General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[jjenny]

just how many people did he call? (father, best pal, a female neighbour, more?) -- is this normal? (i do know the ramsey's did this...)

the shot to her hip? if it was truly an accident, he'd have stopped there, right? no more shots should've been fired ?

(who, after "accidentally" shooting someone they "love", would continue to shoot for ANY reason - even to break down the door as suggested below?)

the one theory proposed in the daily mail article linked above suggests



so it should be easy to see if the pattern of bullet holes in the door matches up or not. if the bullet holes are not concentrated around the doorknob/lock, easily disproved ?

How do they come up with these theories? Why would anyone shoot at the lock, instead of asking her to come out, if the first shot was by accident? I am amazed they haven't yet come up with scenarios of her shooting herself.

 

[Xavier]

Christ! If he beat her with the bat as well, then, I have no words! That article says she was wearing a nightie too. An intruder in a nightie? Of course. It seems pretty obvious something caused them to have a massive row in the night and Oscar to go crazy. Sickening.

Sarah -- I agree if the cricket bat was used, OP surely knew he was hitting Reeva with it...

This case is gonna get ugly

Damn, so incredibly sad...but I'm waiting for all of the facts ...No rush to judge, poor Reeva

 

[Xavier]

This whole matter is just so sad.

Reminds me again, why people and especially children should have role models close to them, rather than looking at sports figures or celebrities as role models.

that's so true, children, young adults, rarely name their parents, family as role model heroes, especially when so many are so deserving of this appreciation

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

'Blade Runner' nearly shot friend days before attack on model girlfriend

Gun-loving “Blade Runner” Oscar Pistorius nearly shot a friend two weeks before allegedly blowing away his gorgeous gal pal, according to published reports today.

Pistorius, in jail since the Valentine Day’s slaying of stunner Reeva Steenkamp, accidentally shot one round at the foot of boxer Kevin Lerena, while they dined with friends at a swanky Johannesburg restaurant, the fighter told Beeld newspaper.

Lerena said Pistorius mishandled the weapon and it fired one round that nearly hit his foot.


“I got a huge fright, because the bullet hit the ground just centimeters from my foot. I must emphasize that the gun belonged to one of Pistorius’ friends,” Lerena told the newspaper.

“Oscar just wanted to look at the gun, and it sort of snagged on his pants, releasing the safety catch. A shot went off. I wouldn’t call him negligent, it was just an accident. He apologized to me for days afterwards.”


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/blade_runner_almost_shot_friend_9X5yGZZYpGacQuPNkLVjZJ

 

[Estelle]

Good points----I have a hard time believing OP didnt know Reeva was in the bathroom

I mean they probably were talking to each other while he stood at the bathroom door

I'm sure he yelled out "who's in the bathroom"?

"Oscar, it's me Reeva"

Then he shoots her ...4 times, then uses a cricket bat to beat her head when he sees it's Reeva?

This looks like a crime of passion...Damn sad, sad story

I agree that they would have been talking and her voice gave him the clue as to where he could fire the gun to kill her.

 

[Estelle]

Well I sure hope he doesn't expect me to believe that after the first shot she didn't scream or yell out in pain or surprise. (knowing it's a woman, he'd have to know.)

Then to shoot 3 more times without identifying? I suppose I'm not buying the I thought it was an intruder theory.

JMO

"The publication of these allegations illustrates that the so called sub judice rule is no longer in existence in its original guise in South Africa," said Pierre De Vos, a constitutional law expert at the University of Cape Town. "It also illustrates that in the court of public opinion the notion of 'innocent until proven guilty' is often used by those blindly and loyally supporting a criminal accused to try to avoid admitting that their guy might very well be a criminal."

The lead prosecutor in the Pistorius case is the notoriously tough Gerrie Nel, who bounced back from being arrested in 2010 on the orders of former police commissioner Jackie Selebi to have him convicted on corruption charges. The fact that he has chosen to go for the stronger "premeditated murder" charge – a schedule 6 offence under South Africa's Criminal Procedures Act – suggests the forensic evidence is compelling. There is no equivalent to the "crime of passion" under the country's law and premeditation in this case means prosecutors believe that the accused shot his girlfriend more than once and with enough time to decide that he meant to kill her.

