General Discussion Thread #2

[Carol70]

PISTORIUS'S AUNT IS ONE OF SOUTH AFRICA'S TOP MURDER EXPERTS

Oscar's aunt Micki Pistorius is a top criminal profiler

In yet another sensational twist to emerge from the Oscar Pistorius case - it has emerged his aunt is one of South Africa's top criminal profilers.

Micki Pistorius, 52, is the author of 'Profiling Serial Killers and other crimes in South Africa' and spent six years in the country's police department as founder of an investigative psychology unit.

She regularly attended court with the rest of the Pistorius family during his bail hearing last week, but has not made any public comment about his case.

A prosecution lawyer confirmed to The Independent yesterday that she will not be consulted about her nephew's psychology - although it is likely to be discussed in court.

The athlete has been accused of having 'a propensity for violence' during his bail hearing but magistrate Desmond Nair said he was not satisfied this had been proven.

In her book 'Catch Me A Killer', Dr Micki Pistorius claimed to have extra-sensory powers of perception which she called 'cryptesthesia'.

She has also made controversial comments about killers saying: 'Serial killers are not monsters; they are human beings with tortured souls. I will never condone what they do, but I can understand them.'
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Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...check-meet-bail-conditions.html#ixzz2LuvBmont

I was very surprised by this news to be honest, she is VERY well known here in SA and consulted on a lot of high profile cases.

 

[Carol70]

Let me just get this straight. I'm not denying the possibility it COULD have gone down like this, but there are one or two stumbling-blocks unless of course you have an a priori conviction that the perp is a premeditated killer.

In the first place, having been beaten about the head with 3lb (1.4 kg) of willow wood swung at you with criminal intent to harm you, and to the point where you not only have a fractured skull but your skull is "crushed" (sic), and THEN having been shot in the hip, how do you run to the bathroom?

A blow sufficient to fracture a person's skull (let alone crush it) is also quite likely to lay them out or at least make them sufficiently groggy that they wouldn't be running anywhere in a hurry.

To some extent I'm sceptical about all this stuff simply BECAUSE of the utterly dire quality of the publications it keeps popping to the surface in... The Daily Mail is not much more nourishing than a Corn Flakes packet, and is mainly aimed at people who like to read their news off Corn Flakes packets. By the same token, of course, I should be sceptical of The Sun's reporting of Adam's denial, but the difference is that that is a deliberately NON-sensational claim - it plays DOWN the story rather than fanning the flames... That's not normally The Sun's style.

Respectfully snipped..


Otyi....I think I love you!! :blushing:
Thank you!!!!

 

[Carol70]

That is a very logical and intelligent conclusion.Thank you.

And it makes sense. OP claims death threats. And it would be easy for a nutter to lie in wait at the station. ANd the justice system is responsible for his safety in this regard.

So a likely solution. In SA, do they not use electronic means for verifying he is at his new home 24/7?

No they don't, the closest they will have to monitoring his movements is surprise, random visits.

 

[Carol70]

I'm not surprised that so many are willing to run with the 'head bashed in' story, no matter how unconfirmed it is, because it makes him more guilty. Maybe I'm just naive for believing what was said during the hearing, but Botha got up there and said she only had the bullet wounds. By this time, an autopsy would of been done to identify any other wounds other than bullet wounds. He was confidant enough to testify that she had no other wounds, including defensive wounds. Even though he's not a doctor, I would think it would be pretty apparent if there were injuries to the head (bruising, blood, etc). These explanation that the guy would purposely lie about that (for reasons unknown) because they want the guy to get bail is to me trying to explain something that is unexplainable. One last point on this. Was it reported that she was still alive when he brought her downstairs? Was this verified by the EMT? If true, how is it possible she was still alive after getting her head bashed in with a bat?

The second point, of the defense team finding the 4th bullet casing. Understand the timeline here. They found it a day later, after the police forensic team had been through the place. The bigger surprise to me is how the crime scene was released to the defense after only a day, but perhaps rules about this in SA are very different than in the US.

