General Discussion Thread #4

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whiterum said:
Remember this , MB's comment about being called to a meeting with the three police colonels and Pistorius.



It appears 'the friends in high places' the colonels spoke of above were pulling the strings then, and it's obvious that there are strings being pulled in this case, big time !
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Why is colonels in quotes?
Were they even higher up?
 
whiterum said:
Never picked up on that Shane. Though their could be a General pulling their strings LOL.
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Ah, but to me, the person to focus on is not MB, but van der Burgh.
He is said to be a billionaire. Imagine the clout, etc?

Now he is pissed, and it was reported that he filed or tried to file both criminal and civil charges against OP for the racetrack incident.

Did anything happen to OP?

That's the level of what's going on here.

And if and when OP is found either innocent or gets a tiny sentence, who will prob be blamed for it all?

http://www.zapiro.com/cartoon/1486200-130221mg#.UbZFItgs1ac
 
whiterum said:
No doubt about it, with an excuse as lame as that he should have been laughed out of court.
Click to expand...

This tragedy has been morphed into a tragic-comedy.

Did you shoot and kill Reeva?
"Yes, I thought it was a burglar."

Did you wash your hands?
"Yes, because they had blood on them."

In court, Botha reveals that Oscar had illegal .38 ammo in his safe.
Roux: "Yes but they belong to his Dad." [or words to that effect] (And the media proclaims Roux as some super-lawyer--if the average lawyer would say that, he'd get arrested along with his client.)

Reporter: Do you have another phone for at least a week which was taken from the crime scene? [or words to that effect]
Roux: "Yes, but I can't talk about" [this one.]

Of course the 5th phone has, OR HAD, the proof of just when OP called certain people.

If anything untoward, it had to be removed...

And the so-called media? Nothing on the removal of that 5th phone and that it [once anyway] revealed just who and when certain people were called.
 
shane13 said:
This tragedy has been morphed into a tragic-comedy.

Did you shoot and kill Reeva?
"Yes, I thought it was a burglar."

Did you wash your hands?
"Yes, because they had blood on them."

In court, Botha reveals that Oscar had illegal .38 ammo in his safe.
Roux: "Yes but they belong to his Dad." [or words to that effect] (And the media proclaims Roux as some super-lawyer--if the average lawyer would say that, he'd get arrested along with his client.)

Reporter: Do you have another phone for at least a week which was taken from the crime scene? [or words to that effect]
Roux: "Yes, but I can't talk about" [this one.]

Of course the 5th phone has, OR HAD, the proof of just when OP called certain people.

If anything untoward, it had to be removed...

And the so-called media? Nothing on the removal of that 5th phone and that it [once anyway] revealed just who and when certain people were called.
Click to expand...



Well said Shane, what a farce ! Even now in the numerous press reports this phone seems to have faded into obscurity.

As Pistorius made a brief appearance yesterday before acting Pretoria chief magistrate Daniel Thulare, investigators a few blocks away were sifting through volumes of encrypted data on the cellphone. It was among four phones seized from Pistorius's luxury Silver Lakes home hours after he fired through a toilet door and hit Steenkamp.
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Still no mention of a vital fifth phone being sneaked out the back door, so to speak ,and being held in Roux's possession for a week.
 
whiterum said:
Well said Shane, what a farce ! Even now in the numerous press reports this phone seems to have faded into obscurity.



Still no mention of a vital fifth phone being sneaked out the back door, so to speak ,and being held in Roux's possession for a week.
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Yes.
Now maybe it all happened as OP says. It's still possible, "but highly unlikely."

And I am possibly the only one in the world (originally) discussing this.

So imagine 2 scenarios:

OP fires 2nd volley. Reeva shot in head--basically dead at that point. OP calls whoever-- Stander, ambulance, Carl P, Atty Oldwage, others. Not too bad for OP and his "team."

Different hypothetical scenario: Oscar shoots Reeva in a rage. She is in physical and mental shock cowering in the toilet and wisely does not open the door.
Oscar comes out of his rage and says to himself "what the hell did I do?" and "what the hell do I do now?" Calls for advice. You can speculate to whom.

Maybe he's told he will go to jail for a long time if there is a living witness. Maybe he does not want to do what he is advised to do, and it takes some coaxing as he is not in a rage. Maybe later he even feels guilt for following this advice. These calls made after the first shot, NOT 17 minutes later.

Certain people arrive very early to scene because of when they were actually called. Phone must not be allowed to be in cops hands. Cops on scene allow someone to take the 5th phone from the scene. Maybe even gave them the phone to take. (Some cop will be promoted rapidly, or maybe the opposite...) And this occurs long before the scapegoat Botha got there.

At Bail hearing, Magistrate Nair gives Botha hell during his ruling. And on Roux and DT having this 5th phone still over a week later--not a peep.

Likewise corrupt media--not a peep on this either.

There are ways to check some of this out. Can you good folks reply with an answer to my query on this?

Here endeth the lesson.
 
