General Discussion #7

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

We saw Raven right after we entered the rear entrance of the church in Buena Vista. I didn't know him but some of the people in my group recognized him and whispered to the others of us that he was Janet's husband. He came out of the viewing room where Janet was laid out, took a deep breath, closed his eyes, let out a very heavy sigh, and grimaced like he was trying to maintain composure. After the funeral, several of us commented on that 'display', and how fake it seemed, like he knew that he should show some emotion, but wasn't sure what to do. And I thought it was odd that he was completely alone, with nobody talking with him, comforting him, supporting him as he said a final goodbye to his wife in the viewing room. He stood outside the viewing room for a minute or so, and then moved on down the hall.

This makes me feel ill.

 

[LTUlegal]

This makes me feel ill.

Well, it does me, too, but I suppose we need to remember that everyone grieves differently...isn't that what Scott Peterson said? (Perhaps while he was squeezing tears out in front of Diane Sawyer?):snooty:

 

[JustJax]

I don't think a narcissist knows how to grieve...only try to act like they are. In their small minds they think they have everyone else fooled.:sick:

 

[LTUlegal]

I don't think a narcissist knows how to grieve...only try to act like they are. In their small minds they think they have everyone else fooled.:sick:

Yeah, well, look how many people were fooled by sp....maybe um...himself?! LOL!

 

[ewwwinteresting]

We saw Raven right after we entered the rear entrance of the church in Buena Vista. I didn't know him but some of the people in my group recognized him and whispered to the others of us that he was Janet's husband. He came out of the viewing room where Janet was laid out, took a deep breath, closed his eyes, let out a very heavy sigh, and grimaced like he was trying to maintain composure. After the funeral, several of us commented on that 'display', and how fake it seemed, like he knew that he should show some emotion, but wasn't sure what to do. And I thought it was odd that he was completely alone, with nobody talking with him, comforting him, supporting him as he said a final goodbye to his wife in the viewing room. He stood outside the viewing room for a minute or so, and then moved on down the hall. That's the last I saw of him close-up. We sat in the rear of the church during the service and I only saw the back of his head after that. I remember that he held Kaiden for most of the service.

Thanks for posting this SK and welcome to the board!

It is amazing how many people have come forward to comment on raven's lack of grieving or fake grieving at the funeral/memorial service compared to how many have come on to say the opposite. What? we only have rooster's comment....Fact - He grieved appropriately It is interesting to me that NO ONE else has defended his actions as being appropriate, in their opinion. I'm guessing the family and friends were also wondering wth was going on with his behavior?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I'm guessing the family and friends were also wondering wth was going on with his behavior?

Maybe they wanted to be as far away from him as possible so that they could claim that they didn't see him react inappropriately, thereby being able to believe in his innocence. Then again, some of the siblings didn't even attend, right? That seems like such a tremendous lack of support. Unless there's some major underlying reason of which we are unaware for why siblings didn't attend their young brother's murdered wife's funeral, then there are dynamics in that family that I just can't understand.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I agree with Slinky that Raven's behavior at the funeral seemed fake. I can't put a finger on what struck me as odd, but he seemed to have an air of "whatever". I think that everyone there had been told that police thought he did it. Perhaps that twisted my opinion of his behavior, but he sure seemed fake. He did look me in the eyes and I could tell that he didn't even remember who I was. I was actually glad about that. When he looked me in the eyes it seemed like puzzlement trying to figure out why I was there. Did he know that everyone was watching him?

 

[terminatrixator]

Everyone is still watching him, his friends, his family, his coworkers, his buddies, and they will continue to watch him, and mistrust him and with good reason.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Do you ever wish that you could be a fly on the wall, following him around and observing him? I do.

 

[Jenifred]

Then again, some of the siblings didn't even attend, right? That seems like such a tremendous lack of support. Unless there's some major underlying reason of which we are unaware for why siblings didn't attend their young brother's murdered wife's funeral, then there are dynamics in that family that I just can't understand.

Let's think about why siblings didn't go....
Shiloh--probably didn't have the money (you know, panhandling only raises so much or maybe it was the drugs she was selling didn't catch a high enough price.)

