George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

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turaj said:
Well bottom line absent the intervention of the police officers GF might be alive today...if they had done all of those same moves on a very healthy man maybe they would have survived but GF did not. Such a shame that GF did not listen to that wise 61 year old man...first on the scene who told him to comply that he was not going to gain anything with his resistance.
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He did stop resisting, as soon as he was put into the prone position in handcuffs. They continued to restrain him for nine minutes, ignoring his pleas for help.
 
shotgun09 said:
I can agree with the 'time bomb' statement. The 90 % blockage of his Right Coronary Artery ( RCA) was at the Proximal ( beginning ) end of the artery. Also, it was subtly pointed out by Nelson yesterday that this area of the artery is VERY VERY close to the electrical conduction point that starts every beat and regulates the rhythm of the heart beat, known as the SA node. A 90% occlusion of this artery is dangerous, and any increased stressors on the heart (Known heart disease, hypertension, uncontrolled narcotic and stimulant abuse, resisting arrest and fighting against those restraints ) would definitely be causative stressors inducing the heart to struggle and stop.

This blockage, IMO is/was very similar in nature to the stories we may all acquaint with the patient who suddenly collapses while shoveling a heavy wet snow.

Also IMO, the juror who is a Cardiac Nurse knows all of this as well
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yes this report and testimony will make sense to her and I think she will have some strong opinions...I don't know how far the March intervention at HCMC went...I mean he was there for 5 days per Courteney testimony but have to think some sort of angioplasty or procedure may have been suggested at that time. With that situation together with drugs on board clearly everything that happened had a more significant impact on GF than a more healthy individual. I think at the end of the day cause of death was a combination of things and frankly I would not want to have to make decisions based on that. BAsed on what I saw on video and absent any medical testimony (not possible I know) my vote is for min. 3rd and I might go for 2nd.
 
shotgun09 said:
I can agree with the 'time bomb' statement. The 90 % blockage of his Right Coronary Artery ( RCA) was at the Proximal ( beginning ) end of the artery. Also, it was subtly pointed out by Nelson yesterday that this area of the artery is VERY VERY close to the electrical conduction point that starts every beat and regulates the rhythm of the heart beat, known as the SA node. A 90% occlusion of this artery is dangerous, and any increased stressors on the heart (Known heart disease, hypertension, uncontrolled narcotic and stimulant abuse, resisting arrest and fighting against those restraints ) would definitely be causative stressors inducing the heart to struggle and stop.

This blockage, IMO is/was very similar in nature to the stories we may all acquaint with the patient who suddenly collapses while shoveling a heavy wet snow.

Also IMO, the juror who is a Cardiac Nurse knows all of this as well
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The drugs in his system at autopsy were insufficient to cause the event you describe.
4 medical experts have testified already, including dr Baker.
he constantly deferred to their superior skills when asked questions about physiology and anatomical defects present. He deferred to the toxicologist when asked about the quantities and nature of the drugs present.
These experts testified first and all stated they had seen Dr Bakers full report.
 
Gosh, the "hoopin" angle the defense keeps trying to get at is driving me nuts. Floyd was undoubtedly telling the officers that he was playing basketball earlier. I've heard the term literally thousands of times throughout my playing days (through college) and beyond. "Hooper" is also a very common term for someone wh0 plays basketball.

This obviously isn't proof of anything, but here's a clip from a newer netflix documentary where they talk about "hoopers"

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=136437608390749
 
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kittythehare said:
In that case you need to listen to the expert testimonies. That is the source(. I'm an RN with 30 years ICU experience, not that qualifications are relevant to our discussions here.)
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Thank for letting me know it was stated in testimony. Would you know who the witness was so I can look for it? Teaching ALS I’m very interested.

I missed Friday testimony, due to two of my besties having close family die. I’m trying to catch up. Thanks for your help.
 
turaj said:
i doubt these two will see a trial...they will settle out of court...Lane seemed to be the only one with some empathy for GF and tried his best short of tackling his superior to get GF on side....they need to be held accountable but given some slack...at least that is my opinion. Listening to Lane's BCA interview gives a good insight into the "rest of the story". Thao on the other hand needs some serious prison time like Chauvin.
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This isn't a civil trial scheduled for Lane... he cannot "settle out of court" perse. They may plead in court to charge MOO.

Also, I am noting that the defense have pretty much ignored and given up on defending the bottom charge. As are folks here on WS.

Does anyone here think differently that the bottom charge is now a given as to conviction , as appears that most folks are now only discussing top two charges... ?
 
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MsBetsy said:
I would think they would have checked his heart function when he was hospitalized in March following the overdose. They had five days to run all kinds of tests.
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It is curious that the state did have as their expert witnesses, a Pulmonologist , but not a Cardiologist. I anticipate a Cardiologist on the stand for the defense, no doubt.