~snipped~

whiterum said:
The fact that the phone he used the night of the killing
was removed from the scene and later found to be in the possession of the defence is treated as insignificant and not worthy of mention.
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I am beyond incredulous about this. Sorry if this has already been covered, but there's been so much phone stuff that I've got quite confused.

1) Has the fifth phone ever been examined by the prosecution team?

2) Have any reasons been given at all as to why the defence have the phone?

3) Is it all likely (in The Twilight Zone) that the fifth phone has been 'altered' by technical experts on OP's team so that nothing incriminating will be found on it?

4) Have the prosecution not made a request for the phone to be submitted as evdience?

I'd have thought the phone was potentially one of the key pieces of evidence, so I cannot understand at all why it is in the hands of the defence. I can understand why they want OP to have a fair trial, but Reeva's the one who's dead - so justice must granted to her too. After all, if OP turns out to be a murderer, then acquitting him because of his name, fame, and recently-acquired fondness of God - would mean setting a killer on the loose - because if he's guilty, and the defence know whatever's on the phone is bad for OP - then they're perverting the course of justice and preventing a fair hearing for Reeva, aren't they?
 
soozieqtips said:
~snipped~


I am beyond incredulous about this. Sorry if this has already been covered, but there's been so much phone stuff that I've got quite confused.

1) Has the fifth phone ever been examined by the prosecution team?

2) Have any reasons been given at all as to why the defence have the phone?

3) Is it all likely (in The Twilight Zone) that the fifth phone has been 'altered' by technical experts on OP's team so that nothing incriminating will be found on it?

4) Have the prosecution not made a request for the phone to be submitted as evdience?

I'd have thought the phone was potentially one of the key pieces of evidence, so I cannot understand at all why it is in the hands of the defence. I can understand why they want OP to have a fair trial, but Reeva's the one who's dead - so justice must granted to her too. After all, if OP turns out to be a murderer, then acquitting him because of his name, fame, and recently-acquired fondness of God - would mean setting a killer on the loose - because if he's guilty, and the defence know whatever's on the phone is bad for OP - then they're perverting the course of justice and preventing a fair hearing for Reeva, aren't they?
Click to expand...


I would assume Soozie that the defence would have had to hand it over once they had disclosed details of a few of the calls OP had made on this phone at the BH, but by then they had it for around a week to examine or whatever.

Remember that Botha said that two iPhones and two BlackBerrys had been found at the scene and none had been used to call the police or paramedics.

Roux said that Botha had not asked to look at another of Pistorius’s phones, the one which that OP used to call for medical help and that a call was made at 3.20am to Netcare. Botha said that Pistorius had not told him about this other phone and he had only found out about it the day before the hearing and it that it appeared to the police that no- one phoned anyone.

Nel on the phone the police don't have - did anyone volunteer the phone?
Botha: No.
When did you first hear about this other phone, asks Nel. Yesterday afternoon, says Botha.
Nel to Botha - you are being questioned for not taking steps, but the people with the knowledge didn't volunteer it.
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What a twister this guy Roux is, he actually blamed Botha for not knowing what was on this fifth phone, for not knowing that OP called for medical help at 3:20 am. How on earth could he know when they had the phone that this information was on and had not handed it over to the police.
 
whiterum said:
I would assume Soozie that the defence would have had to hand it over once they had disclosed details of a few of the calls OP had made on this phone at the BH, but by then they had it for around a week to examine or whatever.

Remember that Botha said that two iPhones and two BlackBerrys had been found at the scene and none had been used to call the police or paramedics.

Roux said that Botha had not asked to look at another of Pistorius’s phones, the one which that OP used to call for medical help and that a call was made at 3.20am to Netcare. Botha said that Pistorius had not told him about this other phone and he had only found out about it the day before the hearing and it that it appeared to the police that no- one phoned anyone.


What a twister this guy Roux is, he actually blamed Botha for not knowing what was on this fifth phone, for not knowing that OP called for medical help at 3:20 am. How on earth could he know when they had the phone that this information was on and had not handed it over to the police.
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Thanks for clearing all this up for me whiterum. The whole thing sounds really dodgy with Roux trying to make Botha look like Inspector Clouseau with no credibility. As you say, how could Botha have known what was on the phone if he didn't even know there was another phone!
 
Estelle said:
With all this possible corruption, how is Reeva ever going to get justice?
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Little chance it seems.

But that post of mine you quote is about general corruption.

Above I have indicated specific corruption in this matter:

Atty Roux states in court there is a 5th phone which is the one that OP used to call people for help, and that DT has this phone--taken surreptiously and probably illegally--from the crime scene.

And for this admission does Mag. Nair or the Prosecution state that they will investigate this and charge whoever took that phone with a crime, and if it is an attorney they will get that attorney disbarred?

No. Prosecutor Nel says nothing, other than getting Botha to say during BH, that DT only notified him the day before of the 5th phone that they’ve had for a week. And Mag Nair actually digs into Botha for not immediately knowing whom OP called on that phone! But nothing about the crime, and “disbarribillity”— of taking that phone from the crime scene!

