General Discussion and Theories

[EDGE1124]

1. Does anyone recall seeing that the "burner" phone was purchased a few months before the TB tragedy? I seem to recall that point. And it bothers me. What was the point of a "burner" phone a few months ago?

2. If it weren't for the tattoo & the phone would we even now have DM in custody? This is where the "getting away with it" falls apart. But did DM realize that? I don't think so. Thus the hubris of parking the trailer at mom's, the having of trails of evidence all over DMs properties. Think of Russell Williams leaving bootprints in snow and parking his truck where it could be seen, etc. We give far too much credit to the bad guys. And see how many of us it's taken to point out the trails left behind and question them.

3. We "sleuths" here are fairly rational people. How rational is it to "truckjack", to kill someone in the commission of said "truckjack", to burn the body instead of dumping it many miles away, to keep said truck locally instead of stashing it many miles away????

4. Detectives and criminologists of the profiler persuasion work many years to "get into" the minds of perpetrators, to see things as "perps" do. Even after decades of an amateur interest in criminal profiling and pathological behavior I cannot really go there. I can sometimes glimpse the twisted reasoning but....

5. I love logic. Analysis is one of my fortes. Good detective work is a combination of analysis/logic and a "nose" for pieces of the puzzle, so to speak. To ascribe logic to "perps" in the sense that we ordinarily use logic is, I think, giving more credit than is due. The "perp" may have what is to him/her an inner logic that defies what the rest of society could or would subscribe to. Think Paul Bernardo, Russell Williams, etc.

There. I've laid out some thoughts I've had, helped much by many of you. Thanks. All of it JMHO.

I too heard on a radio report that a burner phone was purchased or in use for the past 3 months. If so, I assume DM did not have a long game in play because that leaves too many called numbers to bring into question and close in on him had he been linked to burner phone. So if phone had been in use for 3 months he may have just decided to use this phone for wheeling and dealing and other shenanigans and was naive and thought burner phone meant he could not be traced...it will be interesting in a year or two or whenever if phone record details (weeks before and few days after) play a big part in the case. Why did you call this person, why was this company calling you, what did you discuss with so and so for 3 min at 4am on May 7th?? Just an example of course...

 

[EDGE1124]

Here is a map I've created - I would make it open to anyone for editing, but I fear it would end up being vandalized at some point:

http://goo.gl/maps/TDIKg

Let me know if anything should be added or modified, I think I got most of it right. I can edit map points, add them, whatever. Not sure how it helps but I was trying to visualize some things, thought I'd share.

All looks good...just one tiny thing that might confuse 3 or 4 people out of the hundreds on here

The tattoo test drive date s/b 05/05 rather than 06/06

 

[Ernesto]

All looks good...just one tiny thing that might confuse 3 or 4 people out of the hundreds on here

The tattoo test drive date s/b 05/05 rather than 06/06

Ah good catch, fixed.

 

[EDGE1124]

Ah good catch, fixed.

See I can't even get it right...I put not 06/06, meant to say not 06/05 haha, the stickler I am. BTW if you add all the points for possible theories and unconfirmed rumours, we can have your map looking like a Lite Brite!!!

 

[Ernesto]

After considering some of the replies in here, looking at my map, etc... I'm beginning to accept the fact that they planned a theft, it went wrong, and the tattoo and phone brought them down. They tried to get rid of evidence in places that were familiar to them, and felt confident there was no way they could be found. I really wanted to consider some other explanation that made a little more sense, so this whole thing wouldn't seem so senseless, but I think it's as simple and brutal as that.

I still think it's a little crazy that Millard left the truck where it was, and left the other evidence where it could be found with a little digging, but I guess it's not out of the question if he felt really confident. Still odd though, with all that heat, the first thing I'd do is get that truck as far away from me as possible, burn it, sink it, whatever. The question that still bothers me: why risk everything when you've already got it all? DM could have bought that truck from Tim for a drop in the bucket of his millions in assets.

 

[gcplayer19]

After considering some of the replies in here, looking at my map, etc... I'm beginning to accept the fact that they planned a theft, it went wrong, and the tattoo and phone brought them down. They tried to get rid of evidence in places that were familiar to them, and felt confident there was no way they could be found. I really wanted to consider some other explanation that made a little more sense, so this whole thing wouldn't seem so senseless, but I think it's as simple and brutal as that. I still think it's a little crazy that Millard left the truck where it was, and left the other evidence where it could be found with a little digging, but I guess it's not out of the question if he felt really confident. Still odd though, with all that heat, the first thing I'd do is get that truck as far away from me as possible, burn it, sink it, whatever.