And, I can imagine that GF was not so compliant to go follow up with requested and suggested appointments with doctors after his discharge from the hospital.
 
dixiegirl1035 said:
@shotgun09

Both the state and defense potential witness lists are in the media/documents/ and timeline thread... MN - George Floyd, 46, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 **Media & Timeline - NO DISCUSSION

brb to get a link for you

ETA:

Thanks to @sds71 for posting this for all to retrieve at at times like now *thank you sds71!* on MT

Defense list
https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/WitnessList02082021.pdf

State’s list
https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...s/27-CR-20-12646/StateWitnessList02082021.pdf
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A HUGE THANK YOU

@dixiegirl1035 and @sds71
 
RANCH said:
I'm certain that we will hear much more about this from the defense. It's obvious to me that the drugs and heart problems could have been a factor in GF's death. It's not a surprise that the State is trying to deflect and minimize those factors because it goes against their case. JMO
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@RANCH

This is MOO what many have said about COVID... and has been discussed for over a year on the WS thread. Saying that there are still many that reflect what this posts states.."I'm certain that we will hear much more about this from the defense. It's obvious to me that the drugs and heart problems could have been a factor in GF's death.. that scientists are" trying to deflect and minimize those factors because it goes against their case"

Bottom line, COVID was COD and underlying contributed to many is analagous to this case.

Doesn't fly MOO Vehemently agree to disagree with post
 
shotgun09 said:
I can agree with the 'time bomb' statement. The 90 % blockage of his Right Coronary Artery ( RCA) was at the Proximal ( beginning ) end of the artery. Also, it was subtly pointed out by Nelson yesterday that this area of the artery is VERY VERY close to the electrical conduction point that starts every beat and regulates the rhythm of the heart beat, known as the SA node. A 90% occlusion of this artery is dangerous, and any increased stressors on the heart (Known heart disease, hypertension, uncontrolled narcotic and stimulant abuse, resisting arrest and fighting against those restraints ) would definitely be causative stressors inducing the heart to struggle and stop.

This blockage, IMO is/was very similar in nature to the stories we may all acquaint with the patient who suddenly collapses while shoveling a heavy wet snow.

Also IMO, the juror who is a Cardiac Nurse knows all of this as well
Click to expand...
Yet he also stated the un-occluded artery would still be able to supply blood to the brain.
 
shotgun09 said:
I can agree with the 'time bomb' statement. The 90 % blockage of his Right Coronary Artery ( RCA) was at the Proximal ( beginning ) end of the artery. Also, it was subtly pointed out by Nelson yesterday that this area of the artery is VERY VERY close to the electrical conduction point that starts every beat and regulates the rhythm of the heart beat, known as the SA node. A 90% occlusion of this artery is dangerous, and any increased stressors on the heart (Known heart disease, hypertension, uncontrolled narcotic and stimulant abuse, resisting arrest and fighting against those restraints ) would definitely be causative stressors inducing the heart to struggle and stop.

This blockage, IMO is/was very similar in nature to the stories we may all acquaint with the patient who suddenly collapses while shoveling a heavy wet snow.

Also IMO, the juror who is a Cardiac Nurse knows all of this as well
Click to expand...
Thank you, that's exactly what I was seeking.

I’m a little shocked the Prosecution didn’t strike her.
 
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dixiegirl1035 said:
Understood, from near the beginning, and as I have learned more.... I do have more understanding of dynamics when it came to Lane..... and his newbie partner Keung. They were both on their first days......
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In a way, Lane was actually pretty brave to speak up about the treatment of GF, when Chauvin was "training" him how to deal with non compliance.

First day on the job, he did confront a senior officer on his treatment of a prisoner in custody.

Poor guy would have been fired if GF had lived. No win.
 
shotgun09 said:
It is curious that the state did have as their expert witnesses, a Pulmonologist , but not a Cardiologist. I anticipate a Cardiologist on the stand for the defense, no doubt.

And, I can imagine that GF was not so compliant to go follow up with requested and suggested appointments with doctors after his discharge from the hospital.
Click to expand...
The cardiology expert will testify on Monday, he is also an expert in Internal medicine. For the prosecution.
 
turaj said:
i doubt these two will see a trial...they will settle out of court...Lane seemed to be the only one with some empathy for GF and tried his best short of tackling his superior to get GF on side....they need to be held accountable but given some slack...at least that is my opinion. Listening to Lane's BCA interview gives a good insight into the "rest of the story". Thao on the other hand needs some serious prison time like Chauvin.
Click to expand...

It may be posted here somewhere, but would you be so kind as to let me know how to watch Lane’s BCA interview please? TIA.
 
MsBetsy said:
I would think they would have checked his heart function when he was hospitalized in March following the overdose. They had five days to run all kinds of tests.
Click to expand...

No. That is not the way "emergency care" works. You get treatment for the ICD diagnosis that got you admitted. Not comprehensive medical treatment or diagnostic tests. That is the way Medicaid works, if Floyd was even eligible for anything.
 
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