Derek (Derique, however he's spelling it these days)--probably too poor, drunk, high to even realize what was going on. You had to be under the influence to think that the song he wrote in Janet's memory was a fitting memorial.

Jacob--again no cash flow. Maybe he's still in hiding from his internet baseball scam. I'm sure that maybe his wife might have enjoyed to be there and pay her respects.

The Bolton sibilings? Who knows, since they don't live their lives on the internet I don't have much to say about them.

 

[terminatrixator]

Do you ever wish that you could be a fly on the wall, following him around and observing him? I do.

roflmao...........yeah that is a thought.

 

[terminatrixator]

Let's think about why siblings didn't go....
Shiloh--probably didn't have the money (you know, panhandling only raises so much or maybe it was the drugs she was selling didn't catch a high enough price.)

Derek (Derique, however he's spelling it these days)--probably too poor, drunk, high to even realize what was going on. You had to be under the influence to think that the song he wrote in Janet's memory was a fitting memorial.

Jacob--again no cash flow. Maybe he's still in hiding from his internet baseball scam. I'm sure that maybe his wife might have enjoyed to be there and pay her respects.

The Bolton sibilings? Who knows, since they don't live their lives on the internet I don't have much to say about them.

:doh: Yeah I think you pegged it JG.

 

[lauriej]

I agree with Slinky that Raven's behavior at the funeral seemed fake. I can't put a finger on what struck me as odd, but he seemed to have an air of "whatever". I think that everyone there had been told that police thought he did it. Perhaps that twisted my opinion of his behavior, but he sure seemed fake. He did look me in the eyes and I could tell that he didn't even remember who I was. I was actually glad about that. When he looked me in the eyes it seemed like puzzlement trying to figure out why I was there. Did he know that everyone was watching him?

..i can't imagine how you sat through the service, while raven was " putting on his (fake) show--------ughhh--------------------------my sincere condolences to you in the loss of your friend...

..however--------i love it that "everyone there had been told that "he did it"------------being the pompous big shot ( that he perceives himself to be ) he'll surely 'slip up' sometime soon, and "everyone" will be watching for that.......

.."fakers--------------they can never be "real" for long"................

 

[Thinkoflaura]

My gosh,
Is the entire family a bunch of gypsies, tramps, theives and pimps?
I knew his mother was not above larceny, but his sibs are druggies who also sell?
Is Shiloh ( whose name probably is Mary or something) pimping herself on that MySpace site?

I remember the photos of Janet out in Utah with Kaiden. Was Janet like this once she married the bird? I wouldn't have set foot in their house, because association with criminal elements is not too good a thing, know what I mean?
How could she absolutely not have known what Raven was doing with what we know he did wrong, the cheating with other women and the thefts from Eurosport? I am not dissing the dead, but I had no clue that Raven's entire family was as screwed up as he is.

How could Janet not have known? If she did, why did she marry him? Stay with him and have his baby? I feel so sick after reading this.
I've been with the case since the beginning, and said that the siblings were changing their names to hide from something ( it's on like thread one or two in the General Discussions) but I had no clue that it would turn out to be this horribly right.

Let's think about why siblings didn't go....
Shiloh--probably didn't have the money (you know, panhandling only raises so much or maybe it was the drugs she was selling didn't catch a high enough price.)

Derek (Derique, however he's spelling it these days)--probably too poor, drunk, high to even realize what was going on. You had to be under the influence to think that the song he wrote in Janet's memory was a fitting memorial.

Jacob--again no cash flow. Maybe he's still in hiding from his internet baseball scam. I'm sure that maybe his wife might have enjoyed to be there and pay her respects.

The Bolton sibilings? Who knows, since they don't live their lives on the internet I don't have much to say about them.

 

[lauriej]

My gosh,
Is the entire family a bunch of gypsies, tramps, theives and pimps?
I knew his mother was not above larceny, but his sibs are druggies who also sell?
Is Shiloh ( whose name probably is Mary or something) pimping herself on that MySpace site?

I remember the photos of Janet out in Utah with Kaiden. Was Janet like this once she married the bird? I wouldn't have set foot in their house, because association with criminal elements is not too good a thing, know what I mean?
How could she absolutely not have known what Raven was doing with what we know he did wrong, the cheating with other women and the thefts from Eurosport? I am not dissing the dead, but I had no clue that Raven's entire family was as screwed up as he is.