I think if there was any evidence what's so ever that IO lied on the stand for what ever reason, the case would be thrown out of court, the prosecution would never have allowed that. It is safe to assume that everything Botha said on the stand is the absolute truth.

 

[NocturnalLady]

That's the seatbelt. In the one picture with her hand up by her face she looks to have on a light colored blouse. imo

I think that last photo is Oscar. So looking at those two photos it appears that at the time the crime was committed they both were still wearing the same clothes they arrived at the house in. Reeva in a black tank top and Oscar in a white t-shirt. I think this is VERY significant and blows a hole in OP's story. I mean - how many of you would go to sleep in the exact same clothes you wore out and about all day???

 

[shane13]

Lawd, I didn't want to mention this but simply have to, and absolutely no disrespect to Mr Myers, but if any of my daughters were dating someone that I had to give a warning to after only a few short weeks of dating, and found the person moody, hasty and impatient as well as disrespectful, I certainly wouldnt be hanging huge framed photos of myself and said suitor nor helping her to pick photos for valentines. Make of that statement what you like.

Also, since OP character has been assassinated via media, here are a few articles no one seems too interested in.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/my-pal-oscar-has-no-dark-side-1.1476562#.USuofXwaySN
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/who-is-oscar-pistorius-really-1.1476706#.USuoxXwaySN

Very logical again Carol.

Only thing I can add in re Mr Myers, is that he was like a surrogate Dad, and many parents find that trying to push someone away has the opposite effect. So maybe he gave up as Reena was 29, and wasn't listening for whatever reasons.

Even though you and I are on opposite sides of the fence re OP's guilt, you have posted some good links now as charascter references. Thank you.

For my part, the subpoened testimony of his former gf, Ms Taylor who was allegedly about to write a book or article, and may have been silenced will be very telling. Indeed there is evidence that he has threatened or sued others who may have actually been harmed by him. Someone who may actually have been harmed but who does not have the money to fight this will necessarily drop out. That is outrageous if true, and that is what some with money do.

Some people present very different sides of themselves to different people. Some men are horribly possesive about their gfs or wives, but OK with male friends.

RE my speculation of his guilt or not, I know it is mere speculation or opinion at this time, but I try to go with the most logical, likely or definitive evidence revealed in each matter. And as I have stated, and that Nigerian blogger's satire noted, the entire OP affidavit to me is absurd, improbable, etc. And such things as the 17 minute gap between shots fired are among the most telling. And ultimately character references are not evidence of the event in question. Indeed some of his own tweets are problematic. He joyfully reports that the noise of his washing machine got him into "full recon mode" wth his gun, etc.

I think by trial, there will be much testimony of troubling behavior from him, as well as evidence of what really happened.

Till then I await your sound presentations of evidence on his behalf. I am not married to any one view. And if ever anything is presented that would sway me, I will say so.

Thank you.

 

[gxm]

I think initial reports making mistakes is expected. One person could have said "it looks like her head is bashed in" before anyone really got to examine closely. It happens in nearly all of the widely and rapidly reported cases we see here.

The only issue is continuing to report it, even after an officer (under oath on the stand) said he was at the autopsy, not just the scene, and the only damage was bullets. That is when media needs to pull back, make some apologies/corrections, and stop reporting what was initially believed to be true, but after further investigation is found not to be.

As far as the cricket bat in the bedroom, he is afraid of the crime. I have a crowbar by my bed, a can of wasp spray, and a can of pepper spray. Hairspray is in the bathroom, although I use it for its intended purpose, it can also be used to spray in someone's face/eyes. We paranoid types think of these things, lol.

BBM.

But OP already had a gun in his bedroom. Was the cricket bat for when he ran out of ammo? It just doesn't add up because you don't need a cricket bat if you have a gun handy. And since it appears that OP slept without his prosthetic legs, then the gun is more logically his self-defense weapon as he wouldn't have optimal reach or mobility with just the cricket bat which I'm presuming would be of concern to a "paranoid type."

