.

Hypothetically, was going for coffee on the 18th some kind of trial run?
If GBC had asked ABC to go with him for coffee, no doubt she would have jumped at it IMO. You know, on the premise of the 15 min talks and trying to repair the marriage, etc.
So, could it have been a disguised 'trial run' of taking Allison somewhere and his parents minding the children? This is not beyond the realm of possibility. My opinion only.

 

[Oberammergau]

Sadly this is also the impression I got from her at the committal, when I saw her on the stand for quite some time. It was all about her and how it affected her and what she wanted, and fear for her and GBCs future - not once did I see genuine sadness that Allison had died and the children were left without their mother, not one shred of empathy for Allison.

Exactly!!

 

[toe]

Absolutely agree Humdinger! Police know darn well how much evidence is required, even though it may be all classed as circumstantial.

In backpacker murderer case, Ivan Milat, ALL the evidence was also classed as circumstantial.

It took ONLY two months for GBC to be arrested....some cases take years. This tells me police have the trump card on GBC.

We can't just go by the evidence that's known to us from bail/committal hearings. In my opinion, that is only a fraction of the total. There will be loads more to come!!

I totally agree, wait until they get TM in the box, that's when the cheering will begin.:jail:

 

[Radster]

I think he'd tossed it at first then possibly either him or someone else retrieved it later on.

Text copied from Kellie Thomson's statement.

At "24 & 25" ,which I've bolded, is about where he may have needed new ummm undies...lol.

23. At or about 1.09pm, I approached the defendant as he returned back to 593 Brookfield Road, Broofield and I asked the defendant if I could use his mobile phone again so I could try and locate Allison Baden-Clay's phone again using the application called find my friends. At this time, it took a good 10seconds where the application was searching and upon completion of the search. The defendant was standing beside me and I told the defendant that the phone was still searching. I then observed a blue dot on the screen whe it indicated Allison's mobile phone was. I then said to the defendant, "Oh it come up"

24. The defendant didn't say much, it may have been, "Oh that's good".

25. I said, "It looks like it's only about 150 metres behind your property".

26. The defendant did not make any reply. When I zoomed in on the screen it showed that Allison's phone was in the rear of 61 Boscombe Road, Brookfield. I then thanked the defendant and I handed his mobile phone back to him. As a result of the phone search for Allison's phone I then walked outside and I had a conversation with Senior Sgt Narelle CURTIS and I told her certain things.

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Thanks Marly! I had not read this before. Wow.

 

[L_B]

Just browsing some older threads and looking at GBCs phone records.

On the 19th seems like he sent a fair few group text messages:

1944 Text to 0400888300 from Brookfield
1946 Text to 0412554274- Jody M from Brookfield
1946 Text to 0439707222 from Brookfield
1946 Text to 0401149013-Allison from Brookfield
1946 Text to 0430413877-Kate R from Brookfield
1946 Text to 0400466100-Nigel from Brookfield
1946 Text to 0430844963 from Brookfield
2022 Text to 0412554274- Jody M from Brookfield
2022 Text to 0439707222 from Brookfield
2022 Text to 0401149013 from Brookfield
2022 Text to 0400888300 from Brookfield
2022 Text to 0430413877-Kate R from Brookfield
2022 Text to 0400466100-Nigel from Brookfield
2022 Text to 0430844963 from Brookfield
2023 Text to 0412554274- Jody M from Brookfield
2023 Text to 043970722 from Brookfield
2023 Text to 041149013 from Brookfield
2023 Text to 0400888300 from Brookfield
2023 Text to 0430413877 from Brookfield
2023 Text to 0400466100-Nigel from Brookfield
2023 Text to 0430844963 from Brookfield

Wonder what he was mass-txing about?

 

[DunnoZo]

Two things I keep thinking about that one of the little girls said..
1. Straps and ropes in the boot of the car,
2. That Allison wore LEGGINGS when she walked. My kids definitely know what I wear to walk.
imo

 

[Groundedgirl]

Two things I keep thinking about that one of the little girls said..
1. Straps and ropes in the boot of the car,
2. That Allison wore LEGGINGS when she walked. My kids definitely know what I wear to walk.
imo

Just on that second point too - when I walked early every morning I saw the same people going about their day everyday at that time. People knew me who lived on the route I walked as we'd wave when I passed or those in cars sounded horns. Neighbours know better than anyone if people have exercise routines - there is no evidence of this. Although most people I came across were strangers, they knew I walked at that time every morning.