How could Janet not have known? If she did, why did she marry him? Stay with him and have his baby? I feel so sick after reading this.
I've been with the case since the beginning, and said that the siblings were changing their names to hide from something ( it's on like thread one or two in the General Discussions) but I had no clue that it would turn out to be this horribly right.

..you're right............i can't remember, i'm sure jersey can, but "shiloh" did have an alternate name on classmates.........

..even if HIS family was/is "SNAFU"..i can totally see that janet would have no awareness of it at the time..........sure we know things NOW that we didn't know THEN.............

..i do think that to go back to "thread one...thread two..etc" would be beneficial at this time----------there was some good info coming in fast and furious "back then".........

..bottom line : it's now march 2005, practically a year since janet's brutal murder------(and the 'not random killer'-'the thief who was having affairs''the guy who shed crocodile tears at the funeral')--------ok fine, RAVEN--gets to be hiking and biking out in utah..........while her family is planning to lay flowers on the anniversary date.............

..what are your plans for april raven ? revving up those fake tears ? watching your back every moment in case LE shows up with a warrant ? ( and you know they're close--------they WILL--)sleep tight.

 

[terminatrixator]

My gosh,
Is the entire family a bunch of gypsies, tramps, theives and pimps?
I knew his mother was not above larceny, but his sibs are druggies who also sell?
Is Shiloh ( whose name probably is Mary or something) pimping herself on that MySpace site?

I remember the photos of Janet out in Utah with Kaiden. Was Janet like this once she married the bird? I wouldn't have set foot in their house, because association with criminal elements is not too good a thing, know what I mean?
How could she absolutely not have known what Raven was doing with what we know he did wrong, the cheating with other women and the thefts from Eurosport? I am not dissing the dead, but I had no clue that Raven's entire family was as screwed up as he is.

How could Janet not have known? If she did, why did she marry him? Stay with him and have his baby? I feel so sick after reading this.
I've been with the case since the beginning, and said that the siblings were changing their names to hide from something ( it's on like thread one or two in the General Discussions) but I had no clue that it would turn out to be this horribly right.

There was barely contact between Janet Marie Christiansen and her inlaws. You marry the man, but you don't marry the inlaws, many people have colorful people in their extended family and as inlaws.

Janet met Raven, a clean-cut, athletic, charismatic person, she married him in August 2000. If we all take into account that he is a sociopath, he is charming, he is everything a girl can hope for in a man, ambition, he claimed to be ambitious and she Loved him.

After marriage is when the real true Raven seemed to come out. Let's look at the timeline again below:
-----
August, 2000 - 04: Janet and Raven Abaroa married

November 2000
11: Janet and Raven and their dog Shanuk take a trip to Lost River National Park in West Virginia

December, 2000
??: Janet obtains her Associate's Degree and takes a year off from college to spend time with Raven

February 2001
19: Janet and Raven took a vacation to Orlando, FL

May, 2001
08: Raven's wallet was stolen. It contained $35, his driver's license and credit cards

January, 2004
??: Rumors from an anonymous source indicate Raven was unfaithful to Janet and the couple were in the process of separating,

February and April, 2004 Janet discovers she is pregnant - Raven and Janet reconcile
-------------

03/18/2004, 09:22 AM

NC_VX

I'm in, arriving Friday day with a tent for two and my dog. I'll be staying through Sunday.

Attending:
me and a guest
Dog

Look forward to seeing you all there!
__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina
-----
​

Okay so they were married in August of 2000. The Affair started somewhere before or around January 2004 - AFTER 4 YEARS of Marriage.

I would believe that the affair had been going on for a while before Janet found out. When she found out they then separated, but BEFORE Janet found out, I would assume they were as a Married couple, and acted like a Married couple, so of course there is a chance of becoming Pregnant.

She found out about the affair and they separated and THEN Janet found out - OMG - She's Pregnant with HER HUSBAND, the cheating Raven, and he's now living with another broad.

All I can think here is the emotional pain she had to have been dealing with at this time. It brings me to tears and pisses me off so so bad.