The cricket bat and the love triangle allegedly involving another South African sports star – who has denied any involvement – may turn out to be red herrings. Well-placed police sources have said the bat is irrelevant to the state's case. But privately, even the Pistorius family accepts that the case is nonetheless very strong.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...und-the-death-of-reeva-steenkamp-8500370.html

 

[Estelle]

Although he was not in the Olympics he surely must have been tested? Yet he got away with it for years.

IMO if he had taken steroids on 13-14/2/2013, the public will wonder if he had been taking them for years. He will come out as a fake in the end IMO.

 

[Estelle]

There have been no confirmed reports in SA media about steriods found. I heard on the radio this morning that its been confirmed a cricket bat was indeed found. Im going to wait for tomorrows bail hearing before I start believing anything...a few solid details/facts should emerge.

Those pictures of his bathroom makes me wonder hth he shot her while on the loo..looks like the bath is actually directly in front of the door with the toilet to the far left (if standing in the doorway) unless he shot at the door at an angle...which would then mean he has every intent to kill her. Maybe she was sitting on the edge of the bath looking towards the door rather than on the loo as reported???

I read where it was said that he shot her "obliquely".

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Pistorius Loses Ad Deals With Nike, Oakley

http://abcnews.go.com/International/nike-oakley-pull-sponsorship-oscar-pistorius/t/story?id=18527579

 

[danzn16]

I also heard that the cricket bat is irrelevant and the entire bedroom had blood splatter all over. Also, that her skull was not "bashed" in from the cricket bat but from actually being shot. I would imagine a bullet to the skull could resemble it being smashed in???

Hmmm Patticake...the only theory I have is that I find it strange that the neighbours didnt call security after the inital 3 shots were heard..a 10minute lull? I doubt it...the place is a secure facility and security would have been called immediately after the first 3 shots were fired. Strangely, he managed to call a friend and his father before police/ambulance/security arrived so I guess anything is possible.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/i-saw-reeva-die-1.1471707

A 9mm wouldn't leave a smashed in skull similar to a bat's injuries. I am also interested in hearing if the bat was involved at all.

 

[Estelle]

Father blames steroids for murder
02 December 2004

The father of Pc killer David Bieber has blamed steroids for his son's descent into violence and crime.

Increased aggression and violent episodes among anabolic steroid users have been documented across the world since the 1970s by researchers examining what is sometimes labelled "roid rage".

Experts have also highlighted how a disturbing number of bodybuilders have been involved in murders compared with other sportsmen.

Anabolic steroids were first developed in the 1930s and are used by bodybuilders and other athletes to promote muscle development by flooding the body with the male hormone testosterone.

Physical side-effects

These range from acne and baldness through to breast development in men, shrunken testicles and even heart attacks and liver damage.

OP had acne when younger and is going bald.

Psychological effects

But the psychological effects, particularly with respect to aggression, are less well understood. In the 1970s anecdotal evidence began to suggest high doses of steroids could provoke "manic symptoms", including aggression, reckless behaviour and euphoria in some users.

Most researchers agree that some users are prone to sudden and sporadic outburst of violent "roid rage" but there is little agreement on why this happens and the extent of the problem.

In 1998 a much quoted article in the American magazine Sports Illustrated pinpointed the large number of bodybuilders jailed for killings compared with other athletes.

The case which has received the most attention is that of former Mr Universe, Bertil Fox, who was convicted of the murders of his girlfriend and her mother on the Caribbean island of St Kitts in 1998.

But, as with so many others, the link between steroid abuse and violence in the Fox case has always been implied rather than proved.

The leading researcher in the field, Dr Harrison Pope junior, said he is convinced some users with no previous history of violence are prone to aggressive, sometimes fatal, outbursts.