I don't think it was a planned theft ...what was in it for DM, 33 to 50% of the profit??? Really..is he willing to throw away his mini empire for 15000 dollars for example. He didn't need the money, but all evidence points to him...this was a true rush that no amount of money could buy. I feel like we are missing something...but what????
gc

 

[onlooker62]

I don't think it was a planned theft ...what was in it for DM, 33 to 50% of the profit??? Really..is he willing to throw away his mini empire for 15000 dollars for example. He didn't need the money, but all evidence points to him...this was a true rush that no amount of money could buy. I feel like we are missing something...but what????
gc

I agree, we're missing a huge chunk.

 

[THXGuru]

After considering some of the replies in here, looking at my map, etc... I'm beginning to accept the fact that they planned a theft, it went wrong, and the tattoo and phone brought them down. They tried to get rid of evidence in places that were familiar to them, and felt confident there was no way they could be found. I really wanted to consider some other explanation that made a little more sense, so this whole thing wouldn't seem so senseless, but I think it's as simple and brutal as that.

I still think it's a little crazy that Millard left the truck where it was, and left the other evidence where it could be found with a little digging, but I guess it's not out of the question if he felt really confident. Still odd though, with all that heat, the first thing I'd do is get that truck as far away from me as possible, burn it, sink it, whatever. The question that still bothers me: why risk everything when you've already got it all? DM could have bought that truck from Tim for a drop in the bucket of his millions in assets.

I like this idea, however I still go back to the idea that DM was rich and his father mysteriously committed suicide and his ex gf went missing and was the last person she called was DM. Then there is the incinerator on the property. I firmly believe we have a sociopath.

For a man who just bought a $650k condo, a $24k dodge truck is chump change. Not worth the risk IMO.

As for MS, not sure what my thoughts are on that.

 

[THXGuru]

I don't think it was a planned theft ...what was in it for DM, 33 to 50% of the profit??? Really..is he willing to throw away his mini empire for 15000 dollars for example. He didn't need the money, but all evidence points to him...this was a true rush that no amount of money could buy. I feel like we are missing something...but what????
gc

Sociopathic behaviours?

You are right, not worth such small chump change. The empire he had was too big to throw away.

Now add in the ex girlfriend who went missing and his father who killed himself, I think these are the missing pieces.

 

[Bellbaby]

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/3238686-many-unanswered-questions-in-bosma-murder-case/

According to this timeline in the article, the drive through Brantford is out of place with DM or MS's other stops. I'm wondering if Brantford is the location suspect #3 lives.

My theory is constantly going back and forth between sociopath/thrill kill and botched robbery.

Now, I'm thinking DM is a sociopath. It was another kill for him, in addition to his father and ex-girlfriend. DM recruited MS, although probably very easily, to come with him on another kill. I'm not sure if MS knew of the prior kills. This would feed DMs ego. And MS probably admired DMs lifestyle, DM probably spent a few dollars going out, doing drugs with him, etc. MS wanted to impress DM and keep him in his life, maybe a bit fearful as well.

Suspect #3 was probably one of MS friends, just an assumption based on socioeconomic factors. Suspect #3 probably thought it was just going to be a vehicle theft. That's why he was not in the truck with DM or MS. When#3 realized there was a murder he panicked, wanted nothing to do with it. Maybe DM/MS handed #3 the cell, said there's DNA evidence your involved now to blackmail #3 into keeping quiet. They drove #3 home to Brantford. I think it was a messy murder in the truck, hence the seats removed. I don't know why they didn't just get rid of the whole truck. Unless the plan was to dump the truck later, after trying to clean the DNA up a bit.

 

[ellie b]

The only element that troubles me about this scenario is why did DM own that shiny new incinerator when he had no livestock. That still requires explanation if you want to make this a spur of the moment decision

Laura Babcock

 

[gimme sugar]

I agree, we're missing a huge chunk.

I've been reading these threads for weeks and while I'm formulating a few responses and theory of my own, something here, really sticks out for me that hasn't been mentioned.

Without going into theories and the craziness that pointed all evidence to DM, which I'll get into in another post when I have more time...

Has anyone ever thought about the fact that maybe, just maybe, DM was in SO deep with something/someone, or things were way too much for him to handle/be responsible of, since his Dad died, that maybe he WANTED to get caught? Maybe he's in so deep with something/someone, that it's SAFE/PROTECTIVE in jail for him, more then being out in the real world? That maybe HE'S trying to take down someone, by sitting silently in jail?

I used to work in a jail and I can tell you this, a few inmates in my pod, would have rather sat in jail and let a jury prove them guilty/innocent, then have everything taken away from them/be stuck in the current disaster of a life they were wrapped up in (he can safely transfer everything to his Mom and have her taken care of, instead of lose his assets, to pay "debts"). Maybe he WAS in it to help his friend/steal a truck and something went wrong and when he couldn't cope with everything that did go wrong, he led the police TO him, so that he could be taken in, to sit there silent and protected.