I wonder how much of this she held on to herself, out of so much hurt and for some reason many women get embarrassed that their husbands could do this to them. Now she's Pregnant and what should have been such a joyous occasion in a young married woman's life is now marred with so much anxiety about her babies future and her future.

Looking at that Wheel mentioned in another section one word does stand out ISOLATION. I bet she held so much to herself at this time.

Janet HAD to have figured out she was pregnant AFTER she found out about the affair somewhere at the END of January beginning of February and she held off on telling Raven because of her fear of telling him she was Pregnant because they were broken up and the creep was already LIVING WITH ANOTHER BROAD. We know that Janet HAD to know she was Pregnant for sure in February before before March.

The Above mentioned "Guest" would NOT have been Janet, Janet was going through a situation where, her husband was a cheater, living with some other broad, and she's Pregnant, this still ticks me off to no end, but it happens, and I'm sure Raven did a lot of grovelling, to do the right thing, and to grow the **** up from people close to him.

In APRIL he writes:

04/16/2004, 07:47 AM
NC_VX

Guys, it looks like we're all on our own for this weekend. Its probably better, I am moving the end of htis month and getting preasure from friends and family that I am shirking my responsibilities for entertainment.... NO, not me!!!!

....snip because of the stupidity of it.

Catch ya'll later!
__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina
​

We now have to believe by April he knows he's going to be a father, him and Janet eventually or have already gotten back together around this time. He got pressure to "DO THE RIGHT THING" from friends and maybe some family members.

Affairs happen, I'm sure Raven did some MAJOR sucking up to get back into Janet's life when he realized ONCE AGAIN he looks like a complete and UTTER failure. We have Janet Pregnant, and she did love Raven and took her marriage vows seriously and decided to make this work, so her child would have a FATHER in his/her life.

October 17, 2004, Kaiden is Born. We all saw the Videos of Janet going to the hospital to have the baby and the after in the Memorial video.

He gets back with Janet sometime in April and within 3 months - July he starts EMBEZZLING FUNDS! Guess the growing up and stop shirking responsibilities means to STEAL.

Janet is pregnant at this time that he is embezzling Money. Janet has way too much going on and there is NO DOCUMENTATION, NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER, that JANET MARIE had any knowledge whatsoever of the Embezzlement.

Raven was FIRED. Janet was NOT FIRED. Janet left because of another set of HUMILIATION and EMBARRASSMENT, handed down to her because of Raven.

Back to timeline:

July, 2004
01: Raven allegedly begins embezzling funds from his employer, Eurosport

September, 2004
01: Raven allegedly embezzles more funds from his employer, Eurosport

October, 2004
01: Raven allegedly embezzles more funds from his employer, Eurosport
17: Kaiden is born

November, 2004
01: Raven allegedly embezzles more funds from his employer, Eurosport

December, 2004
01: Raven allegedly embezzles more funds from his employer, Eurosport

January, 2005
??: Raven fired for allegations of embezzlement from his former employer, Eurosport in Hillsborough.

??: Janet resigned from her accounting position at Eurosport.

February, 2005
02: Raven Abaroa was charged with 5 counts of embezzling thousands of dollars from Eurosport, according to court documents.

April, 2005
22: Landlord said Janet and Raven just signed the forms for the change in rent. Landlord gave the previous two months free due to unemployment.
It is believed that their churched raised enough funds to pay for their April rent. May rent would've been back to normal before their unemployment.

25: Raven makes an entry to his blog on his website about overcoming trying times in his life and plans to start anew (my interpretation)

Somewhere in January 2005 Janet finds out that Raven has been fired for embezzlment. Nobody here knows what was told to Janet about this embezzlement, She knew about it AFTER he was fired, and he was arrested by police.

We have no clue WHAT Raven told Janet regarding the embezzlements. He could have said he was framed, I didn't embezzle, I did it for us, whatever excuse this freak used.

Now Janet has a 6 month old Child, Kaiden and now she has to deal with the impending Trial of HER HUSBAND, and she finds out - She's pregnant again.

The amount of pain this woman has suffered because of her husband and his devious, disgusting ways is appalling in itself.