 

[shane13]

I think that last photo is Oscar. So looking at those two photos it appears that at the time the crime was committed they both were still wearing the same clothes they arrived at the house in. Reeva in a black tank top and Oscar in a white t-shirt. I think this is VERY significant and blows a hole in OP's story. I mean - how many of you would go to sleep in the exact same clothes you wore out and about all day???

Excellent point.

 

[Carol70]

If you look at the photos of Reeva arriving in her car, you can see in the picture with her hand to her face that the black thing is a seat belt and she has on what appears to be a light colored blouse.

Pistols typically eject the shell casing to the right and can land anywhere from 2 to 20 ft away.

Not directing this at anyone ...when posting information from somewhere please link it for others and remember copyright and WS rules about only quoting 10%.

I'm sure I can see a black strap over her left shoulder, the right shoulder has the seat belt??? She may have a light blouse over the vest...you know those type of blouses that have the shoulder exposed??

Sorry, think it was me about quoting such a huge text but the article is being sent via email all over the place. :blushing:

 

[21merc7]

BBM.

But OP already had a gun in his bedroom. Was the cricket bat for when he ran out of ammo? It just doesn't add up because you don't need a cricket bat if you have a gun handy. And since it appears that OP slept without his prosthetic legs, then the gun is more logically his self-defense weapon as he wouldn't have optimal reach or mobility with just the cricket bat which I'm presuming would be of concern to a "paranoid type."

The bat was at the other end of the room/bed. So, it could have been there as back up, if you cannot get close enough to the gun to grab it. The gun holster was on the bed, gun was either in the holster or under the bed according to the Affidavit. I can't remember. In the holster would be easier access in my mind.

Also worth noting, it could just simply be where he kept it. There was an article early on that showed photos inside his house. Not my idea of decor, but very minimal, with everything in a perfect, tidy place. That could have just been it's place.

 

[Lola]

I think if there was any evidence what's so ever that IO lied on the stand for what ever reason, the case would be thrown out of court, the prosecution would never have allowed that. It is safe to assume that everything Botha said on the stand is the absolute truth.

or he believes it to be the truth...gotta say this case just gets weirder by the day ESP serial killing profiling aunts, brother with his own manslaughter case pending, so what's next?

at this point the only things we can safely rely on is what was presented in court.

 

[NocturnalLady]

I'm sure I can see a black strap over her left shoulder, the right shoulder has the seat belt??? She may have a light blouse over the vest...you know those type of blouses that have the shoulder exposed??

Sorry, think it was me about quoting such a huge text but the article is being sent via email all over the place. :blushing:

The light colored top is seen in the third photo that is of Oscar not Reeva. There were two photos of Reeva showing the black straps of what appear to be a tank top then a third person in a light colored top with their face slightly obscured - that is Oscar.

 

[shane13]

I think if there was any evidence what's so ever that IO lied on the stand for what ever reason, the case would be thrown out of court, the prosecution would never have allowed that. It is safe to assume that everything Botha said on the stand is the absolute truth.[/QUOTE]

This I strongly disgree with. Again in a country with known massive corruption in its police and judicial system.

As has been noted, OP is said to be the most well known SAn after Mandela. Others have noted the contradictions in Botha's going along with the defense claims that nothing was off on OP's affidavit. This after Botha stated with the door evidence that OP's affidavit did NOT find the available evidence!

One can look up who Roux got off for creating and using poison on was it ANC members. Wikipedia says there was evidence of perjury in the trial that freed that Lt General.

There will be much deep politics going on with this one. "Absolute truth" exists in an absolute vacuum. Not with human beings involved. Alternatively it has been said, the only saints are the unborn.

 

[Carol70]

Shane, thanks for that..and I really do appreciate everyone's opinions. I am under no delusions that OP was a saint..But as it stands now, I find his statement absolutely plausible and a possibility but you have seen me post negative articles that I have found too so I'm not in total denial. Hehe, the trial is going to be interesting to say the least and I will be more than willing to eat my words if evidence proves beyond reasonable doubt that OP had every intention to murder Reeva.

 

[gxm]

The bat was at the other end of the room/bed. So, it could have been there as back up, if you cannot get close enough to the gun to grab it. The gun holster was on the bed, gun was either in the holster or under the bed according to the Affidavit. I can't remember. In the holster would be easier access in my mind.