Again, I have a lot of thoughts and a theory to put forward when I can, but I think that we are missing a big piece of the puzzle... maybe he WANTED to get caught. :jail:

All IMO only.

 

[canadiangirl]

I was just going to post the same as the other poster, maybe DM WANTED to be caught. Really a person cannot be that dumb can they? Common sense would say, hide evidence on your own properties you'll be found out. And the trailer in his Mom's driveway? Something is just fishy IMO

 

[Blomquist]

To keep it hidden, they wouldn't choose to burn a corpse in a public park or someone else's property. It makes sense, from their perspective, to conceal things within the realm of the property where they could make efforts to do so. If the incinerator was already on hand at the farm, they likely saw it as handy tool to destroy Tim's corpse. JMO (However, this is based on the opinions of many who believe that the incinerator was used to burn Tim.)

Except there is as yet no indication that an incinerator was used. Could well be that the incinerator was found a fair distance from the remains. Also LE are claiming that TB was identifiable at an early stage of the investigation, which imo means he was not incinerated, or at least not totally. JMO again but if they were going to use an incinerator why only use it for a limited time, I dont buy the 'they were rushing and didnt have time' theory, JMO

 

[Lindsay7136]

For those on the "theft gone wrong" track (and much of it is pretty persuasive), what are your thoughts on the incinerator?

Even if we dismiss the WM and Laura Babcock cases (meaning we reject the idea of DM being a killer), I still haven't seen a viable explanation of why DM purchased an incinerator intended specifically for burning animal bodies in July 2012.

Awfully convenient to have around when the TB murder happened, though.

Edit: onlooker beat me to it.

The incinerator is the one thing bothering me too. Aside from animals, what other possible things could be burned in that incinerator?

 

[Lindsay7136]

I guess I'll just point out that the one he bought is pretty specifically marketed for burning animal remains, not brush, and leave it at "agree to disagree" for the moment.

Maybe it has a higher temperature than ones aimed at burning brush so he could burn it faster? (I don't know much about incinerators so I'm not sure if this makes any sense or not).

 

[Archangel7]

Except there is as yet no indication that an incinerator was used. Could well be that the incinerator was found a fair distance from the remains. Also LE are claiming that TB was identifiable at an early stage of the investigation, which imo means he was not incinerated, or at least not totally. JMO again but if they were going to use an incinerator why only use it for a limited time, I dont buy the 'they were rushing and didnt have time' theory, JMO

Identifiable and beyond recognition are two different things in a police investigation.

You can ID a burned beyond recognition corpse.

However I understand your point about the incinerator.

 

[THXGuru]

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/3238686-many-unanswered-questions-in-bosma-murder-case/

According to this timeline in the article, the drive through Brantford is out of place with DM or MS's other stops. I'm wondering if Brantford is the location suspect #3 lives.

My theory is constantly going back and forth between sociopath/thrill kill and botched robbery.

Now, I'm thinking DM is a sociopath. It was another kill for him, in addition to his father and ex-girlfriend. DM recruited MS, although probably very easily, to come with him on another kill. I'm not sure if MS knew of the prior kills. This would feed DMs ego. And MS probably admired DMs lifestyle, DM probably spent a few dollars going out, doing drugs with him, etc. MS wanted to impress DM and keep him in his life, maybe a bit fearful as well.

Suspect #3 was probably one of MS friends, just an assumption based on socioeconomic factors. Suspect #3 probably thought it was just going to be a vehicle theft. That's why he was not in the truck with DM or MS. When#3 realized there was a murder he panicked, wanted nothing to do with it. Maybe DM/MS handed #3 the cell, said there's DNA evidence your involved now to blackmail #3 into keeping quiet. They drove #3 home to Brantford. I think it was a messy murder in the truck, hence the seats removed. I don't know why they didn't just get rid of the whole truck. Unless the plan was to dump the truck later, after trying to clean the DNA up a bit.

I said this a while ago, and I think this is the case for suspect 3, he/she lives in Brantford and DM/MS were headed to Brantford to drop off #3 and then DM/MS took each of the Yukon and Ram and headed back to Waterloo area.

 

[FastLikeLight]

1. Does anyone recall seeing that the "burner" phone was purchased a few months before the TB tragedy? I seem to recall that point. And it bothers me. What was the point of a "burner" phone a few months ago?

It was revealed in the press conference. The same conference gave details about a suspect ("ambition" etc). It also provided a previous experience on Sunday (a suspicious behavior). IMO, the details of Sunday test-drive might give really what happened on Monday. However, LE did not reveal much about it, and LE did not answer direct questions.

As for the link: maybe someone could provide it quicker.

 

[farfrmnormal]

Police are back on scene at the Millard Farm in North Dumfries

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/police-back-on-scene-at-millard-farm-in-north-dumfries-1.1300149