We have had heard rumors of an affair again somewhere in this time frame. They are only speculation and rumors, were they true, did Janet find out, and think OMG not again, here I am with this deadbeat of a husband, I'm pregnant again, he's a thief and a cheater ONCE again and I'm pregnant or what? We have no clue at this point.

But whatever was going on at this time. Janet was the Victim, and not involved with the embezzlement and she had a child she was trying to raise, with absolutely NO HELP from the Monster, she called her Husband and this is a very important aspect to keep in mind.

He started embezzling BEFORE Kaiden was even born.

I am of the belief that Raven slowly, methodically, plotted the murder of Janet.

Once he was caught for Embezzlement, he realized Janet would eventually leave him, because he is a failure. He was the cheat, a thief, and it would make him look so much worse if his wife and baby left him and he probably did seek comfort in another woman's arms though unconfirmed.

I believe that Janet may have told him she was pregnant prior to his April 25, 2005 stupid Web Site and that goes towards premeditation of this plans.

Above is just my perspective - take it or leave it or feel free to correct me, but this is the way things play in my head and I'm sticking to it, until corrected by someone in the know or until TRIAL.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

..however--------i love it that "everyone there had been told that "he did it"------------being the pompous big shot ( that he perceives himself to be ) he'll surely 'slip up' sometime soon, and "everyone" will be watching for that.......

I hope you're right, lauriej. I personally believe that slipping up often comes from guilt or anxiety over what you've done. But if he's a sociopath like we've all speculated many times, then Janet isn't even on his mind. She was subtracted from the calculation, and he can't understand why we can't all just move on like he has.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

How could Janet not have known? If she did, why did she marry him? Stay with him and have his baby?

Janet fell in love with Raven in college, away from their families. She probably had no idea of any negative things that existed in that family. Even after they were married, his family lives in Utah, California, Arizona ... did her path even cross much with theirs?

And remember too that Janet was a shy and quiet girl. She fell in love with this man that seemed larger than life, a man who by all accounts was a charming extrovert; he probably (at one point) made her feel so alive. And once he knew he had her hooked, that's when he probably began to isolate and control her. And once that begins to happen, there are so many psychological factors interacting with each other that it's often impossible for women to remove themselves from that situation. They're isolated (intentionally) to the point that they believe their controlling man when he tells them that no one else will want them, and begin to feel lucky that this man will have them when no one else will. Add a child or children to the mix, and it's virtually cementing the situation.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

..you're right............i can't remember, i'm sure jersey can, but "shiloh" did have an alternate name on classmates.........

Treena Smith?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

He gets back with Janet sometime in April and within 3 months - July he starts EMBEZZLING FUNDS! Guess the growing up and stop shirking responsibilities means to STEAL.

What this shows me is that Raven went from living care-free in a new relationship that was still exciting to being pushed into doing the right thing ... "getting pressure from family and friends that I'm shirking my responsibility" ... so was getting back together with Janet for the sake of the baby even Raven's idea or did perhaps his family/church/friends make him feel like he should?

Anyway, he goes from having these few months of excitement that he probably forgot existed to moving back in with his estranged wife who's now expecting a baby. (Please know that I mean no disrespect to Janet - all of us that have been in relationships know that after the early stages, the excitement wanes and is replaced by something deeper and more steady.) Within only three months, his tendency to overindulge himself with his toys (cars, trips, etc.) combined with his new responsibility to pay rent and prepare for the upcoming birth of a third mouth to feed made him feel the need to embezzle. He didn't/couldn't curb his lifestyle - after all, he felt that he deserved these things; he was somehow entitled to have cars, computers, PDA's, cell phones, soccer memberships, etc. So rather than give up these things, he stole money in order to continue having those things. But I believe that he was so out of control that even in spite of the added income from soccer shoe sales on e-bay, he had overextended himself financially. What he needed to do was to sell everything and start from square one. We see indications of him realizing that that's what he needed to do. But we also see MANY indications that he in no way wanted to do that. I think that he got deeper and deeper into debt, knew what he had to do but couldn't do it, somehow made it all Janet's fault that these things were happening, and ultimately made her pay for his extravagant lifestyle and delusions of grandeur.

When I see these things listed the way you listed them, term, it looks like Raven was a ticking time bomb. Unfortunately, the evidence that indicates that wasn't evident at that point in time.