Violence

He said: "There have been many cases in the US which I have been involved with which involve individuals with no prior history of violence, no prior history of psychiatric disease and no prior criminal history who start taking anabolic steroids and then become a Jekyll and Hyde character.

"I think there is a consensus that steroids can do this to people. But it can vary so much from person to person.

"If you give steroids to a group of hamsters, many will become extremely aggressive and start beating up the other hamsters while others will remain perfectly calm.

"Some people seem to have this reaction and some people don't."

Aggression

Dr Pope, who is professor of psychiatry at McLean Hospital at the Harvard Medical School, recounted one case of a 16-year-old boy in Massachusetts who was described as "quiet and shy" until he took up bodybuilding and started taking steroids aged 14.

He began to be more aggressive and after finding out his 14-year-old girlfriend had spent a night with another girl and two boys, he lured her to woods, stabbed her in the back and cut her throat.

The teenager's defence team pointed to his steroid abuse at his trial but he was convicted of first degree murder and jailed for life.

Prompted by this, Dr Pope's team set out to study 133 convicted prisoners and found steroids were an "uncommon, though occasionally significant factor in criminal behaviour".

Other work has pointed to violence against women as a common manifestation of "roid rage".

But Dr Pope stressed the truth about the relationship between steroid use and violence will probably always remain anecdotal because of the difficulty of exposing large groups of people to high levels of steroids in laboratory conditions.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...her-blames-steroids-murder.html#ixzz2LIugalum

 

[Estelle]

A 9mm wouldn't leave a smashed in skull similar to a bat's injuries. I am also interested in hearing if the bat was involved at all.

I read that she had a fractured skull. So if he hit her with the cricket bat first fracturing her skull, then shot her hip in the bedroom, then she ran into the bathroom and he shot her 3 times through the bathroom door, that is NOT ACCIDENTAL or in self-defence. It is extremely VIOLENT!

I don't think he had any injuries himself so she had not hit him with it. But she could have picked it up in her own self-defence and he grabbed it off her and hit her. But how could she even move into the bathroom with a fractured skull and a gunshot wound in the pelvis? Perhaps she had to crawl into the bathroom locking the door behind her and refused to come out - hence the 10minutes gap between the first shot and the next three.

 

[LJKaust]

I can't imagine you would need to shoot the lock on the bathroom door to get it open. It's not like they have a deadbolt! Our lockable internal doors have ways to open them from the outside if necessary.

 

[Estelle]

Oscar Pistorius to seek bail for murder

Ginny Stein reported this story on Tuesday, February 19, 2013 08:29:00

SALLY SARA: South Africa's star athlete Oscar Pistorius is expected to appear in a Pretoria court today to seek bail after being charged with the murder of his girlfriend.

Across the country in the southern coastal city of Port Elizabeth, the family of 29 year old Reeva Steenkamp will be gathering for her funeral service.

While Oscar Pistorius is yet to put forward a defence, his family has denied that the death of his girlfriend was pre-meditated.

Africa correspondent Ginny Stein reports.

GINNY STEIN: In a country seemingly injured to violence, the multiple shooting and death of Reeva Steenkamp has once again shone the spotlight on South Africa's horrific crime rate and domestic violence.

Oscar Pistorius has long been viewed as a perfect sporting hero and role model. Universally admired in a still divided country for his victory over his disability, his appeal crossed all racial divides.

Today he will try to gain bail, most likely by arguing that the shooting death of his girlfriend was accidental.

Charged with pre-meditated murder, prominent Cape Town defence lawyer William Booth says it is going to be a tough argument.

WILLIAM BOOTH: If it was planned or premeditated it's much more difficult to get bail. There is an onus on an accused person in a situation where he is charged with murder to establish that he should be released. Where it's premeditated, that's even more difficult.

GINNY STEIN: Oscar Pistorius' family have released a statement refuting police charges that the shooting death of Reeva Steenkamp, a law graduate and model, was premeditated.