Also worth noting, it could just simply be where he kept it. There was an article early on that showed photos inside his house. Not my idea of decor, but very minimal, with everything in a perfect, tidy place. That could have just been it's place.

Clearly, he was able to get to both without problem. It would be interesting to see if any of the magazine photos show the cricket bat in the bedroom. IMO, folks are most likely to keep the gun in the bedroom and the bat in the hallway. Don't know why, but for some reason people keep the bludgeon tool in a more general/common area and the gun in the bedroom. (I don't keep self defense tools at hand as I'm not very big and I always assume an attacker would take it away and use it on me.)

 

[Carol70]

or he believes it to be the truth...gotta say this case just gets weirder by the day ESP serial killing profiling aunts, brother with his own manslaughter case pending, so what's next?

at this point the only things we can safely rely on is what was presented in court.

I know..quite incredible if I say so myself!

 

[Carol70]

The light colored top is seen in the third photo that is of Oscar not Reeva. There were two photos of Reeva showing the black straps of what appear to be a tank top then a third person in a light colored top with their face slightly obscured - that is Oscar.

I don't think I have seen this article...can you remember which publication so I can have a quick hunt..I've only seen one picture of her arriving at the estate??

 

[shane13]

Shane, thanks for that..and I really do appreciate everyone's opinions. I am under no delusions that OP was a saint..But as it stands now, I find his statement absolutely plausible and a possibility but you have seen me post negative articles that I have found too so I'm not in total denial. Hehe, the trial is going to be interesting to say the least and I will be more than willing to eat my words if evidence proves beyond reasonable doubt that OP had every intention to murder Reeva.

Thanks again.
It will be interesting. Do you--like me--feel some type of remorse that now the police/prosecution will probably not present much or anything tothe public until trial, which I have a feeling will get delayed from June 4. Are we suffering from withdrawal?

And did you see that Nigerian blogger's satire piece on OP's afidavit, that was posted here a day or 2 ago? Obviously only satire, not evidence, but it was on point. I just think that so many claims, actions etc in OP's affidavit are improbable, along with such things as the 17 minute gap, and his behavior in court.

But I guess the bottom line is that his affidavit claims are not impossible. Maybe with the right lawyers etc in the USA, some juries would arrive at the "reasonable doubt" level."

That reminds me--what is the standard of innocence in SA? Is it any resonable doubt, as in the USA?

 

[natsound]

I think that last photo is Oscar. So looking at those two photos it appears that at the time the crime was committed they both were still wearing the same clothes they arrived at the house in. Reeva in a black tank top and Oscar in a white t-shirt. I think this is VERY significant and blows a hole in OP's story. I mean - how many of you would go to sleep in the exact same clothes you wore out and about all day???

Can someone post this picture that might be OP, or link to it? All reports I'm reading indicate he came home in a white BMW, but he was further away and cameras did not pick him up.

 

[Carol70]

I think if there was any evidence what's so ever that IO lied on the stand for what ever reason, the case would be thrown out of court, the prosecution would never have allowed that. It is safe to assume that everything Botha said on the stand is the absolute truth.[/QUOTE]

This I strongly disgree with. Again in a country with known massive corruption in its police and judicial system.

As has been noted, OP is said to be the most well known SAn after Mandela. Others have noted the contradictions in Botha's going along with the defense claims that nothing was off on OP's affidavit. This after Botha stated with the door evidence that OP's affidavit did NOT find the available evidence!

One can look up who Roux got off for creating and using poison on was it ANC members. Wikipedia says there was evidence of perjury in the trial that freed that Lt General.

There will be much deep politics going on with this one. "Absolute truth" exists in an absolute vacuum. Not with human beings involved. Alternatively it has been said, the only saints are the unborn.

No, I agree with you but would the prosectution even take this chance with a case that has garnered world wide attention? Im sure it didnt come as a shock on day 1 of the bail app that this was a huge story? They MUST have gone over evidence with Botha before he took the stand?