Likewise lackey media says nothing other than getting Roux to admit they’ve had that phone for the week. And above I asked sleuthers here to follow up on how to prove my scenario involving possible calls before the 17-minute gap, and no one here answers and tries… C'mon people, like the song says, "it's easy if you try"

None of the strangeness and possible corruption and collusion here surprises me because of what I know.

And you yourself posted twice where all this ends up going to…
 
shane13 said:
Little chance it seems.

But that post of mine you quote is about general corruption.

Above I have indicated specific corruption in this matter:

Atty Roux states in court there is a 5th phone which is the one that OP used to call people for help, and that DT has this phone--taken surreptiously and probably illegally--from the crime scene.

And for this admission does Mag. Nair or the Prosecution state that they will investigate this and charge whoever took that phone with a crime, and if it is an attorney they will get that attorney disbarred?

No. Prosecutor Nel says nothing, other than getting Botha to say during BH, that DT only notified him the day before of the 5th phone that they’ve had for a week. And Mag Nair actually digs into Botha for not immediately knowing whom OP called on that phone! But nothing about the crime, and “disbarribillity”— of taking that phone from the crime scene!

Likewise lackey media says nothing other than getting Roux to admit they’ve had that phone for the week. And above I asked sleuthers here to follow up on how to prove my scenario involving possible calls before the 17-minute gap, and no one here answers and tries… C'mon people, like the song says, "it's easy if you try"

None of the strangeness and possible corruption and collusion here surprises me because of what I know.

And you yourself posted twice where all this ends up going to…
Click to expand...

In no western country would Roux have got away with his tactics and would have already been debarred.

What about the bullet with brain matter on it found in the toilet too?

IMO these things could have been planned before police arrived. "Let's collect evidence then blame the police for not doing so to make them look foolish!"
 
Oliveira breaks Oscar Pistorius’ record
June 17, 2013 in Athletics, Sport

BERLIN — Brazilian Alan Oliveira has become the world’s fastest amputee after breaking Oscar Pistorius’ 100m T43 record.

The 20-year-old ran the record time of 10,77 seconds at the IPC Athletics Grand Prix in Berlin on Saturday.

Oliveira’s time is 0,14 seconds faster than the previous record of 10,91, which was set by Pistorius in April 2007 and equalled by Blake Leeper of the United States in July.

It is also 0,08 seconds faster than the 100m T44 record held by England’s Jonnie Peacock.

Oliveira made headlines last year when he beat Pistorius to gold in the T43/44 200m at the London Paralympics, which prompted the South African to complain about the length of his opponent’s blades.

The T43 category includes double below-the-knee amputees and other athletes with impairments deemed equivalent, while the T44 category is for those athletes who are single below-the-knee amputees and equivalent impairments.
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I am absolutely thrilled for Oliveira! We can guess what Pistorius' reaction was.
 
Pistorius: Crime of passion not ruled out
2013-06-10

Pretoria - The State will attempt to prove that Oscar Pistorius killed Reeva Steenkamp on the spur of the moment, and the possibility of a “crime of passion” has not been ruled out.

A source made this revelation to Volksblad based on forensic evidence that was gathered at the crime scene.

In legal terms, a crime of passion is a defendant's excuse for a violent crime due to sudden rage or heartbreak, rather than a premeditated crime.

The source also revealed that the trajectory of the bullets through the bathroom door indicated that Pistorius may indeed have been on his stumps when he fired the shots.

The source indicated he didn’t think it was right of the State to claim in the bail application that Pistorius was wearing his prosthetics before having analysed the evidence.

Police have apparently not ruled out the possibility that Steenkamp's death was not an accident.

Shots

It would also appear that the first shot that hit her was to the lower body. If the first shot fired from the 9mm pistol had been to her head, she would immediately have fallen forward, according to the source.

Steenkamp apparently had several wounds.

The key to the bathroom was apparently in the door and it was thought that she had locked the door.

The source also said the publication of photographs of the scene of the shooting would in no way hamper the case. "It's not a secret. Everyone knows she was shot in the bathroom. There was lots of blood, most of it around the toilet."
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http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pistorius-Crime-of-passion-not-ruled-out-20130610
 
Only in France is a crime of passionnel, or crime of passion, a legally recognised defence. In South Africa, a murder committed in a moment of passion is seen as a mitigating circumstance and does not merit special treatment. If the court accepts the view that the crime was committed during a moment of passion, then this usually means that an act of murder is reduced to a lesser charge, such as culpable homicide.
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http://www.africacrime-mystery.co.za/books/fsac/chp26.htm

Another case in 2010

‘It was a crime of passion’

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/it-was-a-crime-of-passion-1.688020#.Ub7Cn-cweS8
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...taining-vital-evidence-Reeva-murder-case.html

Pistorius 'has forgotten' code to unlock phone containing vital evidence in Reeva murder case

Four digit passcode is to mobile athlete was using on the night he killed girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp

South African police are working with Apple executives in America to access messages on the phone

Four mobiles were found on the bathroom floor where Miss Steenkamp was shot

Private text messages are believed to be a crucial part of the prosecution's case
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Not sure what to make of this. Did they just find out?
 
Forgotten a code? How convenient. Sure makes me curious as to what is on that phone.
 
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