The bail hearing is expected to be both closely followed and hotly contested as it may shed the first real light on what happened on Valentine's Day morning inside Pistorius' high security gated estate.

William Booth.

WILLIAM BOOTH: In a situation where there is an accident, a firearm goes off, it might amount to negligence.

Again, the media has indicated that he was under the impression that this was a robbery and even if that was a mistaken impression on his part it might amount to no more than an accident and that might mean it's a situation of negligence - or in fact it might mean that he has a defence to this case and if that can be established then he should in any event be granted bail.

GINNY STEIN: Oscar Pistorius' star status is set to be brought into focus throughout this trial. Already there are reports that earlier incidents of domestic violence and discharging of a weapon in a public place were not investigated.

This is Ginny Stein in Johannesburg reporting for AM.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2013/s3693212.htm

 

[DorothyC]

He claims to have shot her by mistake:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...rius-I-shot-Reeva-in-the-dark-by-mistake.html

In his statement, the Paralympic hero claims he was woken by what he thought was an intruder and propelled himself from bed naked.
He said he grabbed his 9mm pistol and fired in the dark at the bathroom where he thought the intruder was hiding.
Pistorius says he was then horrified when he returned to the bedroom at his mansion to find Reeva, 29, was not there.

 

[DorothyC]

He claims that the boxes of steroids were in his bedroom drawer because he was keeping it for a friend:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-kept-steroids-home-1717061

A stash of drugs found at the home of murder suspect Oscar Pistorius was being stored there for a friend, the athlete allegedly told police.

“Boxes and boxes” of steroids were said to have been discovered in a drawer by detectives investigating the gun death of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

I wonder why his car was running when the police got there?

After Reeva’s death, the runner’s car was found on the drive with engine ticking over and keys in the ignition. It is thought the star – who has been charged with his lover’s murder – may say he was going to take her to hospital himself.

 

[Estelle]

'I kept drugs for a friend': What Oscar Pistorius allegedly told police after steroids stash discovered 19 Feb 2013 00:00

“Boxes and boxes” of steroids were said to have been discovered in a drawer by cops investigating the gun death of Reeva Steenkamp

A stash of drugs found at the home of murder suspect Oscar Pistorius was being stored there for a friend, the athlete allegedly told police.

“Boxes and boxes” of steroids were said to have been discovered in a drawer by detectives investigating the gun death of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

The haul of unopened packages included “every form possible” such as capsules, ampoules and syringes, it is claimed.

Police also said Reeva’s iPad will form an “intrinsic part” of the probe after being found at the scene.

And they are keen to discover why *Pistorius’s car was on the drive with the engine running.

Forensic experts are now testing the drugs which officers believe may include testosterone and blood oxygen capsules.

Blood and urine samples from Pistorius, 26, are also being checked.

Detectives are looking at the possible theory he shot his girlfriend dead in a “roid rage” frenzy – a temper brought on by the use of the drugs.

Anabolic steroids, such as testosterone are banned under competition rules. Blood oxygen capsules are also forbidden.

They increase red blood cell count and push extra oxygen to muscles. Pistorius has never tested positive for banned drugs.

As he prepares for a second appearance in court today and 30-year-old Reeva’s distraught family gather for her funeral, experts were last night testing his clothes, two mobile phones and the victim’s iPad.

The device was said to be on the blood-stained bedroom floor, still switched on after the tragedy.

Late night Facebook messages to South African national team rugby star *Francois Hougaard and other male pals of Reeva are thought to be on it.

A police source said: “There was nothing untoward in these messages, they were just to male friends.”

Francois, also a friend of Paralympian Pistoruis, has strenuously denied he played any part in “this whole sad ordeal”.

After Reeva’s death, the runner’s car was found on the drive with engine ticking over and keys in the ignition. It is thought the star – who has been charged with his lover’s murder – may say he was going to take her to hospital himself.

Or was he going to dump the body where he thought it could never be found?Hence he was carrying her down the stairs - to remove her from the scene so he did not call an ambulance or the police and could have called friends and family first to help him clean up before police arrived.

Reeva’s mum June wept as she described the loss of “the most beautiful person who ever lived” and who died “a horrendous death”.

The 66-year-old said: “She loved like no one else could love. She had so much of herself to give and now all of it is gone.

"Just like that, she is gone. In the blink of an eye and a single breath.

“All we want are answers, answers as to why this had to happen, why our beautiful daughter had to die like this.”

Reeva’s flatmate Gina Myers added: “We want the truth to come out.”

Police who arrived at the home of *Pistorius in Pretoria after the Valentine’s Day killing were met with a scene of horror.

They are said to have found blood all over the bedroom, *bathroom and stairway – where the runner had carried Reeva downstairs, giving her mouth-to-mouth.

A bloodied cricket bat was also found on the floor at the end of his bed.

It is believed she was sat on the toilet when shot in the head, arm, pelvis and her hand.

A postmortem revealed she had also suffered trauma wounds to the back of her head.
I guess those wounds were the result of the cricket bat!

Officers were yesterday reinterviewing neighbours who first alerted guards of a disturbance in the complex.

It is believed they had first comp*lained about noise at 11.30pm on February 13.

Security were asked to tell Pistorius to keep the noise down.

But it allegedly escalated and the guards were again called at 1.30am to sort out what was described as a “bloody racket”.

Pistorius’s dad Henke last night told how they were preparing themselves for a difficult time – as his defence tries to fight for bail.

He said: “We are realists, not fools. This is not going to be easy but Oscar is strong beyond his years.”

But he had a dig at those he feels are quick to try to destroy his son’s *reputation before he has even been tried.

He added: “There is something *fundamentally wrong with our society.

"We build people up into heroes, who overcome immense challenges, only to take glee in breaking them down.”

Pistorius’s brother Carl tweeted: “Praying 4 Reeva’s family like my brother asked, praying 4 my brother.”

Yesterday police forensic experts had handed over Pistorius’s home to his defence team who are carrying out their own investigations.

Nike, one of Pistorius’s sponsors, said they had no plans to use him in future advertising campaigns.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...pt-steroids-home-1717061#.USLmxS4hE3o.twitter

 

[DorothyC]

So, there was a bullet or bullet casing found in the bedroom; bed described as clearly being slept in by two people; & she was wearing a 'nightie'.

The pair had been sleeping together prior to the incident around 3:20 a.m. — Steenkamp was wearing a nightie and the bedsheets showed signs two people had been sleeping there, the paper reported.
A spent 9-mm. cartridge on the bedroom floor indicated to investigators that that was where the deadly attack began, sources said.
After the first gunshot, investigators suspect the wounded Steenkamp fled to a bathroom, where she hid behind a door.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...-case-reports-article-1.1266376#ixzz2LJPYvlZq

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57569823/new-details-emerge-in-pistorius-murder-case/

(CBS News) LONDON - Police believe Reeva Steenkamp, the girlfriend of Olympic runner Oscar Pistorius, was in her nightgown in the bedroom when she was first shot, according to South African media reports.

She slept in the same bed as Pistorius, police said. She then ran to the bathroom and locked herself inside, where she was shot in the head, hand and arm. Pistorius reportedly broke through the bathroom door and carried his dying girlfriend down the stairs.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Hey question... he says he propelled himself from the bed naked right? So therefore he had no legs on. Unless he sleeps with his blades (which I doubt) then what he crawls on his knees with the gun or cricket bat or both .. when does he put the legs on .. before he carries her down the stairs obviously. Wouldn't that take some time, wouldn't you just pick up a phone? OH and the drugs were for a friend?? Which one? He is so full of it.

Hasn't Nike had a bad year?

 

[danzn16]

If you hear someone in your bathroom and you had someone spending the night with you wouldn't you think first where is that person?? Especially if you're to shoot up people before even knowing who they are! I mean really this makes no sense